Israel - Palestine Conflict Discussion Thread

[garnite 8]

Keywords: When, Recognized, not accept (partition plan)

The day the plan was shown by the UN was suppouse to be the day the 2 states are created. Already-formed states does not need recognition, new-developing states does. The Palestinians (notice how I wrote Palestinian state - not "Palestine") didn't accept the plan therfore never reached the goal of an entity in a status of a "State".

that you recognise a necessity for a palestinian state says a lot though. that means it's not good enough to talk about it not formally existing as if that legitimises occupation. how's it just that they only "get" to be a state on the condition that the land they live on is forcibly divided up to another people? on the condition that they accept a foreign state on top of the place they lived?

[Noam Zioni 1,201]

i'd bomb the sh!t out of israel

but thats just me

Your comment was so not helpful tbh..

If you just came here to hate, you can go, this is a discussion thread :fail:

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

Everything comes back to land ownership....

Are there any land titles or 'individuals' who had their land taken away from them able to claim their property ...

or is it a general consensus that Palestinians own everything that Israel sits on..

Also, more on this historic land ownership argument,

I don't have any archives

once Islamic leaders got a foot hold in government, the Jewish religion was outlawed and any property owned by them was seized by the state, (1930ish) .. Records were destroyed so no surviving family members could reclaim lost property ...

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

i'd bomb the sh!t out of israel

 

but thats just me

That's Hamas actually... not just you.. Israel is doing the only thing they can to stop it from happening.

[Dolev 867]

that you recognise a necessity for a palestinian state says a lot though. that means it's not good enough to talk about it not formally existing as if that legitimises occupation. how's it just that they only "get" to be a state on the condition that the land they live on is forcibly divided up to another people? on the condition that they accept a foreign state on top of the place they lived?

I didn't really get what you said but I'll do my best to answer    I don't think there is someone who really thinks occupation is legitimate, but it is up to debate what will be the borders of the future Palestinian state. I think the 1967' lines are the only real option on the table, looking at the currect situation. Few things that come to mind as possible problems are preventing this from happening. Why should Israel divide its capital city, Jerusalem, after years of wars only because the Arabs rejected the idea of a shared-city at first?

How can we be so sure that what happend with Gaza won't happen with the West Bank? Is there someone in this world who can assure that the new-born state will be peacefull and not a terror-hub just like Gaza became when Israel left? What will happen the day rockets will be fired 20-30 km from Tel Aviv?

Why should Israel evacuate the Jewish people from their homes? Are Jews not allowed in the future-Palestinian state?

[Noam Zioni 1,201]

There's a ceasefire now, but as usual, Hamas keeps shooting mortars into Israel...

[Dolev 867]

Israeli civilian killed by mortar attack minutes ago.

[darkwolf 590]

The land, previously held by the Ottoman Empire, was served for the British by the LN. Was it theirs? no. It was neither belonged with the "native people", as there was never a state called Palestine and the Arabs lived in the whole Middle East with no actual boundaries between them.

 

When Israel declared itself an independent country its government accept the partition plan and recognized the neighboring-Palestinian state, while the same state decided it would not accept any presence of Jewish people in the region and attacked the new-born state, with the help of 6 more countries. Let's stick to facts, if the arabs were not greedy and were to respect the other side as the Jews did, there were 2 states today living by each other. But they were arrogant enough to do the complete opposite, and their status today is only a result of what they started, their fault.

I think we already talked about this, and Palestine as a region existed and there is evidence for that, like the books written in teh 18th/19th century that describe the region. And even if it didn't exist like you pretend, there is no excuse to bring in settlers and establish a country there.

 

As you cited it,  here is what the 1920 LN interim reports says

 

 

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ. Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, orâ€â€a small numberâ€â€are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil.

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

I think we already talked about this, and Palestine as a region existed and there is evidence for that, like the books written in teh 18th/19th century that describe the region. And even if it didn't exist like you pretend, there is no excuse to bring in settlers and establish a country there.

This says it all....Everything else is stalling and diversion to get rid of Israel ... competely

[darkwolf 590]

This says it all....Everything else is stalling and diversion to get rid of Israel ... competely

I did NOT say we should get rid of Israel.

It was a response to someone who completely denies Palestine even existed, and I know many Israeli think just like that.

[EXCXSXE 0]

Israel, Hamas officials say extended cease-fire reached

 

Israeli and Hamas officials say an extended cease-fire has been reached between the sides, halting the seven-week Gaza war which has killed more than 2,000 people.

An Israeli official confirmed the cease-fire to Fox News. A Hamas spokesman also confirmed the deal to Fox News and an Israeli official told The Associated Press that Israel "responded positively" to Egypt's call for an open-ended cease-fire.

Egyptian state media announced that the cease-fire between Israel and Hamas is taking effect Tuesday at 7 p.m. local time, without elaborating.

An Israeli official told The Associated Press that Israel would ease its blockade of Gaza to allow humanitarian and construction materials to enter the war-battered territory.

The official said indirect talks on more substantial issues would begin in Cairo within a month. Issues are expected to include Hamas' demand for an end to the blockade and Israel's calls for Hamas to disarm.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/26/israel-targets-gaza-high-rises-as-egypt-pushes-for-new-talks/

 

  May this one last. 

(My apologies for using Fox news..)

[darkwolf 590]

Israel, Hamas officials say extended cease-fire reached

 

Israeli and Hamas officials say an extended cease-fire has been reached between the sides, halting the seven-week Gaza war which has killed more than 2,000 people.

An Israeli official confirmed the cease-fire to Fox News. A Hamas spokesman also confirmed the deal to Fox News and an Israeli official told The Associated Press that Israel "responded positively" to Egypt's call for an open-ended cease-fire.

Egyptian state media announced that the cease-fire between Israel and Hamas is taking effect Tuesday at 7 p.m. local time, without elaborating.

An Israeli official told The Associated Press that Israel would ease its blockade of Gaza to allow humanitarian and construction materials to enter the war-battered territory.

The official said indirect talks on more substantial issues would begin in Cairo within a month. Issues are expected to include Hamas' demand for an end to the blockade and Israel's calls for Hamas to disarm.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/26/israel-targets-gaza-high-rises-as-egypt-pushes-for-new-talks/

 

  May this one last. 

(My apologies for using Fox news..)

 

Good news! I hope this will be the last cease fire and both parties will start honnest negociations.

[Dolev 867]

I think we already talked about this, and Palestine as a region existed and there is evidence for that, like the books written in teh 18th/19th century that describe the region. And even if it didn't exist like you pretend, there is no excuse to bring in settlers and establish a country there.

 

As you cited it,  here is what the 1920 LN interim reports says

I think we already clarified Palestine was a name given by the Romans after the ancient-local people of "Philistines" who lived by the sea, not even in Palestine of today. Stop twisting facts. Jewish kingdoms existed in the land of Israel long before the Islam was even created, we have the right to claim this land & to build our national home. Settlers are only a result of Arabs refusing to accept Israel at-first and launching wars to destroy the Jewish home.

 

I think we already understood the Jews were minority in Israel before it was established. It's not a secret you know. You're the only one here denying Jewish diaspora actually happend.

[darkwolf 590]

I think we already clarified Palestine was a name given by the Romans after the ancient-local people of "Philistines" who lived by the sea, not even in Palestine of today. Stop twisting facts. Jewish kingdoms existed in the land of Israel long before the Islam was even created, we have the right to claim this land & to build our national home. Settlers are only a result of Arabs refusing to accept Israel at-first and launching wars to destroy the Jewish home.

 

I think we already understood the Jews were minority in Israel before it was established. It's not a secret you know. You're the only one here denying Jewish diaspora actually happend.

Most of the stories about ancient Israel and Israeli tribes are from the bible.....which is far from being a reliable source!

And I think I have already showed you how the idea of Palestine was promised to jews because there used to be a jewish state there 2000 years ago is so stupid. If the jews have been wandering for thousands of years, Palestinians never left actually; I bet they are more descendent of the real ancient Israel than most Israelis. Even your own sources say that the first Israeli king had to fight against the philistines.

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

Israel, Hamas officials say extended cease-fire reached

 

Israeli and Hamas officials say an extended cease-fire has been reached between the sides, halting the seven-week Gaza war which has killed more than 2,000 people.

An Israeli official confirmed the cease-fire to Fox News. A Hamas spokesman also confirmed the deal to Fox News and an Israeli official told The Associated Press that Israel "responded positively" to Egypt's call for an open-ended cease-fire.

Egyptian state media announced that the cease-fire between Israel and Hamas is taking effect Tuesday at 7 p.m. local time, without elaborating.

An Israeli official told The Associated Press that Israel would ease its blockade of Gaza to allow humanitarian and construction materials to enter the war-battered territory.

The official said indirect talks on more substantial issues would begin in Cairo within a month. Issues are expected to include Hamas' demand for an end to the blockade and Israel's calls for Hamas to disarm.nothing can happen till the attacks stop...

Israel is being open minded and I'm betting all reasonable demands can be met.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/26/israel-targets-gaza-high-rises-as-egypt-pushes-for-new-talks/

 

  May this one last. 

(My apologies for using Fox news..)