Israel - Palestine Conflict Discussion Thread

[Jjang 2,262]

i went to a speaking event this evening. the speaker is pro-palestinian and quite controversial. 100+ pro-israeli people protesting the event, screaming at me "scum" and "shame on you" all in unison as i was walking solitary down the street towards the venue holding my ticket to get into the event, and waving huge israel flags (and anti-immigration flags! the irony). just because i went out to hear someone speak about the issue! i laughed at them. it was an enjoyable experience to be yelled at and called scum by hundreds of people i don't know just because i decided to hear another point of view. they were also chanting "bomb bomb palestine".i was also searched with a metal detector and asked to remove everything from my pockets to be pat down searched as well. police were everywhere outside. because apparently i am a terrorist for even attending this event in which a man spoke for an hour about several topics, including the israel-palestine conflict. interesting experience.

Very identical to the radical rights protests here in Israel

[Dolev 867]

What do you think is false in that video? http://bcove.me/v0atbnrf

Tendentious editing

Showing one sides victims

Ignoring the other

Ignoring Hamas as the cause of this war & poverty in Gaza

Hamas is the only one responsible for prefering to put its money over tunnels rather than helping its citizens

That quote was part of the article, I don't think Independent has any reason or benefit to use propaganda for Hamas.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/you-might-not-have-heard-of-the-hannibal-protocol-but-its-behind-one-of-israels-worst-atrocities-yet-9678780.html

150 civilans of Rafah didn't kidnap your soldiers, yet they were attacked without any warning and brutally killed.

Also the so called Hannibal protocol doesn't even secure soldier's life but it's executed in a way that a kidnapped soldier is most likely killed too. So what is the point?

And if Hamas finds a civil home of Israeli commander, where his family lives, is it also a legitimate military target? Are they allowed to kill his wife and kids and claim they were targeting the soldier?

1. Most Euro media is biased & The article is written by Ahron Bregman, an extremely leftist.

2. 150 Rafahians are governed by the people who did. You tend to ignore this.

3. Hannibal protocol is taking a place to prevent cases where a solider is captured and Israel is asked to release thousands of Palestinian murderers in order to get its boy back.

4. No. Israeli soliders are not terrorirsts. Hamas' soliders are. Simple as that.

[Dolev 867]

There are d--g cartels, mafia, and crime syndicates or organizations that operate in the US and other Western nations, yet such groups are handled by law enforcement and corrections. However Latinos, Italians, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, and other nationalities somehow live in peace despite a minority of criminal elements.

If the extremists were prosecuted on trial and sentenced to prisons, it would save so many civilian lives as they would be out of the line of fire of bombs, tank shells, and machine guns.

 

 

The Israeli forces still have superior technology to defend against rockets and wouldn't law enforcement, if territories were shared, rather than military operations reduce collateral on both sides?

I realize there is still the threat of suicide bombers and car bombs, but with more control over the greater borders of the region, perhaps they could keep arms, weapons, and bombs out and protect the lives of both Israelis, Palestinians, and other civilians.

 

Drug cartels are not even half deadly as mini Al Qaeda growing next to you. Hamas is not under Israeli law as the Gaza strip is a different territory. It is under its own laws. 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs who lives in equallity with the Jews citizens.

 

Your comparison is false at first place. You're asking Israel to trial tons of non-citizens like its legal under international law or realistic.

 

Why don't you ask Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups to abandon their violent terror ways of fighting Israel before you ask Israel to tight its soliders over borders as if they won't get killed and the state will be accused again of "APARTHEID1!!!". Israeli intelligence is one of the best in the world and prevents lots of terror attacks, the IDF is arresting terrorists on a regular base, walls and fences were built around Israel to secure its safety and high-tech defense systems such as the Iron Dome were invented in Israel to defend citizens and as a result to lower the flames over this conflict. Also, Israel goes to great lengths to minimize civilian lives loss in Gaza while Hamas does exatcly the opposite. But still, You ask Israel to do more and criticize a state for defending itself while asking it to do exactly the same to prevent the same cases it is defending itself from.

[lego 44,165]

Tendentious editing

Showing one sides victims

Ignoring the other

Ignoring Hamas as the cause of this war & poverty in Gaza

Hamas is the only one responsible for prefering to put its money over tunnels rather than helping its citizens

There were no victims on other side! 150 civilians died and hundreds injured and you sarcastically say "how sad", that just shows you don't consider Palestinians humans. The Hamas excuse for everything is only believable to extremist pro Israelis who are bloodthirsty in this war. The poverty blame on them after the years of seige and controlling their borders, water, air and food?! Shooting at Palestinian fishermen randomly after reducing the space from where they could feed their families?

1. Most Euro media is biased & The article is written by Ahron Bregman, an extremely leftist.

2. 150 Rafahians are governed by the people who did. You tend to ignore this.

3. Hannibal protocol is taking a place to prevent cases where a solider is captured and Israel is asked to release thousands of Palestinian murderers in order to get its boy back.

4. No. Israeli soliders are not terrorirsts. Hamas' soliders are. Simple as that.

Euro media is "biased" only when they don't write in your favour. They have more interest to defend Israel than to defend Palestine, but some things are indefensible. You lost a lot supporters, even Holocaust survivors are distancing themselves and condemning what Israel is doing.

So you just think murdering civilians is ok when the "evil ones" are on power in their city or area? How vile. Then whole Israel is legitimate target since it's ruled by war criminal Netanyahu and terrorist Likud party.

Hannibal protocol is just murdering everything that moves including your own soldier. You would rather see him dead than released for exchange.

Israeli soldiers are indeed terrorists. They are spreading terror and opression in both Gaza and West Bank. They are babykillers. They are deliberatelly targeting civilians and drawing cartoons to justify it.

And if you don't think you need to follow Geneva convention and laws of war because of Hamas, then any civil home with families of your soldiers are legitimate targets too. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[darkwolf 590]

Drug cartels are not even half deadly as mini Al Qaeda growing next to you. Hamas is not under Israeli law as the Gaza strip is a different territory. It is under its own laws. 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs who lives in equallity with the Jews citizens.

 

Your comparison is false at first place. You're asking Israel to trial tons of non-citizens like its legal under international law or realistic.

 

Why don't you ask Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups to abandon their violent terror ways of fighting Israel before you ask Israel to tight its soliders over borders as if they won't get killed and the state will be accused again of "APARTHEID1!!!". Israeli intelligence is one of the best in the world and prevents lots of terror attacks, the IDF is arresting terrorists on a regular base, walls and fences were built around Israel to secure its safety and high-tech defense systems such as the Iron Dome were invented in Israel to defend citizens and as a result to lower the flames over this conflict. Also, Israel goes to great lengths to minimize civilian lives loss in Gaza while Hamas does exatcly the opposite. But still, You ask Israel to do more and criticize a state for defending itself while asking it to do exactly the same to prevent the same cases it is defending itself from.

- But still Israel controls EVERYTHING in Gaza: borders, airspace, money transfers, calories intake.....

- Now you care about international law, you think killing civilians who took shelter at a UN school is legal?

- Every occupied people have the right to fight against their occupier, even the UN recognizes that right. And in the past Israel used the same things you are blaming Palestinians for. What abot teh west bank where there is no hamas, is it independant now? did the 500000 Israelis settlers leave? NO

[Versace 8,080]

FREE PALESTINE

[lego 44,165]

Drug cartels are not even half deadly as mini Al Qaeda growing next to you. 

 

 

This attempt to intimidate Westerners/Americans by generalizing and equating Al-Qaeda and ISIS with Hamas (as your PM did) is pathetic, tiring and superficial. People are not stupid. Just because someone shares religion, doesn't mean they have same motives and views. 

 

20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs who lives in equallity with the Jews citizens.

 

 

Is it like that, in practice and reality?

 

 

Most Arabs can't buy most homes in West Jerusalem

Haaretz investigation: Houses in Jerusalem are built on lands which cannot be sold to Palestinians.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/most-arabs-can-t-buy-most-homes-in-west-jerusalem-1.280392

 

Discrimination against Israeli Arabs still rampant, 10 years on

Ten years after report on October 2000 riots, in which 13 were killed, the state has failed to implement antidiscrimination measures that would reestablish just relations between Jews and Arabs in Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.550152

 

Survey: Who suffers from racism in Israel?

Ethiopians, Arabs and the ultra-Orthodox among the groups which public believes are the most discriminated against.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Survey-Who-suffers-from-racism-in-Israel-345603

 

Israeli teenagers: Racist and proud of it

Ethnic hatred has become a basic element in the everyday life of Israeli youth, a forthcoming book finds.

Members of right-wing organization Lehava protesting the wedding of a Jewish-born woman and a Muslim man in Rishon Letzion, Augu... / Photo by Ofer Vaknin

 

“For me, personally, Arabs are something I can’t look at and can’t stand,†a 10th-grade girl from a high school in the central part of the country says in abominable Hebrew. “I am tremendously racist. I come from a racist home. If I get the chance in the army to shoot one of them, I won’t think twice. I’m ready to kill someone with my hands, and it’s an Arab. In my education I learned that ... their education is to be terrorists, and there is no belief in them. I live in an area of Arabs, and every day I see these Ishmaelites, who pass by the [bus] station and whistle. I wish them death.â€

The student’s comments appear in a chapter devoted to ethnicity and racism among youth from a forthcoming book, “Scenes from School Life†(in Hebrew) by Idan Yaron and Yoram Harpaz. The book is based on anthropological observations made by Dr. Yaron, a sociologist, over the course of three years in a six-year, secular high school in the Israeli heartland – “the most average school we could find,†says Harpaz, a professor of education.

 

The book is nothing short of a page-turner, especially now, following the overt displays of racism and hatred of the Other that have been revealed in the country in the past month or so. Maybe “revealed†isn’t the right word, as it suggests surprise at the intensity of the phenomenon. But Yaron’s descriptions of what he saw at the school show that such hatred is a basic everyday element among youth, and a key component of their identity. Yaron portrays the hatred without rose-colored glasses or any attempt to present it as a sign of social “unity.†What he observed is unfiltered hatred. One conclusion that arises from the text is how little the education system is able – or wants – to deal with the racism problem.

Not all educators are indifferent or ineffective. There are, of course, teachers and others in the realm of education who adopt a different approach, who dare to try and take on the system. But they are a minority. The system’s internal logic operates differently.

 

Much of the chapter on racism revolves around the Bible lessons in a ninth-grade class, whose theme was revenge. “The class starts, and the students’ suggestions of examples of revenge are written on the blackboard,†the teacher told Yaron. A student named Yoav “insists that revenge is an important emotion. He utilizes the material being studied to hammer home his semi-covert message: All the Arabs should be killed. The class goes into an uproar. Five students agree with Yoav and say openly: The Arabs should be killed.â€

One student relates that he heard in the synagogue on Shabbat that “Aravim zeh erev rav†[“Arabs are a rabble,†in a play on words], and also Amalek, and there is a commandment to kill them all,†a reference to the prototypical biblical enemy of the Children of Israel. Another student says he would take revenge on anyone who murdered his family, but would not kill them all.

“Some of the other students are outraged by this [softer stance],†the teacher reported. “The student then makes it clear that he has no love for Arabs and that he is not a leftist.â€

 

Another student, Michal, says she is shocked by what she is hearing. She believes that the desire for revenge will only foment a cycle of blood; not all Arabs are bad, she adds, and certainly they don’t all deserve to die. “People who decree the fate of others so easily are not worthy of life,†she says.

Yoav himself claims to have heard Michal say: “Too bad you weren’t killed in a terrorist attack.â€

“The students all start shouting,†the teacher says, according to Yaron. “Some are personally insulted, others are up in arms, and Michal finds herself alone and absorbing all the fire – ‘Arab lover,’ ‘leftist.’ I try to calm things down. The class is too distraught to move on to the biblical story. The bell rings. I let them out and suggest that they be more tolerant of one another.â€

 

In the corridor during the break, the teacher notices that a crowd has gathered from all the ninth-grade classes. They have formed a human chain and are taunting Michal: “Fie, fie, fie, the Arabs will die.†The teacher: “I contemplated for five seconds whether to respond or keep going down the corridor. Finally I dispersed the gathering and insisted that Michal accompany me to the teachers’ room. She was in a state of shock, reeling under the insult, with tears to come instantly.â€

Six students are suspended for two days. The teacher reports on his conversation with Michal: “She continues to be laconic. This is what always happens, she says. The opinions are racist, and her only regret is speaking out. I just want to hug her and say I’m sorry I put her through this trauma. I envy her courage to say aloud things that I sometimes am incapable of saying.â€

 

Leftists as ‘Israel-haters’

 

In his research, Yaron spoke with Michal and Yoav, with other students in the class and with the homeroom teacher and the principal. The multiplicity of versions of the goings-on that emerge suggest a deep conflict and a lack of trust between the educators and the pupils. Each world functions separately, with the adults exercising little if any influence on the youngsters. It’s hard to believe that the suspension, or the punishment inflicted on some of the students – for example, to prepare a presentation for the ninth-grade classes on the subject of racism – changed anyone’s opinion.

The same goes for the principal’s unequivocal declaration that, “There will be no racist comments in our school.†Even the essay Michal was asked to write on the subject was soon forgotten. “The intention was to launch an educational program, but in the meantime it was postponed,†the homeroom teacher admits.

A year later, however, the incident itself was still remembered in the school. The same student who told Yaron that she won’t think twice if she gets the opportunity “to shoot one of them†when she serves in the army, also said, “As soon as I heard about the quarrel with that leftist girl [Michal], I was ready to throw a brick at her head and kill her. In my opinion, all the leftists are Israel-haters. I personally find it very painful. Those people have no place in our country – both the Arabs and the leftists.â€

Anyone who imagines this as a local, passing outburst is wrong. As was the case with the girl from the ORT network vocational school who alleged earlier this year that her teacher had expressed “left-wing views†in the classroom – in this case too a student related that he cursed and shouted at a teacher who “justified the Arabs.†The students say that workshops to combat racism, which are run by an outside organization, leave little impression. “Racism is part of our life, no matter how much people say it’s bad,†a student said.

In the concluding discussion in just one such workshop, the moderator asked the students how they thought racism might eradicated. “Thin out the Arabs,†was the immediate reply. “I want you to leave here with the knowledge that the phenomenon exists, for you to be self-critical, and then maybe you will prevent it,†the moderator said. To which one student shot back, “If we’re not racist, that makes us leftists.â€

The moderator, in a tone of despair: “I’d like it if you took at least something small from this workshop.†A student responds to the challenge: “That everyone should live the way he wants, that if he thinks he’s racist, let him think what he wants, and that’s all.â€

As an adjunct of racism and hatred, ethnic identities – Mizrahi (Jews from Middle Eastern and North African countries) and Ashkenazi – are also flourishing. Yoav believes that there is “discrimination between Mizrahim and Ashkenazim. We were severely punished for the incident [with Michal], but if it were the other way around, that wouldn’t have happened.†Yoav later told Yaron that he found the common saying, “What’s this, an [open-air] market?†offensive, because his whole family works in the local produce market.

“Our business has existed since the state was established,†he said. “I am proud of my father, who is a man of the market. What are they trying to say, that my father isn’t cultured? When people say something about ‘Arabs,’ it’s considered a generalization, but when they say ‘market,’ that’s alright. When people say ‘market,’ they are actually talking about Mizrahim. We need to change the prejudices about the market and about the Mizrahim. People say I am a racist, but it’s just the opposite.â€

“There is no discussion about the topic of racism in the school and there probably will not be,†the principal admits. “We are not prepared for the deep, long-term process that’s necessary. Even though I am constantly aware of the problem, it is far from being dealt with. It stems in the first place from the home, the community and the society, and it’s hard for us to cope with it. You have to remember that another reason it’s hard to deal with the problem is that it also exists among the teachers. Issues such as ‘human dignity’ or ‘humanism’ are in any case considered left-wing, and anyone who addresses them is considered tainted.â€

Threat of noise

Prof. Yoram Harpaz is a senior lecturer at Beit Berl Teachers College and the editor of Hed Hahinuch, a major educational journal. Recalling the recent promise of Education Minister Shay Piron that classes in the first two weeks of the coming school year will be devoted to “emotional and social aspects of the summer’s events,†including “manifestations of racism and incitement,†Harpaz observes that schools in their present format “are incapable of dealing with the racist personality and identity.â€

He adds: “The schools are not geared for this. They can only impart basic knowledge and skills, hold examinations on them and grade the students. In fact, they have a hard time doing even that. In classes of 40 students, with a strict curriculum and exams that have to be held, it is impossible to engage in values-based education.â€

Yaron, a senior lecturer in sociology at Ashkelon Academic College, emphasizes how important teachers and the principal (and the education system in general) feel it is to stick to the curriculum and the lessons schedule – two islands of quiet amid a risk-laden reality.

“Doing this makes it possible for the teachers not to enter a dynamic sphere, which obligates openness and is liable to open a Pandora’s box, too,†he notes. “The greatest threat to the teacher is that there will be noise – that someone will complain, that an argument will break out, etc. That danger looms especially large in subjects that interest young people, such as s-xuality, ethnicity, violence and racism. Teachers lack the tools to cope with these issues, so they are outsourced, which only emasculates educational personnel even more.â€

The demand for quiet in the schools is not only an instrumental matter, deriving from the difficulty of keeping order in the classroom. There is also an ideological aspect involved. In general, there is a whole series of subjects that are not recommended for discussion in schools, such as the Nakba (or “catastrophe,†the term used by Palestinians to denote the establishment of the State of Israel), human rights and the morality of Israeli army operations. This was one of the reasons for the warnings issued by Tel Aviv University and Ben-Gurion University of the Negev during the fighting in the Gaza Strip about “extreme and offensive remarks.â€

Harpaz: “In Israel, the most political country there is, political education has not been developed as a discipline in which high-school students are taught how to think critically about political attitudes, or the fact that those attitudes are always dependent on a particular viewpoint and on vested interests.â€

What, then, can be done? According to Harpaz, the solution will not be found in discussions between the homeroom teacher and the students. Nor is a condemnation, however late, by the education minister sufficient. A more radical change is needed.

“Values and outlooks are acquired in a lengthy process of identification with ‘significant others,’ such as teachers,†Harpaz explains. “This means that every aspect of the schools – patterns of teaching, evaluation methods, curricula, the physical structure and the cultural climate – has to change in the direction of becoming far more dialogical and democratic.â€

And he has one more recommendation: not to flee from political and moral dilemmas, or from possible criticism. “Our leaders are so fearful of criticism, but they don’t understand that critical education is what generates close ties and caring. We get angry at those we love.â€

 

 

http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.611822?v=C1FFA498A4B3F60AC8696D3A46E2F4D2

[lego 44,165]

FREE PALESTINE

 

 

[Dolev 867]

There were no victims on other side! 150 civilians died and hundreds injured and you sarcastically say "how sad", that just shows you don't consider Palestinians humans. The Hamas excuse for everything is only believable to extremist pro Israelis who are bloodthirsty in this war. The poverty blame on them after the years of seige and controlling their borders, water, air and food?! Shooting at Palestinian fishermen randomly after reducing the space from where they could feed their families?

 

 

Euro media is "biased" only when they don't write in your favour. They have more interest to defend Israel than to defend Palestine, but some things are indefensible. You lost a lot supporters, even Holocaust survivors are distancing themselves and condemning what Israel is doing.

So you just think murdering civilians is ok when the "evil ones" are on power in their city or area? How vile. Then whole Israel is legitimate target since it's ruled by war criminal Netanyahu and terrorist Likud party.

Hannibal protocol is just murdering everything that moves including your own soldier. You would rather see him dead than released for exchange.

Israeli soldiers are indeed terrorists. They are spreading terror and opression in both Gaza and West Bank. They are babykillers. They are deliberatelly targeting civilians and drawing cartoons to justify it.

And if you don't think you need to follow Geneva convention and laws of war because of Hamas, then any civil home with families of your soldiers are legitimate targets too. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

Are you sure there were no victims? 

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/hadar-goldin-hannibal-directive

Don't put words in my mouth, I really don't have to repeat myself that often. The "Hamas" is not an excuse, Hamas is the cause.

Please provide real-examples for your claims if you want me to take them seriously.

 

Euro media is biased, just like world-wide media. There's not much sympathy for Israel like there's for Gaza and its not a secret. Media loves drama and Hamas provides the best of it.

And why are you acting like all Jews are suppose to be in favour of Israel and if they don't then it must mean Israel is wrong? 

 

Netanyahu is not a terrorirst, if it was so then Israel would have look just like Gaza. I won't even bother arguing about the rest, its clear which sides backwardness leads to terror.

Simple question, does Hamas respects international law?

- But still Israel controls EVERYTHING in Gaza: borders, airspace, money transfers, calories intake.....

- Now you care about international law, you think killing civilians who took shelter at a UN school is legal?

- Every occupied people have the right to fight against their occupier, even the UN recognizes that right. And in the past Israel used the same things you are blaming Palestinians for. What abot teh west bank where there is no hamas, is it independant now? did the 500000 Israelis settlers leave? NO

- The Gaza strip borders Egypt as well. Money transfer is total bull**** as Hamas use the Islamic bank. Calories intake... Do you really believe that? what's next? concentration camps?

- I always care about the international law. You firing rockets from a UN school where people took shelter is legal?

- Does Abu-Mazen fight Israel in a violent way? Why can the PLO handle Israel diplomaticly and Hamas cannot? This conflict won't be solved by militants, only by agreements. What did Israel use? provide examples.

Can you assure the West Bank won't turn into Hamas-Land 2.0 the moment Israel will withdraw (with Tel Aviv becoming a daily-regular target for rockets), just like what happen in Gaza? Admit it, the Arab world is a mess.

[Dolev 867]

This attempt to intimidate Westerners/Americans by generalizing and equating Al-Qaeda and ISIS with Hamas (as your PM did) is pathetic, tiring and superficial. People are not stupid. Just because someone shares religion, doesn't mean they have same motives and views. 

 

 

Is it like that, in practice and reality?

 

 

Most Arabs can't buy most homes in West Jerusalem

Haaretz investigation: Houses in Jerusalem are built on lands which cannot be sold to Palestinians.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/most-arabs-can-t-buy-most-homes-in-west-jerusalem-1.280392

 

Discrimination against Israeli Arabs still rampant, 10 years on

Ten years after report on October 2000 riots, in which 13 were killed, the state has failed to implement antidiscrimination measures that would reestablish just relations between Jews and Arabs in Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.550152

 

Survey: Who suffers from racism in Israel?

Ethiopians, Arabs and the ultra-Orthodox among the groups which public believes are the most discriminated against.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Survey-Who-suffers-from-racism-in-Israel-345603

 

Israeli teenagers: Racist and proud of it

Ethnic hatred has become a basic element in the everyday life of Israeli youth, a forthcoming book finds.

Members of right-wing organization Lehava protesting the wedding of a Jewish-born woman and a Muslim man in Rishon Letzion, Augu... / Photo by Ofer Vaknin

 

“For me, personally, Arabs are something I can’t look at and can’t stand,†a 10th-grade girl from a high school in the central part of the country says in abominable Hebrew. “I am tremendously racist. I come from a racist home. If I get the chance in the army to shoot one of them, I won’t think twice. I’m ready to kill someone with my hands, and it’s an Arab. In my education I learned that ... their education is to be terrorists, and there is no belief in them. I live in an area of Arabs, and every day I see these Ishmaelites, who pass by the [bus] station and whistle. I wish them death.â€

The student’s comments appear in a chapter devoted to ethnicity and racism among youth from a forthcoming book, “Scenes from School Life†(in Hebrew) by Idan Yaron and Yoram Harpaz. The book is based on anthropological observations made by Dr. Yaron, a sociologist, over the course of three years in a six-year, secular high school in the Israeli heartland – “the most average school we could find,†says Harpaz, a professor of education.

 

The book is nothing short of a page-turner, especially now, following the overt displays of racism and hatred of the Other that have been revealed in the country in the past month or so. Maybe “revealed†isn’t the right word, as it suggests surprise at the intensity of the phenomenon. But Yaron’s descriptions of what he saw at the school show that such hatred is a basic everyday element among youth, and a key component of their identity. Yaron portrays the hatred without rose-colored glasses or any attempt to present it as a sign of social “unity.†What he observed is unfiltered hatred. One conclusion that arises from the text is how little the education system is able – or wants – to deal with the racism problem.

Not all educators are indifferent or ineffective. There are, of course, teachers and others in the realm of education who adopt a different approach, who dare to try and take on the system. But they are a minority. The system’s internal logic operates differently.

 

Much of the chapter on racism revolves around the Bible lessons in a ninth-grade class, whose theme was revenge. “The class starts, and the students’ suggestions of examples of revenge are written on the blackboard,†the teacher told Yaron. A student named Yoav “insists that revenge is an important emotion. He utilizes the material being studied to hammer home his semi-covert message: All the Arabs should be killed. The class goes into an uproar. Five students agree with Yoav and say openly: The Arabs should be killed.â€

One student relates that he heard in the synagogue on Shabbat that “Aravim zeh erev rav†[“Arabs are a rabble,†in a play on words], and also Amalek, and there is a commandment to kill them all,†a reference to the prototypical biblical enemy of the Children of Israel. Another student says he would take revenge on anyone who murdered his family, but would not kill them all.

“Some of the other students are outraged by this [softer stance],†the teacher reported. “The student then makes it clear that he has no love for Arabs and that he is not a leftist.â€

 

Another student, Michal, says she is shocked by what she is hearing. She believes that the desire for revenge will only foment a cycle of blood; not all Arabs are bad, she adds, and certainly they don’t all deserve to die. “People who decree the fate of others so easily are not worthy of life,†she says.

Yoav himself claims to have heard Michal say: “Too bad you weren’t killed in a terrorist attack.â€

“The students all start shouting,†the teacher says, according to Yaron. “Some are personally insulted, others are up in arms, and Michal finds herself alone and absorbing all the fire – ‘Arab lover,’ ‘leftist.’ I try to calm things down. The class is too distraught to move on to the biblical story. The bell rings. I let them out and suggest that they be more tolerant of one another.â€

 

In the corridor during the break, the teacher notices that a crowd has gathered from all the ninth-grade classes. They have formed a human chain and are taunting Michal: “Fie, fie, fie, the Arabs will die.†The teacher: “I contemplated for five seconds whether to respond or keep going down the corridor. Finally I dispersed the gathering and insisted that Michal accompany me to the teachers’ room. She was in a state of shock, reeling under the insult, with tears to come instantly.â€

Six students are suspended for two days. The teacher reports on his conversation with Michal: “She continues to be laconic. This is what always happens, she says. The opinions are racist, and her only regret is speaking out. I just want to hug her and say I’m sorry I put her through this trauma. I envy her courage to say aloud things that I sometimes am incapable of saying.â€

 

Leftists as ‘Israel-haters’

 

In his research, Yaron spoke with Michal and Yoav, with other students in the class and with the homeroom teacher and the principal. The multiplicity of versions of the goings-on that emerge suggest a deep conflict and a lack of trust between the educators and the pupils. Each world functions separately, with the adults exercising little if any influence on the youngsters. It’s hard to believe that the suspension, or the punishment inflicted on some of the students – for example, to prepare a presentation for the ninth-grade classes on the subject of racism – changed anyone’s opinion.

The same goes for the principal’s unequivocal declaration that, “There will be no racist comments in our school.†Even the essay Michal was asked to write on the subject was soon forgotten. “The intention was to launch an educational program, but in the meantime it was postponed,†the homeroom teacher admits.

A year later, however, the incident itself was still remembered in the school. The same student who told Yaron that she won’t think twice if she gets the opportunity “to shoot one of them†when she serves in the army, also said, “As soon as I heard about the quarrel with that leftist girl [Michal], I was ready to throw a brick at her head and kill her. In my opinion, all the leftists are Israel-haters. I personally find it very painful. Those people have no place in our country – both the Arabs and the leftists.â€

Anyone who imagines this as a local, passing outburst is wrong. As was the case with the girl from the ORT network vocational school who alleged earlier this year that her teacher had expressed “left-wing views†in the classroom – in this case too a student related that he cursed and shouted at a teacher who “justified the Arabs.†The students say that workshops to combat racism, which are run by an outside organization, leave little impression. “Racism is part of our life, no matter how much people say it’s bad,†a student said.

In the concluding discussion in just one such workshop, the moderator asked the students how they thought racism might eradicated. “Thin out the Arabs,†was the immediate reply. “I want you to leave here with the knowledge that the phenomenon exists, for you to be self-critical, and then maybe you will prevent it,†the moderator said. To which one student shot back, “If we’re not racist, that makes us leftists.â€

The moderator, in a tone of despair: “I’d like it if you took at least something small from this workshop.†A student responds to the challenge: “That everyone should live the way he wants, that if he thinks he’s racist, let him think what he wants, and that’s all.â€

As an adjunct of racism and hatred, ethnic identities – Mizrahi (Jews from Middle Eastern and North African countries) and Ashkenazi – are also flourishing. Yoav believes that there is “discrimination between Mizrahim and Ashkenazim. We were severely punished for the incident [with Michal], but if it were the other way around, that wouldn’t have happened.†Yoav later told Yaron that he found the common saying, “What’s this, an [open-air] market?†offensive, because his whole family works in the local produce market.

“Our business has existed since the state was established,†he said. “I am proud of my father, who is a man of the market. What are they trying to say, that my father isn’t cultured? When people say something about ‘Arabs,’ it’s considered a generalization, but when they say ‘market,’ that’s alright. When people say ‘market,’ they are actually talking about Mizrahim. We need to change the prejudices about the market and about the Mizrahim. People say I am a racist, but it’s just the opposite.â€

“There is no discussion about the topic of racism in the school and there probably will not be,†the principal admits. “We are not prepared for the deep, long-term process that’s necessary. Even though I am constantly aware of the problem, it is far from being dealt with. It stems in the first place from the home, the community and the society, and it’s hard for us to cope with it. You have to remember that another reason it’s hard to deal with the problem is that it also exists among the teachers. Issues such as ‘human dignity’ or ‘humanism’ are in any case considered left-wing, and anyone who addresses them is considered tainted.â€

Threat of noise

Prof. Yoram Harpaz is a senior lecturer at Beit Berl Teachers College and the editor of Hed Hahinuch, a major educational journal. Recalling the recent promise of Education Minister Shay Piron that classes in the first two weeks of the coming school year will be devoted to “emotional and social aspects of the summer’s events,†including “manifestations of racism and incitement,†Harpaz observes that schools in their present format “are incapable of dealing with the racist personality and identity.â€

He adds: “The schools are not geared for this. They can only impart basic knowledge and skills, hold examinations on them and grade the students. In fact, they have a hard time doing even that. In classes of 40 students, with a strict curriculum and exams that have to be held, it is impossible to engage in values-based education.â€

Yaron, a senior lecturer in sociology at Ashkelon Academic College, emphasizes how important teachers and the principal (and the education system in general) feel it is to stick to the curriculum and the lessons schedule – two islands of quiet amid a risk-laden reality.

“Doing this makes it possible for the teachers not to enter a dynamic sphere, which obligates openness and is liable to open a Pandora’s box, too,†he notes. “The greatest threat to the teacher is that there will be noise – that someone will complain, that an argument will break out, etc. That danger looms especially large in subjects that interest young people, such as s-xuality, ethnicity, violence and racism. Teachers lack the tools to cope with these issues, so they are outsourced, which only emasculates educational personnel even more.â€

The demand for quiet in the schools is not only an instrumental matter, deriving from the difficulty of keeping order in the classroom. There is also an ideological aspect involved. In general, there is a whole series of subjects that are not recommended for discussion in schools, such as the Nakba (or “catastrophe,†the term used by Palestinians to denote the establishment of the State of Israel), human rights and the morality of Israeli army operations. This was one of the reasons for the warnings issued by Tel Aviv University and Ben-Gurion University of the Negev during the fighting in the Gaza Strip about “extreme and offensive remarks.â€

Harpaz: “In Israel, the most political country there is, political education has not been developed as a discipline in which high-school students are taught how to think critically about political attitudes, or the fact that those attitudes are always dependent on a particular viewpoint and on vested interests.â€

What, then, can be done? According to Harpaz, the solution will not be found in discussions between the homeroom teacher and the students. Nor is a condemnation, however late, by the education minister sufficient. A more radical change is needed.

“Values and outlooks are acquired in a lengthy process of identification with ‘significant others,’ such as teachers,†Harpaz explains. “This means that every aspect of the schools – patterns of teaching, evaluation methods, curricula, the physical structure and the cultural climate – has to change in the direction of becoming far more dialogical and democratic.â€

And he has one more recommendation: not to flee from political and moral dilemmas, or from possible criticism. “Our leaders are so fearful of criticism, but they don’t understand that critical education is what generates close ties and caring. We get angry at those we love.â€

 

 

http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.611822?v=C1FFA498A4B3F60AC8696D3A46E2F4D2

 

 

I thought we already agreed that racisim exists everywhere (Especially in the Islamic world, where Mein Kampf is a best-seller). Equality is assured in Israel by laws.  :) Haaretz is generalizing millions of Israeli teenagers living the conflict anyday since they were born. Their friends and familys were killed by Palestinians, isn't it understandable why hate exists? It's just like with Palestinian people hating Israelis for this conflict. Don't make a fool out of yourself.

 

Reading the Jerusalem Post article you dramatically attached miss Lego, you should have notice the following paragraph:

 

Article 19 of the ILA lease specifies that a foreign national cannot lease - much less own - ILA land.

Any foreign national. Not exclusively Palestinians. Please find some better arguments.

[lego 44,165]

Are you sure there were no victims? 

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/hadar-goldin-hannibal-directive

So israeli soldiers are considered victims in this war and especially in this massacre which they caused by themselves? and why would people filming injured in hospital show how many Israeli soldiers died, are we suppose to feel sorry for them?

 

 

 

Don't put words in my mouth, I really don't have to repeat myself that often. The "Hamas" is not an excuse, Hamas is the cause.

Please provide real-examples for your claims if you want me to take them seriously.

Do you think this idf cartoon in Paint is the real example or proof of anything?

Again hypocrisy in showing that they should build schools and hospitals when you bomb them every 2-3 years and leave thousands homeless.

 

Palestine has right to resistance against people who did this:

 

WARNING GRAPHIC

 

Euro media is biased, just like world-wide media. There's not much sympathy for Israel like there's for Gaza and its not a secret. Media loves drama and Hamas provides the best of it.

And why are you acting like all Jews are suppose to be in favour of Israel and if they don't then it must mean Israel is wrong?

 

Drama? You are calling bombing and killing civilians - drama?

Of course you are in wrong, the fact they you are too blind with extremism and nationalism to see it, is your own fault.

 

Netanyahu is not a terrorirst, if it was so then Israel would have look just like Gaza. I won't even bother arguing about the rest, its clear which sides backwardness leads to terror.

Yes he is. Just like Gaza? It's Israeli state's fault that Gaza is how it is now. He's not killing his own kind, but his terrorizing and killing Palestinians.

He is a war criminal.

Backwardness? Should we talk about extremist religious settlers and their backwardness and aggressiveness? Give me a break.

[Jjang 2,262]

 

 

I thought we already agreed that racisim exists everywhere (Especially in the Islamic world, where Mein Kampf is a best-seller). Equality is assured in Israel by laws.  :) Haaretz is generalizing millions of Israeli teenagers living the conflict anyday since they were born. Their friends and familys were killed by Palestinians, isn't it understandable why hate exists? It's just like with Palestinian people hating Israelis for this conflict. Don't make a fool out of yourself.

 

Reading the Jerusalem Post article you dramatically attached miss Lego, you should have notice the following paragraph:

Any foreign national. Not exclusively Palestinians. Please find some better arguments.

*What hate are you talking about? cause I don't find it understandable, elaborate please.

[Shadow 6,697]

Drug cartels are not even half deadly as mini Al Qaeda growing next to you. Hamas is not under Israeli law as the Gaza strip is a different territory. It is under its own laws. 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs who lives in equality with the Jews citizens.

Your comparison is false at first place. You're asking Israel to trial tons of non-citizens like its legal under international law or realistic.

Why don't you ask Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups to abandon their violent terror ways of fighting Israel before you ask Israel to tight its soldiers over borders as if they won't get killed and the state will be accused again of "APARTHEID1!!!". Israeli intelligence is one of the best in the world and prevents lots of terror attacks, the IDF is arresting terrorists on a regular base, walls and fences were built around Israel to secure its safety and high-tech defense systems such as the Iron Dome were invented in Israel to defend citizens and as a result to lower the flames over this conflict. Also, Israel goes to great lengths to minimize civilian lives loss in Gaza while Hamas does exactly the opposite. But still, You ask Israel to do more and criticize a state for defending itself while asking it to do exactly the same to prevent the same cases it is defending itself from.

You think d--g cartels are not as deadly as Hamas?

If you even read the news in the US, you'd know how dangerous it is on the US/Mexican border if you cross hairs with the d--g black market. People lose their fingers, eyes, legs, arms, , and there is always the threat of rape, torture, and murder of entire families... They are ruthless with a cause rooted in money and power...

Western nations also deal with terrorists and extremist groups, they are also met with law enforcement or deadly force if the situation calls for it. No need to bomb buildings when you can send in SWAT and tactical teams to deal with the root of the problem and that is individuals who plan to threaten the population.

I'm asking for both Israelis and Palestinians to go back to the table and talk this over like rational human beings. There must be a mutual solution that does not end in bloodshed to get what both parties want. If it's land we're talking about, why is it so hard to share the land like those of similar cultural background do elsewhere across the globe? Even you say that there are Israeli Arabs within your borders who live in peace. How are those Arabs different from those in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip? The day you acknowledge that they are people who deserve the same type of peace and prosperity you seek for your people is the day you might know where they are coming from. And maybe they might come to respect and understand you as well.

Introspection, empathy, and understanding others and their needs is the path to finding peace with our fellow man. Maybe if we stop pointing the finger and think about what we can do to contribute to peace than hate or war, the whole concept for the Promise Land might even bear fruit in time.

It doesn't have to be perfect. Even developed, advanced nations have their problems to resolve, but people do their best to survive and thrive without bombs or mortals going off.

[lego 44,165]

 

I thought we already agreed that racisim exists everywhere (Especially in the Islamic world, where Mein Kampf is a best-seller). Equality is assured in Israel by laws.  :) Haaretz is generalizing millions of Israeli teenagers living the conflict anyday since they were born. Their friends and familys were killed by Palestinians, isn't it understandable why hate exists? It's just like with Palestinian people hating Israelis for this conflict. Don't make a fool out of yourself.

 

Reading the Jerusalem Post article you dramatically attached miss Lego, you should have notice the following paragraph:

Any foreign national. Not exclusively Palestinians. Please find some better arguments.

 

 

That paragraph makes your country's image much worse.

 

It's not Haaretz, it's a book, a study. And these are the future idf soldiers. The fact that you justify them instead of condemning and working on eliminating discrimination and racial hatred among Israeli youth, says a lot. 

 

This kind of racism comes from the top, from the political figures, from your army to ordinary people, then to kids. 

There are more Palestinians who's family and friends were killed by Israeli soldiers yet they have friends among Israeli Jewish lawyers and activist who are helping them against illegal settlers.

 

You are claiming that Arabs have all the same rights in Israel as Jews, when in reality they do not. And not only Arabs.

 

 

 

and if you want to play with Paint and Word again

 

@StanleyCohenLaw: ISIS is more principled than Israel."   They look the same to me.

 

 

^^^^

This is coming from a Jewish lawyer from NY.

 

 

 

 

 

Elizabeth Tsurkov â€@Elizrael  Aug 21

Hamas is not ISIS. Hamas is willing to negotiate with Israel indirectly. ISIS rejected mediation even with fellow jihadists.

[Dolev 867]

So israeli soldiers are considered victims in this war and especially in this massacre which they caused by themselves? and why would people filming injured in hospital show how many Israeli soldiers died, are we suppose to feel sorry for them?

 

 

 

Do you think this idf cartoon in Paint is the real example or proof of anything?

Again hypocrisy in showing that they should build schools and hospitals when you bomb them every 2-3 years and leave thousands homeless.

 

Palestine has right to resistance against people who did this:

 

WARNING GRAPHIC

 

 

Drama? You are calling bombing and killing civilians - drama?

Of course you are in wrong, the fact they you are too blind with extremism and nationalism to see it, is your own fault.

 

Yes he is. Just like Gaza? It's Israeli state's fault that Gaza is how it is now. He's not killing his own kind, but his terrorizing and killing Palestinians.

He is a war criminal.

Backwardness? Should we talk about extremist religious settlers and their backwardness and aggressiveness? Give me a break.

They are victims of a war that was started by Hamas - the cause. They count just like Hamas includs terrorists in its death toll.

I don't get your question, please be more clear.

 

You could see it as a cartoon if you want to, it's not a surprise you'd rather ignore facts than facing the reality. Any money that goes into Gaza can reach Hamas' hands.

 

Those kids were alive now if Hamas was not attacking Israel and hiding behind them. Hamas is an expert of driving the media and providing drama.

 

I could also say Muslims that are pro-Israel indicated that Palestinians are wrong. "Do me a break".

Israel's fault? then why does the West Bank look better?

Call Netanyahu a war criminal as much as you want, the fact the Hamas is the one blacklisted as a terror organization and not him tells it all.

 

"extremist religious settlers and their backwardness and aggressiveness". Educate yourself. Soda Stream industries employs hundreds of Palestinians and that's just one example. Your Image of settlers is wrong and racist, just like saying all Palestinians are religious and sick with aggressiveness.

 

What hate are you talking about? cause I don't find it understandable, elaborate please.

 

The hate between Palestinians and Israeli-Jews. This decade-aged hostility.