lego 44,165 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Reports confirms that Hamas' military wing chief was indeed killed today. Is bombing his house with wife and baby in it a legitimate military target? They are both killed. FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Zioni 1,201 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 It was Ross, a pro - Israeli member who said "disgusting Arabs" , though? It was you calling Ross a disgusting human being. What a disgusting human being. Is bombing his house with wife and baby in it a legitimate military target? They are both killed. Mohamad Def is the target. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 And that justifies over 2000 dead civilians how? The rockets didn't start this war. And omg at the size of that flyer. Let's look at the numbers. ''A few days before he was killed trying to disarm an unexploded Israeli missile, Hazem Abu Murad, the head of Gaza’s bomb squad, estimated that Israel had dropped between eighteen to twenty thousand tons of explosives on Gaza since 7 July. As I write, Israel has resumed its heavy bombardment after a nine-day truce ended without a long-term ceasefire agreement. If Abu Murad’s estimate is right, then the explosive power Israel has fired on Gaza by land, sea and air so far is roughly equivalent to one of the atomic bombs the United States dropped on Japan in August 1945. The bomb dropped on Hiroshima was rated at 13 kilotons – the equivalent of thirteen thousand tons of high-explosive TNT – while the bomb dropped on Nagasaki was rated at 21 kilotons. Abu Murad, who died along with five other people on 13 August, estimated that about one thousand tons of unexploded munitions remained. There are more than 1,900 people killed in the ongoing Israeli assault – that is more than one out of every thousand of Gaza’s nearly 1.8 million residents. Israel constantly publishes claims about how many mortar shells or rockets have been fired from Gaza – it claims for instance that 3,360 rockets were fired from Gaza between 8 July and 6 August. It is well known that the rockets have caused minimal damage and casualties, and most fall in so-called “open areas.†But even the number, which is supposed to sound impressive and justify the attack on Gaza, is actually minuscule compared with the volume of ordnance Israel fires into Gaza. Estimates based on partial information from Israeli sources indicate that Israel has fired tens of thousands of artillery shells into Gaza and dropped a bare minimum of six thousand tons of bombs from the air. Abu Murad’s on-the-ground estimate is certainly plausible. And the evidence suggests that contrary to Israeli official propaganda about the care taken to protect civilians, the vast majority of Israeli munitions are inaccurate and indiscriminate in the context of densely-populated areas where they have been widely used in Gaza. This probably explains why Israel is so coy about publicizing the number of missiles, bombs and shells it fires at Gaza. Massive damage What is not in doubt – given the vast scale of killing and destruction inflicted in Gaza, as documented in UN satellite images – is that it is indeed an enormous number. Detail from UN satellite imagery showing total destruction of buildings in Khuzaa, Gaza Strip. (UNOSAT) In one of the most severely hit areas, Khuzaa and al-Qarara in the southeastern Gaza Strip, the UN counted 2,493 destroyed structures, 1,243 severely damaged structures and 2,014 impact craters. The Israeli military itself states that between 8 July and 5 August, “aerial, naval and ground forces struck 4,762 terror sites across the Gaza Strip.†Of course we know that Israel defines everything it bombs as a “terror site,†so this number includes thousands of civilian homes, mosques, businesses and other civilian objects and infrastructure. We also know that Israeli munitions factories were “working in shifts, 24 hours a day†to provide enough ammunition and shells to forces attacking Gaza. During the attack, the Obama administration also replenished Israeli stocks from a one billion dollar weapons stockpile the US keeps in Israel. This included 120 mm mortar rounds and 40 mm grenades. Israeli sources provide some information that allows us to generate a more accurate picture of the quantity of explosives Israel fired, and why their impact was so lethal and indiscriminate. Indiscriminate artillery fire The easiest type of munition to estimate is artillery shells. On 14 August, Haaretz published the following information, sourced to a “senior official of the general staff†of the Israeli army (emphasis added): The estimated cost of the total ammunition used in Gaza fighting is estimated at about 1.3 billion shekels [$370 million]. According to the army’s figures, 39,000 tank shells, 34,000 artillery shells, and 4.8 million bullets were supplied during the fighting. Senior military figures estimate that land forces alone used at least 60 percent of the 5,000 tons of ammunition given to them, but the IDF [israeli army] cannot yet evaluate it accurately. According to the same senior staff officer, most of the ammunition came from Israeli production lines. Some of the ammunition was purchased from the US during hostilities, within the “advance placement†program. Additional ammunition and fighting equipment, along with medical equipment, were also ordered during hostilities, using an expedited procedure via the Defense Ministry. Israel expert Dena Shunra notes that the concern here is cost – this is a move in budget negotiations in which the army seeks more money – and that is the context in which the numbers are revealed. If, as reported, 60 percent of the stores were used, that would mean 23,400 tank shells, 20,400 artillery shells and 2.9 million bullets. That is almost two bullets for every man, woman and child in Gaza. But, by at least one account, this is a woeful underestimate. According to the website Israel Defense, citing military sources, the Israeli army fired “not fewer than 40,000 155 mm artillery shells†into Gaza. The most common artillery munition Israel employs is the 155 mm M107 high-explosive shell, according to a 2007 Human Rights Watch report titled “Indiscriminate Fireâ€: M107 shells are extremely deadly weapons. The expected lethal radius for a 155 mm high explosive projectile is reportedly between 50 and 150 meters and the expected casualty radius is between 100 and 300 meters. IDF [israeli army] officials have said that the error radius for a 155 mm shell is usually 25 meters. Therefore, if shells are lobbed as close as 100 meters to populated areas, as allowed under an IDF policy … or even closer, as sometimes happened, it greatly increases the likelihood of civilian casualties. When the shells explode they can spread about 2,000 fragments in all directions. Sometimes they fail to explode and “become potentially explosive duds,†according to Human Rights Watch. “Israel Military Industries, a state-owned arms producer and exporter, produces the M107 shell, although Israel has also imported 155 mm shells from the United States,†Human Rights Watch says. What this means in practice is that Israeli shelling is indiscriminate because an “error radius†of 25 meters in a densely populated Gaza neighborhood like Shujaiya is as good as firing randomly into people’s houses. Four times as many shells as during “Cast Lead†And this is corroborated from Israeli sources, in particular a 15 August article in Haaretz by Gili Gohen, which explains that “artillery shells are considered ‘statistical shooting,’ which does not enable hitting targets accurately.†Cohen adds: “155 mm shells are generally shot toward an area 50 by 50 meters; hitting anywhere within this area is considered by professionals hitting the target. In densely constructed areas like the Gaza Strip, such an area could include more than five buildings.†Cohen also confirms the unprecedented amount of firepower Israel directed at Gaza (emphasis added): The IDF employed an exceptional amount of firepower during combat in the Gaza Strip, including in densely built areas. According to partial data provided by the army on 29 July, after three weeks of combat (of which 12 days were in the course of ground operation) approximately 30,000 shells had been shot by that time. The ground operation continued for more than one additional week, so we can estimate that the final number of shells shot is significantly higher. By comparison, during the 2009 Cast Lead operation, the IDF shot about 8,000 artillery shells. Of that number, some half (4,000) were smoke shells. About one thousand shells were illuminating shells and the remainder, some 3,000, were explosive shells. During that operation the forces had been instructed to refrain from shooting into constructed areas, excluding exceptional cases, where firepower was needed to rescue forces. Most of the shooting at that time was done into open spaces, or the margins around the constructed area. An estimate can be made that the total number of artillery shells shot during Protective Edge is more than four times as high as during Cast Lead. Cohen explains that on 20 July alone, “some 600 explosive artillery shells were shot within one hour†into the eastern Gaza City neighborhood of Shujaiya. Such a barrage of indiscriminate fire can only have the effect it did: massive destruction and dozens of dead civilians. It was you calling Ross a disgusting human being. Mohamad Def is the target. His house is a civilian house, it is not a legitimate military target. Why you couldn't send soldiers to find and kill him? Instead you bomb and kill his family. Heroic. FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Basically ^^^^ ... Israel are the bad guys because their bombs are accurate, and the Hamas/Hezbollah rockets don't count cause they can't hit diddly. .???? like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Zioni 1,201 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 And that justifies over 2000 dead civilians how? The rockets didn't start this war. And omg at the size of that flyer. Let's look at the numbers. ''A few days before he was killed trying to disarm an unexploded Israeli missile, Hazem Abu Murad, the head of Gaza’s bomb squad, estimated that Israel had dropped between eighteen to twenty thousand tons of explosives on Gaza since 7 July. As I write, Israel has resumed its heavy bombardment after a nine-day truce ended without a long-term ceasefire agreement. If Abu Murad’s estimate is right, then the explosive power Israel has fired on Gaza by land, sea and air so far is roughly equivalent to one of the atomic bombs the United States dropped on Japan in August 1945. The bomb dropped on Hiroshima was rated at 13 kilotons – the equivalent of thirteen thousand tons of high-explosive TNT – while the bomb dropped on Nagasaki was rated at 21 kilotons. Abu Murad, who died along with five other people on 13 August, estimated that about one thousand tons of unexploded munitions remained. There are more than 1,900 people killed in the ongoing Israeli assault – that is more than one out of every thousand of Gaza’s nearly 1.8 million residents. Israel constantly publishes claims about how many mortar shells or rockets have been fired from Gaza – it claims for instance that 3,360 rockets were fired from Gaza between 8 July and 6 August. It is well known that the rockets have caused minimal damage and casualties, and most fall in so-called “open areas.†But even the number, which is supposed to sound impressive and justify the attack on Gaza, is actually minuscule compared with the volume of ordnance Israel fires into Gaza. Estimates based on partial information from Israeli sources indicate that Israel has fired tens of thousands of artillery shells into Gaza and dropped a bare minimum of six thousand tons of bombs from the air. Abu Murad’s on-the-ground estimate is certainly plausible. And the evidence suggests that contrary to Israeli official propaganda about the care taken to protect civilians, the vast majority of Israeli munitions are inaccurate and indiscriminate in the context of densely-populated areas where they have been widely used in Gaza. This probably explains why Israel is so coy about publicizing the number of missiles, bombs and shells it fires at Gaza. Massive damage What is not in doubt – given the vast scale of killing and destruction inflicted in Gaza, as documented in UN satellite images – is that it is indeed an enormous number. Detail from UN satellite imagery showing total destruction of buildings in Khuzaa, Gaza Strip. (UNOSAT) In one of the most severely hit areas, Khuzaa and al-Qarara in the southeastern Gaza Strip, the UN counted 2,493 destroyed structures, 1,243 severely damaged structures and 2,014 impact craters. The Israeli military itself states that between 8 July and 5 August, “aerial, naval and ground forces struck 4,762 terror sites across the Gaza Strip.†Of course we know that Israel defines everything it bombs as a “terror site,†so this number includes thousands of civilian homes, mosques, businesses and other civilian objects and infrastructure. We also know that Israeli munitions factories were “working in shifts, 24 hours a day†to provide enough ammunition and shells to forces attacking Gaza. During the attack, the Obama administration also replenished Israeli stocks from a one billion dollar weapons stockpile the US keeps in Israel. This included 120 mm mortar rounds and 40 mm grenades. Israeli sources provide some information that allows us to generate a more accurate picture of the quantity of explosives Israel fired, and why their impact was so lethal and indiscriminate. Indiscriminate artillery fire The easiest type of munition to estimate is artillery shells. On 14 August, Haaretz published the following information, sourced to a “senior official of the general staff†of the Israeli army (emphasis added): The estimated cost of the total ammunition used in Gaza fighting is estimated at about 1.3 billion shekels [$370 million]. According to the army’s figures, 39,000 tank shells, 34,000 artillery shells, and 4.8 million bullets were supplied during the fighting. Senior military figures estimate that land forces alone used at least 60 percent of the 5,000 tons of ammunition given to them, but the IDF [israeli army] cannot yet evaluate it accurately. According to the same senior staff officer, most of the ammunition came from Israeli production lines. Some of the ammunition was purchased from the US during hostilities, within the “advance placement†program. Additional ammunition and fighting equipment, along with medical equipment, were also ordered during hostilities, using an expedited procedure via the Defense Ministry. Israel expert Dena Shunra notes that the concern here is cost – this is a move in budget negotiations in which the army seeks more money – and that is the context in which the numbers are revealed. If, as reported, 60 percent of the stores were used, that would mean 23,400 tank shells, 20,400 artillery shells and 2.9 million bullets. That is almost two bullets for every man, woman and child in Gaza. But, by at least one account, this is a woeful underestimate. According to the website Israel Defense, citing military sources, the Israeli army fired “not fewer than 40,000 155 mm artillery shells†into Gaza. The most common artillery munition Israel employs is the 155 mm M107 high-explosive shell, according to a 2007 Human Rights Watch report titled “Indiscriminate Fireâ€: M107 shells are extremely deadly weapons. The expected lethal radius for a 155 mm high explosive projectile is reportedly between 50 and 150 meters and the expected casualty radius is between 100 and 300 meters. IDF [israeli army] officials have said that the error radius for a 155 mm shell is usually 25 meters. Therefore, if shells are lobbed as close as 100 meters to populated areas, as allowed under an IDF policy … or even closer, as sometimes happened, it greatly increases the likelihood of civilian casualties. When the shells explode they can spread about 2,000 fragments in all directions. Sometimes they fail to explode and “become potentially explosive duds,†according to Human Rights Watch. “Israel Military Industries, a state-owned arms producer and exporter, produces the M107 shell, although Israel has also imported 155 mm shells from the United States,†Human Rights Watch says. What this means in practice is that Israeli shelling is indiscriminate because an “error radius†of 25 meters in a densely populated Gaza neighborhood like Shujaiya is as good as firing randomly into people’s houses. Four times as many shells as during “Cast Lead†And this is corroborated from Israeli sources, in particular a 15 August article in Haaretz by Gili Gohen, which explains that “artillery shells are considered ‘statistical shooting,’ which does not enable hitting targets accurately.†Cohen adds: “155 mm shells are generally shot toward an area 50 by 50 meters; hitting anywhere within this area is considered by professionals hitting the target. In densely constructed areas like the Gaza Strip, such an area could include more than five buildings.†Cohen also confirms the unprecedented amount of firepower Israel directed at Gaza (emphasis added): The IDF employed an exceptional amount of firepower during combat in the Gaza Strip, including in densely built areas. According to partial data provided by the army on 29 July, after three weeks of combat (of which 12 days were in the course of ground operation) approximately 30,000 shells had been shot by that time. The ground operation continued for more than one additional week, so we can estimate that the final number of shells shot is significantly higher. By comparison, during the 2009 Cast Lead operation, the IDF shot about 8,000 artillery shells. Of that number, some half (4,000) were smoke shells. About one thousand shells were illuminating shells and the remainder, some 3,000, were explosive shells. During that operation the forces had been instructed to refrain from shooting into constructed areas, excluding exceptional cases, where firepower was needed to rescue forces. Most of the shooting at that time was done into open spaces, or the margins around the constructed area. An estimate can be made that the total number of artillery shells shot during Protective Edge is more than four times as high as during Cast Lead. Cohen explains that on 20 July alone, “some 600 explosive artillery shells were shot within one hour†into the eastern Gaza City neighborhood of Shujaiya. Such a barrage of indiscriminate fire can only have the effect it did: massive destruction and dozens of dead civilians. His house is a civilian house, it is not a legitimate military target. Why you couldn't send soldiers to find and kill him? Instead you bomb and kill his family. Heroic. Every place that has been bombed contained/covered/hid Hamas' ammunition and weapons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Every place that has been bombed contained/covered/hid Hamas' ammunition and weapons. You don't have any evidence on that. Whole neighborhoods wiped out. Come on now. FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Zioni 1,201 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://mobile.twitter.com/idfspokesperson/status/502142603920277504 Today, Hamas fired more than 175 rockets at Israel. Nevertheless, yesterday we transferred 175 tons of gas into Gaza. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Basically ^^^^ ... Israel are the bad guys because their bombs are accurate, and the Hamas/Hezbollah rockets don't count cause they can't hit diddly. .???? How are their bombs accurate when majority killed are civilians? FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Zioni 1,201 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 You don't have any evidence on that. Whole neighborhoods wiped out. Come on now. Of course there will be no-proof, we destroyed all the weapons that was there, that's the point by destroying ammunition and weapons :fail: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://mobile.twitter.com/idfspokesperson/status/502142603920277504 Today, Hamas fired more than 175 rockets at Israel. Nevertheless, yesterday we transferred 175 tons of gas into Gaza. A few days before he was killed trying to disarm an unexploded Israeli missile, Hazem Abu Murad, the head of Gaza’s bomb squad, estimated that Israel had dropped between eighteen to twenty thousand tons of explosives on Gaza since 7 July. Of course there will be no-proof, we destroyed all the weapons that was there, that's the point by destroying ammunition and weapons So you just blindly believe your army without any proof? They can literally bomb anything and say afterwards there were Hamas weapons, it doesn't work like that. These are war crimes. FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolev 867 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Is bombing his house with wife and baby in it a legitimate military target? They are both killed. Absolutely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Zioni 1,201 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The bomb dropped on Hiroshima was rated at 13 kilotons – the equivalent of thirteen thousand tons of high-explosive TNT – while the bomb dropped on Nagasaki was rated at 21 kilotons. Abu Murad, who died along with five other people on 13 August, estimated that about one thousand tons of unexploded munitions remained. There are more than 1,900 people killed in the ongoing Israeli assault – that is more than one out of every thousand of Gaza’s nearly 1.8 million residents. Israel constantly publishes claims about how many mortar shells or rockets have been fired from Gaza – it claims for instance that 3,360 rockets were fired from Gaza between 8 July and 6 August. It is well known that the rockets have caused minimal damage and casualties, and most fall in so-called “open areas.†But even the number, which is supposed to sound impressive and justify the attack on Gaza, is actually minuscule compared with the volume of ordnance Israel fires into Gaza. Estimates based on partial information from Israeli sources indicate that Israel has fired tens of thousands of artillery shells into Gaza and dropped a bare minimum of six thousand tons of bombs from the air. Abu Murad’s on-the-ground estimate is certainly plausible. And the evidence suggests that contrary to Israeli official propaganda about the care taken to protect civilians, the vast majority of Israeli munitions are inaccurate and indiscriminate in the context of densely-populated areas where they have been widely used in Gaza. This probably explains why Israel is so coy about publicizing the number of missiles, bombs and shells it fires at Gaza. Massive damage What is not in doubt – given the vast scale of killing and destruction inflicted in Gaza, as documented in UN satellite images – is that it is indeed an enormous number. Detail from UN satellite imagery showing total destruction of buildings in Khuzaa, Gaza Strip. (UNOSAT) In one of the most severely hit areas, Khuzaa and al-Qarara in the southeastern Gaza Strip, the UN counted 2,493 destroyed structures, 1,243 severely damaged structures and 2,014 impact craters. The Israeli military itself states that between 8 July and 5 August, “aerial, naval and ground forces struck 4,762 terror sites across the Gaza Strip.†Of course we know that Israel defines everything it bombs as a “terror site,†so this number includes thousands of civilian homes, mosques, businesses and other civilian objects and infrastructure. We also know that Israeli munitions factories were “working in shifts, 24 hours a day†to provide enough ammunition and shells to forces attacking Gaza. During the attack, the Obama administration also replenished Israeli stocks from a one billion dollar weapons stockpile the US keeps in Israel. This included 120 mm mortar rounds and 40 mm grenades. Israeli sources provide some information that allows us to generate a more accurate picture of the quantity of explosives Israel fired, and why their impact was so lethal and indiscriminate. Indiscriminate artillery fire The easiest type of munition to estimate is artillery shells. On 14 August, Haaretz published the following information, sourced to a “senior official of the general staff†of the Israeli army (emphasis added): The estimated cost of the total ammunition used in Gaza fighting is estimated at about 1.3 billion shekels [$370 million]. According to the army’s figures, 39,000 tank shells, 34,000 artillery shells, and 4.8 million bullets were supplied during the fighting. Senior military figures estimate that land forces alone used at least 60 percent of the 5,000 tons of ammunition given to them, but the IDF [israeli army] cannot yet evaluate it accurately. According to the same senior staff officer, most of the ammunition came from Israeli production lines. Some of the ammunition was purchased from the US during hostilities, within the “advance placement†program. Additional ammunition and fighting equipment, along with medical equipment, were also ordered during hostilities, using an expedited procedure via the Defense Ministry. Israel expert Dena Shunra notes that the concern here is cost – this is a move in budget negotiations in which the army seeks more money – and that is t But, by at least one account, this is a woeful underestimate. According to the website Israel Defense, citing military sources, the Israeli army fired “not fewer than 40,000 155 mm artillery shells†into Gaza. The most common artillery munition Israel employs is the 155 mm M107 high-explosive shell, according to a 2007 Human Rights Watch report titled “Indiscriminate Fireâ€: M107 shells are extremely deadly weapons. The expected lethal radius for a 155 mm high explosive projectile is reportedly between 50 and 150 meters and the expected casualty radius is between 100 and 300 meters. IDF [israeli army] officials have said that the error radius for a 155 mm shell is usually 25 meters. Therefore, if shells are lobbed as close as 100 meters to populated areas, as allowed under an IDF policy … or even closer, as sometimes happened, it greatly increases the likelihood of civilian casualties. When the shells explode they can spread about 2,000 fragments in all directions. Sometimes they fail to explode and “become potentially explosive duds,†according to Human Rights Watch. “Israel Military Industries, And this is corroborated from Israeli sources, in particular a 15 August article in Haaretz by His house is a civilian house, it is not a legitimate military target. Why you couldn't send soldiers to find and kill him? Instead you bomb and kill his family. Heroic. How do you expect soldiers to get into deep Gaza, and killing a terrorist, it's impossible, he will run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Absolutely. You should learn about Geneva convention and laws of war. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btAU9HR7lcM from 20:03 FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Zioni 1,201 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Basically ^^^^ ... Israel are the bad guys because their bombs are accurate, and the Hamas/Hezbollah rockets don't count cause they can't hit diddly. .???? Are you serious? :excuseme: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 How do you expect soldiers to get into deep Gaza, and killing a terrorist, it's impossible, he will run. Are you kidding? Wasn't that the reason for ground invasion? FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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