Israel - Palestine Conflict Discussion Thread

[darkwolf 590]

Interesting article from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/31/world/meast/israel-gaza-region/

This isn't just about Jews against Arabs anymore as it is Israel and moderate Muslim states like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan against extremist Arabs from Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood, backed by Iran, Qatar, and Turkey. This issue may be far more complex than before.

That sounds like a big piece of propaganda tbh :)

Saudi Arabia is now moderate and Turkey is extremist? lol

 

But it's actually partially right, Saudi arabia and egypt are siding with Israel against Hamas (Hamas supported egypt's president Morsi, before he got removed in the 2013 coup d'état, Saudi arabia supports the coup d'état) Iran and Saudi Arabia hate each other, Irak is a mess, Syria is mess....things can easily transform into a big war  , I hope not.

[Didymus 34,380]

Interesting article from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/31/world/meast/israel-gaza-region/

This isn't just about Jews against Arabs anymore as it is Israel and moderate Muslim states like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan against extremist Arabs from Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood, backed by Iran, Qatar, and Turkey. This issue may be far more complex than before.

 

 

The international consequences of the conflict are not to be underestimated. Saudi Arabia and the U.S. are basically financing this whole war for not very surprising reasons. If the U.S. steps on Saudi Arabia's toes we might have another oil crisis on our hands; if Saudi Arabia's support for Hamas proves to be fatal for Israel, the U.S. will be in trouble as well. It's a mess.

 

etc. etc.

 

Sad tbh. But it's so not about Hamas vs. Israel anymore.

[LadyGagaTampon 272]

Hamas uses public buildings and privet civilian homes to launch rockets to Israel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu-e5qWXx-k

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfbjO2WznEk

[lego 44,165]

That sounds like a big piece of propaganda tbh :)

Saudi Arabia is now moderate and Turkey is extremist? lol

 

But it's actually partially right, Saudi arabia and egypt are siding with Israel against Hamas (Hamas supported egypt's president Morsi, before he got removed in the 2013 coup d'état, Saudi arabia supports the coup d'état) Iran and Saudi Arabia hate each other, Irak is a mess, Syria is mess....things can easily transform into a big war  , I hope not.

 

 

Saudi Arabia is moderate in a way that they are fighting against radicals/terrorism within their country all the time, they are strict with following religion is some ways but their own mufti and scholars are all the time warning and refuting people who support suicide bombings and groups like al-qaeda, ISIS and such. They stripped bin laden of his citizenship in '94.

They don't have ties with Israel (there was article about that yesterday where they denied it and King Abdullah accused Israel of war crimes [edit: here's the article http://www.arabnews.com/news/featured/608196 ]) ) but they don't like Hamas, it's true, because since the beginning of Muslim Brotherhood, books of Sayyid Qutb had been inspiring bin Laden, Zarqawi and others. People were getting so passionate about ''establishing caliphate'' and ''overthrowing governments'' without knowledge of religion, they started ''excommunicating'' other muslims and just making bloodshed among muslims themselves.

I believe that they are allies with USA only because they know they are weaker and if they would turn enemies there would be nothing left from Two Holy Mosques and they would have mess like in Iraq or Afghanistan.

[Gomstre 2]

I am inside the 5%. It's sad that they'd support that. I don't want any war, no deaths, enough of it all. I just wish hamas would stick to their ceasefire :( maybe just forget about it all for once and let there be peace

They support the operation to stop Hamas from digging tunnels under houses inside their country and firing rockers torward them. Wouldn't call it illigetimate.

[Dolev 867]

I won't even waste my time on this, because there literally loads of incidents where the jews used extreme violence, not only against the Arabs, but also against the British; Hamas learned terrorisme from Israel actually

Check out this link, and bring up Gandhi ever again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence

 

EDIT: oh, I forgot; right now in France, a Jewish terrorist group is being dismanteled: La Ligue de défense juive. It was already declared as a terrorist organization by the USA in 2001.

 

It's you who need some arguments sweety!

Jewish is NOT a race, Muslim is NOT a race, Christian is NOT a race. attached to this land? lol, romantic fantasy!

 

That was AFTER Israelis showed extreme hostility to the original inhabitants of Palestine, killed thousands and thousands, not to mentions that illegal jewish immigrants were still arriving on boats at that time

On the other hand, Arabs never did that to the jews, when Europe was killing jews in the 30s, those who lived in Arab countries were safe. And history showed who has lead a war of elimination, and IS sweeping palestinians into the sea :roll:

 

Muslims and arab christians might not agree on many things, but most of them agree on Israel

 

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brmiddleeastnafricara/236.php

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/2006/07/26/lebanons-muslims-relatively-secular-and-prochristian/#muslims-and-christians-in-lebanon-agreement-on-israel-differing-views-of-the-u-s

I was talking about the WZO, but if you're into "political violence" we could dig also into why it even started http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violence. If you think such behaviors fits the 21 century you are wrong. Violence is not going to bring peace, neither to help an establishment of a Palestinian state.

 

You also forgot France banned "pro-Palestinian" demonstrations. I wounder why!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVarDMOXJ-s

Silly Jews! why would you even feel the need to protect yourselves? 

 

Judaism is the only case where a religion is also a nation. Please educate yourself. I don't know why you brought up the "race" thing" because no one said so. There is no denying on how Jews are related with this land.

 

Extreme hostility? how? by recognizing their rights for their own country? by sharing a new economy with them? by inviting them in a new deceleration of independence to join them and to work together for a better future? Israel's hand was always stretched out in peace. Arriving back in boats is not violent neither wrong in my opinion, stick to the topic.

 

"Arabs never did that to the jews, when Europe was killing jews in the 30s, those who lived in Arab countries were safe"

 

My grandma left Baghdad when she was 11. Arab countries became dangerous for Jews that time. You better educate yourself.

 

History shows Arabs always attacked or threatened Israel and then blamed Israel why the lost a war they were responsible for. If Israel was really sweeping Palestinians into the see then why Israel is the only country in the Middle East where Palestinians are not refugees and enjoys a full equality of rights? not Jordan, not Lebanon, not Egypt, not Syria, but Israel.

 

Already told you, Israel is not living because other people likes it so I really don't get why is it so important for you to discuss it. It will be dumb to think Lebanese citizens which their country fought with Israel for decades now will be in favor of Israel. Citizens of Arab countries are living in a very anti-Israeli climate and often even learns in school how bad Israel is. Every time something bad happens in any Arab country somehow Israel will always be blamed. That's what happens why you are controlled by a dictator that cares about himself more than about his citizens.

[hmm 979]

Saudi Arabia is moderate in a way that they are fighting against radicals/terrorism within their country all the time, they are strict with following religion is some ways but their own mufti and scholars are all the time warning and refuting people who support suicide bombings and groups like al-qaeda, ISIS and such. They stripped bin laden of his citizenship in '94.

They don't have ties with Israel (there was article about that yesterday where they denied it and King Abdullah accused Israel of war crimes [edit: here's the article http://www.arabnews.com/news/featured/608196 ]) ) but they don't like Hamas, it's true, because since the beginning of Muslim Brotherhood, books of Sayyid Qutb had been inspiring bin Laden, Zarqawi and others. People were getting so passionate about ''establishing caliphate'' and ''overthrowing governments'' without knowledge of religion, they started ''excommunicating'' other muslims and just making bloodshed among muslims themselves.

I believe that they are allies with USA only because they know they are weaker and if they would turn enemies there would be nothing left from Two Holy Mosques and they would have mess like in Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

Not entirely relevant, but I don't think the country (Saudi Arabia) that executes gay people, prevents women from driving and until London 2012 prevented them from competing in the Olympics can be anyway defined as being moderate. 

[lego 44,165]

Hmm interesting...

How Israel helped create Hamas

Hamas has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise.

At the time, Israel's main enemy was the late Yasser Arafat's Fatah party, which formed the heart of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). Fatah was secular and cast in the mold of other revolutionary, leftist guerrilla movements waging insurgencies elsewhere in the world during the Cold War. The PLO carried out assassinations and kidnappings and, although recognized by neighboring Arab states, was considered a terrorist organization by Israel; PLO operatives in the occupied territories faced brutal repression at the hands of the Israeli security state.

Read rest here http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

Hamas History Tied To Israel

Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East a--lyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.

According to documents United Press International obtained from the Israel-based Institute for Counter Terrorism, Hamas evolved from cells of the Muslim Brotherhood, founded in Egypt in 1928. Islamic movements in Israel and Palestine were "weak and dormant" until after the 1967 Six Day War in which Israel scored a stunning victory over its Arab enemies.

After 1967, a great part of the success of the Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood was due to their activities among the refugees of the Gaza Strip. The cornerstone of the Islamic movements success was an impressive social, religious, educational and cultural infrastructure, called Da'wah, that worked to ease the hardship of large numbers of Palestinian refugees, confined to camps, and many who were living on the edge.

"Social influence grew into political influence," first in the Gaza Strip, then on the West Bank, said an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

According to ICT papers, Hamas was legally registered in Israel in 1978 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the movement's spiritual leader, as an Islamic Association by the name Al-Mujamma al Islami, which widened its base of supporters and sympathizers by religious propaganda and social work.

According to U.S. administration officials, funds for the movement came from the oil-producing states and directly and indirectly from Israel. The PLO was secular and leftist and promoted Palestinian nationalism. Hamas wanted to set up a transnational state under the rule of Islam, much like Khomeini's Iran.

What took Israeli leaders by surprise was the way the Islamic movements began to surge after the Iranian revolution, after armed resistance to Israel sprang up in southern Lebanon vis-�-vis the Hezbollah, backed by Iran, these sources said.

"Nothing provides the energy for imitation as much as success," commented one administration expert.

A further factor of Hamas' growth was the fact the PLO moved its base of operations to Beirut in the '80s, leaving the Islamic organization to grow in influence in the Occupied Territories "as the court of last resort," he said.

When the intifada began, Israeli leadership was surprised when Islamic groups began to surge in membership and strength. Hamas immediately grew in numbers and violence. The group had always embraced the doctrine of armed struggle, but the doctrine had not been practiced and Islamic groups had not been subjected to suppression the way groups like Fatah had been, according to U.S. government officials.

Jon Snow (@jonsnowC4)

Divide and Rule? Did Israel really once fund Hamas to try to split the PLO?: See this 2002 article: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10456.htm

https://twitter.com/jonsnowC4/status/495650775142789120

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10456.htm

you reap what you sow...

[Dolev 867]

Remeber how some users here attacked me with a heartbreaking video of a poor innocent man getting killed by an Israeli sniper while looking for his family?

http://www.thomaswictor.com/fake-atrocity-video-from-gaza/

Ladies and Gentlemens, horray for Pallywood!   

[Pandemiya 61]

Remeber how some users here attacked me with a heartbreaking video of a poor innocent man getting killed by an Israeli sniper while looking for his family?

http://www.thomaswictor.com/fake-atrocity-video-from-gaza/

Ladies and Gentlemens, horray for Pallywood!   

I thought they knew the video was fake? I was afraid of saying it was fake without getting called delusional and being quoted with essays...

[Dolev 867]

I thought they knew the video was fake? I was afraid of saying it was fake without getting called delusional and being quoted with essays...

I guess they just preferred to ignore it & call me heartless.   

[lego 44,165]

"Still, he has a beard with no mustache, which means he’s a Hamas operative."

:lmao:

This guy is so ignorant, I can't even.. :smh:

[AnaLucia95 2]

Remeber how some users here attacked me with a heartbreaking video of a poor innocent man getting killed by an Israeli sniper while looking for his family?

http://www.thomaswictor.com/fake-atrocity-video-from-gaza/

Ladies and Gentlemens, horray for Pallywood!   

Oh God  

[lego 44,165]

Dr.Bassel Abuwarda (@DrBasselAbuward)

PIC OF THE DAY

Just need to be human to stand up for #Gaza

Jews & Muslims hand in hand in solidarity with Gaza in USA http://twitter.com/DrBasselAbuward/status/495824730964758528/photo/1

https://twitter.com/DrBasselAbuward/status/495824730964758528

[lego 44,165]

Israeli air strike hits ANOTHER UN school in Gaza

Ten people killed and dozens wounded in new missile attack on UN-run school in Rafah, according to witnesses


A girl points out a classroom damaged during an earlier missile attack that hit a UN-run school in Gaza. Photograph: Amador Guallar/NurPhoto/REX


An Israeli air strike has killed at least 10 people and wounded about 30 others in a UN-run school in the southern Gaza Strip, witnesses and medics said, as dozens died in renewed Israeli shelling of the enclave.

The Israeli military declined immediate comment on the attack, the second to hit a UN school in less than a week.

A missile launched by an aircraft struck the entrance to the school in Rafah, the witnesses and medics said.


Witnesses said there was an explosion at about 10.30am just outside the gates of the Rafah Preparatory A Boys school.

A group of children and some adults were buying sweets and biscuits from hawkers.

There have been a considerable number of air strikes in the area overnight and on Sunday morning. Witnesses said there was a deep hole in the ground about eight metres from the school gates that was new, and blood on the floor was being cleaned up.

More than 2,000 people were thought to be seeking refuge in the school, many of them from the east of Rafah where there has been very heavy bombing since Friday, with at least 100 people thought to have been killed in the last few days.

Last Wednesday, at least 15 Palestinians who sought refuge in a UN-run school in Jabalya refugee camp were killed during fighting, and the UN said it appeared that Israeli artillery had hit the building.

The Israeli military said gunmen had fired mortar bombs from near the school and it returned fire in response.

Earlier on Sunday, Israeli shelling killed at least 30 people in Gaza, a day after the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, vowed to keep up pressure on Hamas even after the army completes its core mission of destroying a tunnel network that extends into Israel.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/israel-air-strike-un-school-gaza-rafah?CMP=twt_gu