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Streaming is Hurting Meghan


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Matangi

Maybe a shocker to some of y'all but "urban" doesn't exclude an artist from being a pop artist. didn't think something like that needs to be pointed out. Nicki minaj has and is probably going to keep making pop records. Same with Rihanna, same with beyonce, same with the weeknd. They are 100% bona fide pop stars even if they are recognized to be urban artists as well.

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StrawberryBlond
22 minutes ago, Matangi said:

Honey just claimed "Rihanna isn't a popstar" :ladyhaha: Right cause "Starboy", " Cant Feel My Face", "Love on the Brain", "Diamonds" etc. are totally not pop songs. Oh that's right they are, but some of y'all can't comprehend that pop music in 2018 may overlap with urban music, just like it did overlap with rock music in the 60s/70s and how it did with electronic music in the 80's etc.

Rihanna has walked a line between pop and urban early in her career but from 2011, she started becoming more and more urban and from 2012 and onwards, she went right off in an urban direction and hasn't looked back since. Artists can switch genre distinction over time. Starboy is absolutely urban, you don't hear lyrics and a voice like that in pop music. Can't Feel My Face is pop, I'll give you that. Love on the Brain is classic RnB with touches of old school soul, not pop whatsoever. Diamonds is one of the very few pop songs Rihanna's done in a long time. Singing one or two songs in one genre doesn't make you that genre though, you just dabbled in it briefly. All that matters for your genre classification is the music you make the majority of the time.

19 minutes ago, Matangi said:

Maybe a shocker to some of y'all but "urban" doesn't exclude an artist from being a pop artist. didn't think something like that needs to be pointed out. Nicki minaj has and is probably going to keep making pop records. Same with Rihanna, same with beyonce, same with the weeknd. They are 100% bona fide pop stars even if they are recognized to be urban artists as well.

We know this. Nicki has been a pop/rap crossover from the beginning but not on every song. Lately, she's been going more and more rap as the genre rose to prominence again. She totally did the whole pop thing at the beginning to get popular because it was the most popular genre at the time, that's all. As the pop trend died away, so did her pop influences. You don't see her make tracks like Starships, Pound The Alarm, Whip It or Automatic anymore for a reason - because that pop/rap crossover is no longer cool and those songs sound embarassingly dated several years later. She even changed her style from kooky Gaga rip-off (huge pink wigs, tutu dresses, bizarre accessories) to standard female rapper (long dark hair, tight all-black outfits, normal makeup).  Rihanna and Beyonce both used to be more pop until the populatarity of the genre changed. Beyonce's definitely full-on RnB now. The Weeknd only makes some pop tunes here and there. It just shows the diversity of RnB when it can't always be classified and is changing somewhat.

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Matangi
16 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Rihanna has walked a line between pop and urban early in her career but from 2011, she started becoming more and more urban and from 2012 and onwards, she went right off in an urban direction and hasn't looked back since. Artists can switch genre distinction over time. Starboy is absolutely urban, you don't hear lyrics and a voice like that in pop music. Can't Feel My Face is pop, I'll give you that. Love on the Brain is classic RnB with touches of old school soul, not pop whatsoever. Diamonds is one of the very few pop songs Rihanna's done in a long time. Singing one or two songs in one genre doesn't make you that genre though, you just dabbled in it briefly. All that matters for your genre classification is the music you make the majority of the time.

We know this. Nicki has been a pop/rap crossover from the beginning but not on every song. Lately, she's been going more and more rap as the genre rose to prominence again. She totally did the whole pop thing at the beginning to get popular because it was the most popular genre at the time, that's all. As the pop trend died away, so did her pop influences. You don't see her make tracks like Starships, Pound The Alarm, Whip It or Automatic anymore for a reason - because that pop/rap crossover is no longer cool and those songs sound embarassingly dated several years later. She even changed her style from kooky Gaga rip-off (huge pink wigs, tutu dresses, bizarre accessories) to standard female rapper (long dark hair, tight all-black outfits, normal makeup).  Rihanna and Beyonce both used to be more pop until the populatarity of the genre changed. Beyonce's definitely full-on RnB now. The Weeknd only makes some pop tunes here and there. It just shows the diversity of RnB when it can't always be classified and is changing somewhat.

Elvis was a rock star while also a popstar, the Beatles were rock stars as well as popstars, Prince was an R&B/rock artist as well as a popstar. Michael Jackson was considered R&B in his time. What you're talking about here is specific pop artists that resemble the Madonna prototype, where it is only pop music because it borrows elements from hip-hop, from electronic music, from rock, from gospel etc. but not originating from those. I challenge you find a black pop artist who isn't simultaneously grouped into rnb. It doesn't happen, because that label overlaps with pop 99% of the time in our current musical climate. Still pop music though, still popstars even if they are often grouped into r&b.

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Taylorrgh
1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I think it's more to do with the fact that Meghan has truly never got out of All About That Bass's shadow. She is still largely thought of as a one hit wonder by many and thus, will always struggle to get wide acceptance of her. She had more continued hits than say, Carly Rae or Lorde, but that doesn't mean that she's been elevated about "one hit wonder" status in the public's mind. Look at her international sales - that's where she's really struggling because she just isn't appealing to non-American audiences, so she has no other market to save her. And perhaps people don't like the song? Not surprising, considering it's one of her worst to date and is nothing special.

But yeah, I won't pretend that for some reason, pop fans don't seem to be devoted on the streaming side of things which is bizarre as pop has always existed on the periphery, no matter what other genre's the biggest. So, I always imagined that streaming would make pop even bigger as a big part of its identity is devoted fans who buy everything associated with it to get it doing well in the charts. But the exact opposite has been true. Young people listen to pop and young people are ardent streamers, so why isn't pop...popping? Yes, pop's not the most in thing but streaming now ensures that all music fans can have their say and be equally represented. So, what's going on?

The downside is that you're now getting a worse effect - the same song staying at #1 for weeks on end purely because of streams. The UK charts have #1's at the top for much longer because of this, which makes the charts a bit more credible (as opposed to constant one-week #1's) but then you wind up in a ridiculous situation like the case of Drake's One Dance which stayed at #1 for 15 weeks straight, all because of streams. Bear in mind that the longest-serving UK #1 was Bryan Adams' Everything I Do I Do It For You, at 17 weeks, in 1991, so it missed the record by not much. Chart followers were buzzing about this for weeks, talking about how insane it was and pointing out that had streaming not been considered at all, it only would have been at #1 for 3 weeks. To date, it has sold 2.3 million units here...combined. Only 554k of them are actual sales. It's a bit of a joke, really. Don't you not think this is a problem? And Rihanna, Drake and The Weeknd are not popstars, they're urban contemporary/RnB. Pop hasn't been a shorthand for "popular" for a long time, it's a genre in and of itself and the music that these three make is not it. Literally everyone files these artists under urban. You're deliberately stretching the definition here.

No, I'm annoyed because there isn't a broader range of musical taste on display. I listen to all kinds of music and the beauty of diversity is slowly dying away due to urban fans monopolising streaming, which already accounts for too much of a song's chart position. It isn't the most fair way of knowing what people are actually listening to because one person can stream the same song all day and it'll be accounted for each time, then you multiply that be millions when all the fans get on board. It shouldn't count if it's the same person re-listening. One sale used to be all that was accounted for per person and it didn't matter how many times you played your vinyl or CD. One person's obsession shouldn't dictate the charts. I thought it seemed a fairer representation initially...until I realised how ridiculously lenient the rules are.

And in reference to your other comment that "urban" is another way of saying "black," no it isn't. You can be any race and do urban. There are white artists succeeding with urban music currently. When we say "urban," we do mean a reference to the music genre, nothing else. Urban music doesn't sound like pop, fact. Don't insert race where there has no need to be.

But it's not fair that certain genres have to go down and/or adapt to a new world where the urban acts don't have to. No one said it was a "conspiracy against white women," that your own overblown perception. Sure, you could say that white women are unintentionally affected as most pop artists are white women but no one's saying that this was a music industry conspiracy against them. And it's a far bigger issue than urban being the most popular genre right now. It's the fact that lots more urban fans are utilising streaming, putting artists from other genres at a distinct disadvantage. Other genres don't stand a chance of becoming the next big trend in the future if this continues.

No they don't. It's because their music is obviously urban. You don't have to be educated in music to know the differences between pop and urban music. Even without R Kelly, there's no doubt that Gaga made an RnB record with DWUW. It's all about beat, lyrics and vocal style. Urban contemporary is all the rage right now and it sounds nothing like what popstars make. Wake up and realise that "pop" as a shorthand for "popular" is an extremely outdated term and has been for a long time.

First of all what I’m not going to do is argue with you about music (which I know a lot about). Anyway yes they do label black artists as “urban” or “R&B” just because they are black. They did with Rihannna even though she makes pop music. They did it to Whitney and Janet at the beginning of their careers even though their music was not R&B at that time in their careers. They did it with Mariah even when she didn’t start having a more urban sound until daydream/butterfly eras. So in short, yes they do label black artists as urban artists even when they make POP music. So clearly you’re the one that’s does not know anything about the music industry and how they market POC.:bye:

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Katsuki Bakugo

Who?

If All You Ever Do Is Look Down On People, You Won't Be Able To Recognize Your Own Weaknesses.
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ShockPop

Streaming is great for elevator music. Aka music you are indifferent about so have on in the background. Sucks for actual music.

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holy scheisse

It's only a matter of time before they can payola streams. Once that happens meg will be back ontop. Katy too. Hehe

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StrawberryBlond
4 hours ago, Matangi said:

Elvis was a rock star while also a popstar, the Beatles were rock stars as well as popstars, Prince was an R&B/rock artist as well as a popstar. Michael Jackson was considered R&B in his time. What you're talking about here is specific pop artists that resemble the Madonna prototype, where it is only pop music because it borrows elements from hip-hop, from electronic music, from rock, from gospel etc. but not originating from those. I challenge you find a black pop artist who isn't simultaneously grouped into rnb. It doesn't happen, because that label overlaps with pop 99% of the time in our current musical climate. Still pop music though, still popstars even if they are often grouped into r&b.

Music was a different world in the days of Elvis. Rockn'roll was that classic sound, now it can mean all forms of rock. Some people call The Beatles pop to this day but I always thought of them as rock (just not the kind I'm into). Prince did a lot of genres, so his loose classification was understandable. MJ did start out with that RnB Motown sound, so that label was apt until he branched out as an adult and was considered pop with a touch of rock. I do know what you mean when you say that black artists can be socialised into traditionally black genres, though. I think Santigold was highly advised to make urabn music but she insisted on making electronic and Bruno Mars was encouraged to sing Latin songs back when he was still under his birth surname, Hernandez because everyone would assume that he was Hispanic. But one example I can give you, though hardly the most commercially viable example, is British singer, V V Brown. She's a black woman who always made experimental music. She started out doing indie pop/rocknroll and then went super experimental with her next two albums. If you look them up on Wikipedia you'll see that they have never been cited as RnB. At most, her debut had "soul" as one of it descriptions but that was accurate, and it contained a list of other apt descriptions too.

3 hours ago, Tyler Henry said:

First of all what I’m not going to do is argue with you about music (which I know a lot about). Anyway yes they do label black artists as “urban” or “R&B” just because they are black. They did with Rihannna even though she makes pop music. They did it to Whitney and Janet at the beginning of their careers even though their music was not R&B at that time in their careers. They did it with Mariah even when she didn’t start having a more urban sound until daydream/butterfly eras. So in short, yes they do label black artists as urban artists even when they make POP music. So clearly you’re the one that’s does not know anything about the music industry and how they market POC.:bye:

Read what I said above as a rebuttal. When Rihanna makes actual pop music, she gets labelled pop. She's been nominated in pop and dance categories multiple times at the Grammys. Loud even got nominated for Best Pop Album and Work got nominated under "Best Pop Duo Performance" even though it's totally not pop. And I've always thought Mariah walked the line between urban and pop and although she's half black, I've always viewed her as more white. I won't deny that labels market POC in a certain way and encourage them in certain ways but it's untrue to say that they never label them as pop or any other non-black genre for that matter. Most of the public know that distinction too, even if the Grammys don't.

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19 hours ago, PussyGlam said:

I used to be against streaming but I wouldn't have even listened to her music otherwise. 

Yeah exactly... people like blaming streaming but if the music is good the streaming is good? No one ****ing likes Meghan trainor that has nothing to do with spotify

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Inferno
20 hours ago, Bio said:

This. People here only hate streaming because bubblegum pop music is not at the center of it, but isn't it the most fair way of really knowing what people are listening to?

I think thats arguable. Im sure its every bit as corrupt as any other platform.

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Inferno
6 hours ago, Matangi said:

Elvis was a rock star while also a popstar, the Beatles were rock stars as well as popstars, Prince was an R&B/rock artist as well as a popstar. Michael Jackson was considered R&B in his time. What you're talking about here is specific pop artists that resemble the Madonna prototype, where it is only pop music because it borrows elements from hip-hop, from electronic music, from rock, from gospel etc. but not originating from those. I challenge you find a black pop artist who isn't simultaneously grouped into rnb. It doesn't happen, because that label overlaps with pop 99% of the time in our current musical climate. Still pop music though, still popstars even if they are often grouped into r&b.

Right but one of the main reasons veteran pop stars like Beyonce and Rihanna are the only ones dominating among their generational peers within this urban dominated landscape is the fact that they can easily straddle that line between urban demographics and pop demographics. They can appeal to both. Whereas "gayer" pop acts like Lady Gaga ultimately got shelved away as "too gay". Where once her brand appealed to the mainstream, as urban started climbing to the top of the food chain she started to wither away because its not something she can or is allowed to adapt to. Not arguing against the fact that ultimately Rih and Bey are in fact pop stars, just saying. In an era of urban domination in music it makes sense that they are the ones prevailing. I don't think it solely has to do with the quality of music as some people try to argue at times. As we saw in the mid-00s, its just harder for certain acts to break through when urban dominates because its probably one of the least inclusive genres. In my opinion there were a plethora of "female pop stars" in this bygone era everyone seems to be romanticizing in here because electronic/dance music was at its peak of consumption and anyone can survive in that climate so long as you put their vocals over a four on the floor beat. Which is precisely why Nicki Minaj remained as big as she was for so long, because if it were based on rap alone she would've trailed off as soon as she debuted.

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Matangi
2 hours ago, Inferno said:

Right but one of the main reasons veteran pop stars like Beyonce and Rihanna are the only ones dominating among their generational peers within this urban dominated landscape is the fact that they can easily straddle that line between urban demographics and pop demographics. They can appeal to both. Whereas "gayer" pop acts like Lady Gaga ultimately got shelved away as "too gay". Where once her brand appealed to the mainstream, as urban started climbing to the top of the food chain she started to wither away because its not something she can or is allowed to adapt to. Not arguing against the fact that ultimately Rih and Bey are in fact pop stars, just saying. In an era of urban domination in music it makes sense that they are the ones prevailing. I don't think it solely has to do with the quality of music as some people try to argue at times. As we saw in the mid-00s, its just harder for certain acts to break through when urban dominates because its probably one of the least inclusive genres. In my opinion there were a plethora of "female pop stars" in this bygone era everyone seems to be romanticizing in here because electronic/dance music was at its peak of consumption and anyone can survive in that climate so long as you put their vocals over a four on the floor beat. Which is precisely why Nicki Minaj remained as big as she was for so long, because if it were based on rap alone she would've trailed off as soon as she debuted.

6

well yeah, but that's just how music tends to cycle. I don't think Gaga's dwindling success, however, has anything to do with urban music. possibly her radio and streaming today, but her stardom was, unfortunately, falling around 2012, due to bad management and not as quality/relatable music post BTW from my perspective. 

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StarstruckIllusion
23 hours ago, Matangi said:

when is ggd going to realize pop artists like the ones in the last decade aren't going to exist in the same way, and it isnt some conspiracy against white women, its that music is evolving and what is popular music of 2018, is "urban" lmao.

How is it evolution when we've been here before? The early 2000s called, they want their music taste back. It's a de-evolution. 

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Personally I don't think it's fair that streaming has such a huge weight compared to something people actually spend money on. If anything, streaming should eat into radio airplay charts. Maybe do a 50/50 split. Have the charts based on 50% streaming/airplay, and 50% sales.

Having said that, I just think the song sucks and her image sucks too. There are pop acts doing well on streaming like "No Rules" and "Havana". In fact, if Gaga had some songs like Dua Lipa had, I do believe she'd be doing well on streaming. People stream stuff that is cool. But "cool" doesn't HAVE to mean urban/black. Megan Trainor's new stuff, Katy Perry's new stuff, and yes even Joanne just aren't cool. If they put out something like "No Rules" they'd do well.

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