darkwolf 590 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Wow, the ignorance. The Zionist movement wasn't violent at all. Educate yourself. Haganah means Defense and its job was to protect the new Jewish settlers from such cases - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots. I won't even waste my time on this, because there literally loads of incidents where the jews used extreme violence, not only against the Arabs, but also against the British; Hamas learned terrorisme from Israel actually Check out this link, and bring up Gandhi ever again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence EDIT: oh, I forgot; right now in France, a Jewish terrorist group is being dismanteled: La Ligue de défense juive. It was already declared as a terrorist organization by the USA in 2001. Who said I haven't open the link? are you that blind to see what I wrote for the past weeks? Jews came back. You can't change it. Neither the Pharaohs or Assyrians are attached to this land the same way the Jews are. No to mention they are not even present these days. Bring some better arguments. It's you who need some arguments sweety! Jewish is NOT a race, Muslim is NOT a race, Christian is NOT a race. attached to this land? lol, romantic fantasy! If they wanted to live together why did they attack first? Is that really what the Arabs wanted? to live together? That was AFTER Israelis showed extreme hostility to the original inhabitants of Palestine, killed thousands and thousands, not to mentions that illegal jewish immigrants were still arriving on boats at that time :roll: On the other hand, Arabs never did that to the jews, when Europe was killing jews in the 30s, those who lived in Arab countries were safe. And history showed who has lead a war of elimination, and IS sweeping palestinians into the sea :roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s Wow! Bridgit Gabriel is a Lebanese Christian! Then it must mean all Lebanese Christians are for Israel just like her! right? nice logic you've got. [] Muslims and arab christians might not agree on many things, but most of them agree on Israel http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brmiddleeastnafricara/236.php http://www.pewresearch.org/2006/07/26/lebanons-muslims-relatively-secular-and-prochristian/#muslims-and-christians-in-lebanon-agreement-on-israel-differing-views-of-the-u-s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dy2light 31 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I don't understand this conflict...Can somebody give a simple explanation, if possible? To my understanding: - A long time ago, Palestinians owned the land that is currently Israel, Gaza, and West Bank. - Jewish refugees from Europe came to settle in that land, and the British allowed them to have power in that land, essentially displacing Palestinians and creating Israel. - Palestinians and Israelis come from different religions, causing even more conflict. - A group called Hamas from Palestine allegedly kidnapped and killed 3 Israeli teenagers, triggering the conflict right now. - Israel retaliated and attacked Palestine (innocent civilians too - not just Hamas). - Hamas retaliated and now the two have been fighting for months. - Israel offered a ceasefire for 72 hours but Hamas attacked Israel after 2 hours. - The UN can't do anything? - The US has something to do with this? They're backing Israel by funding their weapons or military or something? Before I say anything else, thank you so much for being honest about your supposed lack of understanding. Humility and inquiry are what we need. I must warn you, this will be a very long explanation. Now, then: Palestinians themselves never had true jurisdiction over the land. Various different empires and nations had rule over the area over the past two thousand years. In terms of the last couple of hundred years (before 1948), the Ottoman Empire had rule over the land, then the British ultimately took jurisdiction over the land after they defeated the Ottomans in World War I. Under this British mandate, it was known as Mandatory Palestine. This name for the region came from the name that some Roman king or whatever gave to the land when it was under Roman rule back in the days of the Roman Empire (that name was Philistina). Before I continue, read about the First Zionist Congress here and the Second Zionist Congress here. Or, just take my word for it when I give the following summary of critical events in this next paragraph: Theodor Herzl, the founder of the modern Zionist movement (Zionist = belief that there should be a Jewish State), agreed with most everyone else there that we Jews should have our own State: a Jewish homeland. Now, Herzl proposed that we investigate the possibilities of inhabiting the area now known as Uganda. Others, however, were quite adamant that the land of Judea and Samaria (i.e. Israel) were where this state needed to be. Long story short, this was the direction that the World Zionist Congress ultimately decided to take in the initiative for the formation of a Jewish State. For reasons that were to ultimately benefit Britain, supposedly (and NOT for other reasons), the British decided to let the Zionists take the territory of Mandatory Palestine and create a Jewish State. Now, there were Jews in the area before, but after the Holocaust and World War II, there was a major influx of Jews from all across Europe into this land. The BALFOUR DECLARATION was the document that essentially handed over the land from the British to the Zionists. Now, there was a problem: there were people here already in this "Palestine", and it's not like they would just let themselves be displaced from this land that has been their home. Here's where the U.N. comes in: the UN Partition Plan of 1947 called for the formation of two states: a Jewish state, and an Arab state. This wound up dividing the territory between Jews and Arabs in the region. The Zionists said yes to this, and the Arabs said no. Uh oh, we have disagreement. Some modifications were made, and a Jewish State wound up being formed and officially founded (and called Israel). May 7th 1948 was the founding date of this Jewish State. The Arabs in the region were, frankly, pissed. Enter the war known to Israelis as the Independence War. May 14th was declared Israeli Independence Day, or Yom Ha'atzma'ut. May 15th was declared by the (later to be called Palestinians) as al-Nakba, or the Catastrophe. And there's a bunch of stuff that happens, including a couple of wars which Israel managed to survive, between then and the 2000s. Ok, fast forward to recent times. When those three Israeli teenagers Gil'ad, Eyal, and Naftali were declared missing, it was declared pretty quickly by the Israeli government that Hamas was most definitely responsible. (Hamas being known as a terrorist organization, but which was elected to power in the Palestinian Authority.) Tensions rose unbelievably, and the three teens were found dead. The nation of Israel mourned together, and then... basically, the back and forth between Hamas in Gaza and the Israelis (back and forth of rockets and missiles, that is) begins. Now, there have been reports in some places that investigations have found that ultimately Hamas was NOT responsible for the kidnapping and killing of these three teens. Naturally, you don't hear about that on the pro-Israel side. However, there has also been a rise of antisemitism in the world yet again that could arguably be correlated to this increased condemnation of Israel for their treatment of the Palestinians. The IDF (Israeli Defense Forces) say that they have specifically target terrorist operations and operatives in and around Gaza, and these "operation" locations have often been civilian homes, schools, hospitals, etc. Supposedly, the IDF has employed strategies to minimize civilian casualties, but Hamas has instructed them to stay where they are. That is what I've heard from the pro-Israel side. From the pro-Palestinian side, I've heard that Israel is deliberately killing Palestinian civilians. Also, various UN shelters and locations have been bombed as a result of this conflict. Basically: both sides are pissed as hell at each other, and hate each other's guts, and therefore will shift all the blame onto the other side. What I've just told you in this post is a mere fraction of the information that I've gathered over the years, but I'm stopping here for now with the history in order to maintain sanity :P And regarding the US, they and Israel have always been very-tight allies. Essentially, Israel promotes American interests in the region, which is why America supports them so much. They are regarded as a "beacon of democracy" in the Middle East. I'm using quotes to show that it's simply what one hears. Now, about the ceasefires: different parties have attempted to broker ceasefires, the 72-hour one being brokered by Egypt, as I understand it. From the Israeli perspective: Israel and Hamas both initially accepted it, but 90 minutes in, Hamas fired rockets once again, and thus broke the ceasefire. From the pro-Palestinian perspective: just minutes after this ceasefire started, Israel fired upon some (civilian or UN, I don't remember which) compound. Just MINUTES. In other words: in different media throughout the world, and on the two different sides, there is different information being spread. And now I've given you a taste of how complex and difficult this conflict is, I think. I hope that helped at least a little bit... EDIT: if you want me to clarify or further explain anything, just ask. I figured this is enough of a start, though. EDIT 2: It's impossible to give a "simple" explanation without deceiving some aspect of truth in the situation. It's a truly complicated situation that cannot be righteously explained in a simple manner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dy2light 31 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Everybody stay calm :) I hate to tell you this, my dear, but as much as you and I would like for this to remain calm and civil, it's an extremely hot-button issue that is seriously inflamed at the moment. I wish more people like us could be civil about it, but I do not foresee a major favorable change in most people's attitudes in the near future... (That said, we can and should do our best to act as anti-inflammatory entities. I wish you best of luck in moderation of this topic <3) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf 590 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 , I couldn't find a better descritpyion for our friend in here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 , I couldn't find a better descritpyion for our friend in here! That was posted on idf parody account, but it's so true. Especially number 2, how many times you needed to be "educated"? :toofunny: FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elixt 34 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 If it's to the countries at war. You guys are doing it to I seriously don't want to live on this planet any more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnaLucia95 2 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Hamas broke the ceasefire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf 590 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 That was posted on idf parody account, but it's so true. Especially number 2, how many times you needed to be "educated"? That's actually a huge mistake that they tell people to get "educated", because people will end up searching for info about this conflict and discover the horrendous atrocities Israel did and does to Palestinians Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandemiya 61 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 That's actually a huge mistake that they tell people to get "educated", because people will end up searching for info about this conflict and discover the horrendous atrocities Israel did and does to Palestinians Yes because everything is Israels fault! They are monsters! ALL of them need to be stopped! They're terrorists! This is exactly what you people say every single day on this forum, and quite frankly, it's annoying by now. Hamas broke the ceasefire Not surprising. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf 590 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Yes because everything is Israels fault! They are monsters! ALL of them need to be stopped! They're terrorists! This is exactly what you people say every single day on this forum, and quite frankly, it's annoying by now. No that's not exactly what we say here, we just report FACTS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandemiya 61 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 No that's not exactly what we say here, we just report FACTS. But it's not facts. It's your opinion. Ever thought that not the entire fricking country is the military and government? I have no control over them. Does that make me a terrorist? I want peace, not death on any side! Does that make me a terrorist still? Isn't that your fact? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 6,697 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Interesting article from CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/31/world/meast/israel-gaza-region/ This isn't just about Jews against Arabs anymore as it is Israel and moderate Muslim states like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan against extremist Arabs from Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood, backed by Iran, Qatar, and Turkey. This issue may be far more complex than before. Stand in the light, cast your shadow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foivos 64 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Both sides must find a solution. USA and others must do something. They mustn't use their powers just for their benefit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf 590 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 But it's not facts. It's your opinion. Ever thought that not the entire fricking country is the military and government? I have no control over them. Does that make me a terrorist? I want peace, not death on any side! Does that make me a terrorist still? Isn't that your fact? I know that of course there are Israelis who don't want war, but they are still a minority and the society and the gvt "reject" them, especially in times like now. And that's a fact, not my opinion: 95% of Jewish Israelis support the war on Gaza If you're one of the remaining 5% , then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandemiya 61 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I know that of course there are Israelis who don't want war, but they are still a minority and the society and the gvt "reject" them, especially in times like now. And that's a fact, not my opinion: 95% of Jewish Israelis support the war on Gaza If you're one of the remaining 5% , then I am inside the 5%. It's sad that they'd support that. I don't want any war, no deaths, enough of it all. I just wish hamas would stick to their ceasefire :( maybe just forget about it all for once and let there be peace Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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