US Charts Discussion - 'ARTPOP' debuts at #1

[aquaprincess 23]

This is absolutely true.

I'm a hardcore Madonna fan and I come to this board not to put you down but to lift you up!

Although I love Madonna, I am also someone who loves Lady Gaga... Hey, I like good music. What can I say?

You guys don't need to be in meltdown mode right now and here is why.

Trust me... Madonna has flopped worse and managed to bounce back better than ever.

Madonna was riding high in the late 80's with the Blonde Ambition tour (Kinda like The Monster Ball). Express Yourself was her Bad Romance, and the release of Vogue in 1990 was her Born This Way. It rocked the charts and the world of music. Her performance at the Video Music Awards of Vogue is sited as one of the greatest moments in her career.

Nobody could defeat Madonna... except for Madonna.

She followed up Vogue with the song "Hanky Panky" ... not familiar with it? Most people aren't. It peaked at number 10 on the Billboard charts (the exact same place as Judas).

A single about kink? People were starting to think Madonna was deviant. I mean... critics had called her deviant since Like A Virgin... but now the general public was starting to wonder too. This reminds me of the response to Judas in many ways.

So Madonna decided to double down on that image. First testing the waters with Justify My Love off of her greatest hits album... the video was banned from MTV, MuchMusic in Canada, and landed her on ABC's Nightline. In that interview she gave flippant remarks that didn't help her at all.

Yes, Justify My Love went to number one. But it sold half what Vogue had done and was the lead single off The Immaculate collection. Her first greatest hits.

Still, she marched on and released The Sex Book... this book ruined her career. In it she was featured naked... in bondage clothes... looking at her vagina in a mirror... simulating urination. This was 1991 folks. Her next single went to number 9 and then down, down, down.

THEN, she decided to actually release the album every critic had been accusing her of releasing all along: Erotica.

Erotica, imho, was Madonna's ARTPOP.

The haters have accused Lady Gaga of being pretentious, weird, artsy, and over the top... but her albums had never tried to be that... until ARTPOP. She wanted a reaction, even piping in boos at the VMA's... but I don't think she wanted THIS MUCH of a reaction.

In a similar way, Madonna wanted a reaction with Erotica and she got it... but I don't think she wanted THAT MUCH of a reaction.

Her debut single "Erotica" only went to number 3 (and this was a different era folks)... The single was basically Madonna's alterego "Dita" (kind of like Lady Gaga created alter egos) reading (not singing) an explicit erotic poem over a beat that could have come from a seedy bathhouse in the belly of the beast.

Publishing a B-Side with her reading passages from the Bible over a very similar beat, in a hushed s-xy voice didn't help her either.

Nor did the constant nudity. (Gaga sure is naked a lot lately...)

Critics BASHED the album. With Entertainment Weekly calling it "depressingly trite" and "the most joyless dance music of all time." Slant called Madonna's voice nasal and remote. Even the New York Times got in on the action chiding it for a lack of musical depth and professional poignancy...

You know what the irony is? Just as I think will happen to ARTPOP, Erotica is now considered legend. Stylus magazine stated: "Erotica was too sophisticated for a mainstream besotted with The Bodyguard..."

This is what is going to happen to ARTPOP. People are going to frown on it now, and in 20 years applaud it for trying to do something so different.

Critics LOVE to re-write history.

Stanley Kubrick's classic The Shining, received nothing but razzie awards the year it was made and is now listed by the American Film Institute as one of the greatest films of all time.

Being different comes with MAJOR risks.

Sometimes those risks pay off and sometimes they don't.

Due to the extreme backlash to the Erotica album, the s-x book, and outright nudity, simulated orgy, explicit references to gay s-x, bdsm, and frankly some of the most offensive things the mainstream media had ever seen... the tour for Erotica, called The Girlie Show" was virtually pulled from the US except for a very few select dates.

In fact, the HBO broadcast of it has to be shown from Australia. And a 'safety taping' of it was shown... not a live performance. Reportedly due to weather.

The tour only grossed $70 million. At this point most people claimed that Madonna was officially 'over.'

Those are probably the same people claiming now that Lady Gaga is officially over now.

Despite Madonna intentionally toning it down on her next work... that next album performed even WORSE than Erotica... Bedtime stories opened with only 145,000 copies sold.

This was at a time well before downloads and piracy had crippled the music industry. In fact this was at the music industry's height.

145,000 for Madonna in 1994 would be like Lady Gaga opening with 50,000 today.

Madonna even addressed the situation in the single 'Human Nature' which sampled Express Yourself and declared things like "Oops, did I talk about s-x? Oops, did I speak my mind? Oops, did I talk about you? Well, I'm not sorry."

The album did have one success... a ballad called 'Take A Bow,' but at that point, all Madonna could do was call it quits and she more or less did.

She left the music business to film a movie. The only release after Bedtime Stories and before Ray of Light was a compilation of her greatest ballads with a single that FAILED to debut in the Hot 100 and PEAKED at number 78.

During this time, Madonna sought to repair her image by playing the legendary Eva Peron in Evita. As a result, there was massive outrage among the Argentine people that this 'witch' would play their idol.

Yet, somehow, this movie helped to change Madonna in the public's eye. It didn't happen the moment it was released. In fact, it got mixed reviews at first... but as it ran, people began to see a new side of the Material Girl. They saw a more passionate side that was about loving music, philanthropy, and not so much about whips, urine, and softcore ****ography.

She went on to win a best actress Golden Globe for her performance.

The mission had been accomplished. Seven years after Erotica, the general public was starting to like Madonna again.

But then she went away once more.

She was busy recording her comeback album.

She originally recorded Ray Of Light with her previous producer Babyface, but it sounded too similar to music from Bedtime Stories and WORSE Erotica. She knew that this album could not sound as though it even so much as came from the same artist associated with Erotica.

She grew her hair out long, 'found religion', and released one of the greatest albums of all time: Ray Of Light.

The critics, the public, MTV, Rollingstone, the Grammy's, the VMA's, everyone was floored.

This was an album of real music, with a sound that had not been heard before thanks to Madonna's use of William Orbit's 'soundscape' style of music on a mainstream level for the first time. She used real instruments and she sung personal songs about her struggles with fame, her mistakes, forgiveness, regret, and hope for a better future.

This album made me cry. 

I consider this album alongside 'Born This Way' to be one of the two greatest pop albums released since The Beatles debuted 'Let It Be.'

The reason I tell you this long story is because I want you to know that this is exactly what Lady Gaga is going to do.

Lady Gaga has a way out, and she is smart enough to see it and take it.

She will likely have a lot of thinking to do in the coming days, and her next album may end up being her Bedtime Stories... but after that, watch out, because she will do something so innovative that nobody saw it coming.

She will ACTUALLY reinvent herself, rather than the millions of phony times she has pretended to reinvented herself by wearing a new wig.

I actually consider Ray of Light to be Madonna's ONLY true reinvention. The others were staged... but that was real.

She had tasted fame and then tasted the ash on the floor of failed celebrity. She knew what it was like to be on the bottom again, a person as driven as her couldn't stand that, and she changed as a person because she had to change in order to survive.

Lady Gaga, I'm sure, has to see the writing on the wall, and I think she will likely change even faster than Madonna did.

I personally think that she needs to write truly introspective music played with real instruments that showcase her voice.

That is a side few people have seen beyond her hardcore fans.

Critics keep praising Dope and Gypsy. This is where she needs to go with her body of work.

She can still be fun and make dance music. Ray Of Light was dance music... but she needs to provide the substance she has always promised and do so in a way that idiots can understand it.

ARTPOP has substance but you have to truly know a LOT about art to get it all. The name of her flying dress is a send up to the name of the exhibit of the original meat dress in the 1930's and NOBODY has commented on this because so few people follow art history in America.

Applause isn't about Lady Gaga, it is about us, but nobody gets this because the average IQ is 100 and that means a good chunk of America has a below average IQ... think about it?

Critics loved Born This Way enough to nominated it for album of the year... it wasn't Born This Way that ruined her. It wasn't the music. It was the presentation.

Just like Erotica is now being declared a masterpiece by many critics, the presentation in 1991 turned off so many people that Madonna ended up selling only 145,000 copies of Bedtime Stories in her first week... and then it FELL DOWN THE CHARTS.

So please, do not despair!

I have seen many acts rise and fall. Alanis Morissette is one of my favorites, I still buy Hanson's CD's... yeah, did you know the MMMBop kids just released their 8th album? And they aren't all even in their 30's and they still sell out shows... more intimate shows... but sellouts and damn good music that critics LOVE.

Hanson's route would be the worst case scenerio, and very unlikely. But even with that route, Lady Gaga would still be around selling albums and making music.

What I think will happen is that Lady Gaga will do what Madonna did before her and Cher did before Madonna.

She will come back bigger, better, and badder than ever.

Trust me, I've worked in this industry as well as followed it for a very long time. People like Lady Gaga don't know what the words "give" and "up" even mean.

<3

-- David

Such great points i m not even mad at yet another comparison between gaga and Madonna.idk tho. Its a different time now. Internet has changed things drastically. So not sure if history will be on gagas side. I support her no matter what tho. If I have to go see her at a nightclub I will.

[Deacon 5]

Wow! Lucky time for me to finally create an account!

 

I'm so glad to see Applause back in the iTunes top 10! It bothers me to see people downplay its sales by comparing it to Come & Get It and Heart Attack. It's still in the top 10 and is on track to pass Heart Attack's total sales in a couple weeks! It's not like it's dropping out of the top 100 anytime soon. I was a firm believer in 12+ weeks in the top 10 and I've been and still am a firm believer in Applause going 3X Platinum.

 

Is it crazy of me to think DWUW is a potential #1 hit? Out of all the songs that could eventually knock The Monster off of #1, I definitely think DWUW stands the best chance. Let's just hope Adele doesn't release a new smash single soon!

 

Welcome to the forum! <3

[chris777 112]

I'm thinking that DWUW might not even reach its peak until january.

 

But seeing how much streaming weights on the Hot 100, it will peak once the video debuts 

[Marco 731]

I can't wait for tomorrow night. But I hope her performing Gypsy doesn't mean it's not going to be a single

[chris777 112]

I wouldn't count out Timber and Counting Stars of the possible contenders for DWUW.

And The Monster is still going strong, with the music video it will be even bigger on the Hot 100

[Mills 446]

Welcome to GGD!

 

I think DWUW could become one of her BIGGEST hits but I don't think it'll be for a while, especially with all of the Christmas songs which are currently on the horizon :(

 

Agreed. It could be. An AMA performance could send a song to #1, similar to how Firework ended 2010 as its closing chart-topper, but then again almost all major players in the game right now are also confirmed performing there. That leaves now to radio support and streaming to make the difference. The post-AMA week is where I think they should push DWUW really hard, given that the Muppets special is also slated on the last week of November. How exciting that sounds, right? The opportunity for DWUW is real. 

 

I wouldn't count out Timber and Counting Stars out of the possible contenders for DWUW.

And The Monster is still going strong, with the music video it will be even bigger on the Hot 100

 

True, TM isn't showing any sign of weakness yet. That's the biggest hindrance for any song to go to #1 this year. 

[Marco 731]

I hope DWUW turns out to be the hit it's meant to be. Would be great for the album sales too. 

The KIA commercial has been coming up a lot as an ad on YouTube. 

[Ray of Light 8,134]

DWUW is coming for that crossover airplay & Grammys.

[Arturo 40,746]

The Monster is the obvious next #1. If it doesn't go #1 on Wednesday, then it's 100% guaranteed it will next Wednesday. 

Crazy how Berzerk wasn't that big and Right Now and What Now flopped, but when those 2 get together it's a humongous smash. 

[Marco 731]

Imagine if Rihanna actually was on Sexxx Dreams and it was the 2nd/3rd single. The slayage

[Mills 446]

The Monster is the obvious next #1. If it doesn't go #1 on Wednesday, then it's 100% guaranteed it will next Wednesday. 

Crazy how Berzerk wasn't that big and Right Now and What Now flopped, but when those 2 get together it's a humongous smash. 

It literally got one monster hook, similar to how they pulled together back in 2010, which lacks in their respective previous releases. It has this advantage of hip-hop fans loving Eminem's verses as usual and non-hip-hop fans loving Rihanna's hook. It's the kind of thing I'd love for J&D to have somehow. 

[Griffin 6]

Did Applause really not chart in the Top 40 Digital Songs chart this week? I can't see it. If so, it's Hot 100 spot is incredible. 

[Marco 731]

It literally got one monster hook, similar to how they pulled together back in 2010, which lacks in their respective previous releases. It has this advantage of hip-hop fans loving Eminem's verses as usual and non-hip-hop fans loving Rihanna's hook. It's the kind of thing I'd love for J&D to have somehow. 

I think J&D definitely has that potential. Ugh I hope they send that song to urban radios.

[chris777 112]

The Monster is the obvious next #1. If it doesn't go #1 on Wednesday, then it's 100% guaranteed it will next Wednesday. 

Crazy how Berzerk wasn't that big and Right Now and What Now flopped, but when those 2 get together it's a humongous smash. 

True.

I guess it has alot to do with both stars on the same song.

 

And speaking of What Now, is rising more on iTunes (due to the video), I really hope it can in somehow reach top 40 on BB Hot 100 and maybe with streaming even top 30.

 

AMA's could give it a little push, I hope the song stays estable until then. But idk if she is going to perform it 

I think J&D definitely has that potential. Ugh I hope they send that song to urban radios.

Ugh, no. NEVER.

It doesn't deserves to be a single, not even an urban single  :sweep:

[Marco 731]

How many weeks has Applause been in the top 10 on BB now?