garnite 8 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 You want to fix their problems but you don't really say anything about it publicly. I mean... I know you mainly judge Israel's actions while there are alot worst countries. Just one example: Syria, very close to Israel, has done by far worst actions against their OWN citizens. Back to the topic, I need to disagree but I can understand your point I just researched this and I know that from history, Jewish people will never manage to fully fit in in a society that they don't belong to. The new society in your future country meaning Palestinians and Israelis living together would cause another wave of racism and competition between the two different kind of people. Palestinians = Israelis= Human Beings But there are obvious gaps between the two and it's hard to ignore. It would take 1000 years for the gaps to dissapear. 2 countries can assure a country that is Jewish and can assure safety for the jewish people while also being in cooperation with the Palestinian country in economy and more. Again, I respect your opinion I just disagree with it. i don't say anything about it "publicly" because we're not talking about those things. i am talking about the problems with israel and not other countries. let us focus only on the topic at hand. my goodness, i know countries do bad or even worse things. that is not the point at all. i don't know why you're even going there. we are talking about israel because this is a discussion about israel and that's all there is to it. i needn't bring up the atrocities of syria to discuss the atrocities of israel because they are separate issues. well you happen to be very pessimistic about jews. jewish people will never fit in if they believe they will never fit in. or if they believe it necessary to create a country for themselves on top of where other people live. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronlop 6,882 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 i don't say anything about it "publicly" because we're not talking about those things. i am talking about the problems with israel and not other countries. let us focus only on the topic at hand. my goodness, i know countries do bad or even worse things. that is not the point at all. i don't know why you're even going there. we are talking about israel because this is a discussion about israel and that's all there is to it. i needn't bring up the atrocities of syria to discuss the atrocities of israel because they are separate issues. well you happen to be very pessimistic about jews. jewish people will never fit in if they believe they will never fit in. or if they believe it necessary to create a country for themselves on top of where other people live. The jewish people will never fit in because history has shown it multiple times. Whenever there is an economy breakdown, who it is to blame? The jewish people. The last case was The Holocaust. The Jewish people were sure they will fit in in Europe and then look what happened. I am not being pessimistic. I don't think the jews are aliens or any thing like that . I just think realistic and I can understand the need for the Jewish people to fully have a country of their own in order to protect themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 The jewish people will never fit in because history has shown it multiple times. Whenever there is an economy breakdown, who it is to blame? The jewish people. The last case was The Holocaust. The Jewish people were sure they will fit in in Europe and then look what happened. I am not being pessimistic. I don't think the jews are aliens or any thing like that . I just think realistic and I can understand the need for the Jewish people to fully have a country of their own in order to protect themselves. what happened was a madman took charge. attitudes need to change. excluding yourself from society does not and cannot repair that. especially when you do it through heinous means like creating a state which causes the suffering of another people who had nothing to do with the suffering of jews. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronlop 6,882 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 what happened was a madman took charge. attitudes need to change. excluding yourself from society does not and cannot repair that. especially when you do it through heinous means like creating a state which causes the suffering of another people who had nothing to do with the suffering of jews. And what if another madman will take charge? Is it worth the risk? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 And what if another madman will take charge? Is it worth the risk? ... what if a madman takes charge and wants to exterminate black people? or gay people? or muslims? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronlop 6,882 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 ... what if a madman takes charge and wants to exterminate black people? or gay people? or muslims? In South Africa, because of the apartheid, only black people are allowed in the government for example. This is Affirmative Action to prevent anything bad from happening again. To prevent another madman that will take a charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 In South Africa, because of the apartheid, only black people are allowed in the government for example. This is Affirmative Action to prevent anything bad from happening again. To prevent another madman that will take a charge. what has that got to do with what i said? and that's not true, i just googled it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Hanekom white Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronlop 6,882 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 what has that got to do with what i said? and that's not true, i just googled it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Hanekom white As the president/prime minster I mean. and it shows that Affirmative Action is also giving the right for jews to have their own country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 As the president/prime minster I mean. and it shows that Affirmative Action is also giving the right for jews to have their own country. what's your source for that? i'm finding no luck proving it. but no, sorry but that's just terrible. integration is key to equality, not segregation and exclusion. this is apartheid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronlop 6,882 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 what's your source for that? i'm finding no luck proving it. but no, sorry but that's just terrible. integration is key to equality, not segregation and exclusion. this is apartheid. What I'm trying to say is that the Jewish people need a country for their own. You can disagree with it but when it comes to a better future. The Jewish people will feel safe in a country that belongs to them. A Palestinian country should be right next to them and they should like in the fairy tales, live happily ever after. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 What I'm trying to say is that the Jewish people need a country for their own. You can disagree with it but when it comes to a better future. The Jewish people will feel safe in a country that belongs to them. A Palestinian country should be right next to them and they should like in the fairy tales, live happily ever after. or jewish people integrate themselves into society like everyone else and work on building and encouraging awareness and tolerance and not exclusion. that is the better choice. and have you found me a source for your claim about south african presidents only allowed to be black? still no luck finding anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronlop 6,882 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 what's your source for that? i'm finding no luck proving it. but no, sorry but that's just terrible. integration is key to equality, not segregation and exclusion. this is apartheid. Also, segregation is causing apartheid? So why not combine all the countries in the world to one country? The Israelis will have a country and the Palestinians will have a country. Like Germany and France don't have to be the same country, Israel and Palestine don't as well. or jewish people integrate themselves into society like everyone else and work on building and encouraging awareness and tolerance and not exclusion. that is the better choice. and have you found me a source for your claim about south african presidents only allowed to be black? still no luck finding anything. I didn't find a source, but I'll try to look for one. I heard it somewhere once, I can't recall where. Fact is: Since 1994, when the apertheid ended, 4 black presidents were chosen although the white people being a majority. But there are surely better sources than that but I can't seem to find atm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Also, segregation is causing apartheid? So why not combine all the countries in the world to one country? The Israelis will have a country and the Palestinians will have a country. Like Germany and France don't have to be the same country, Israel and Palestine don't as well. or why not refrain from creating states on top of someone else's houses!? you just avoid the fact that israel is unjust by making exaggerated points about other places in the world. didn't find a source, but I'll try to look for one. I heard it somewhere once, I can't recall where. Fact is: Since 1994, when the apertheid ended, 4 black presidents were chosen although the white people being a majority. But there are surely better sources than that but I can't seem to find atm. because it's not true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronlop 6,882 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 or why not refrain from creating states on top of someone else's houses!? you just avoid the fact that israel is unjust by making exaggerated points about other places in the world. I could say the same about the Palestinians though. The Jewish people lived in Israel first according to the bible. Yet, I am not trying to find who is Israel's owner. What I am trying to find is peace. 2 countries is in my opinion the best option for peace and I don't think I'll change my mind sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereforthemusic 0 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 It's like the world is divided to Germany, Italy etc. No, it's not fair. But the Palestinians had no legal claim for the territory. As you say the Palestinians are the rightful owners of the territory, I can say that the Jewish are the rightful owners. It is not that obvious as you think it is. Again, y'all compare something to something that doesn't match it. His comparisons match well! Poor Palestinians people.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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