Luigi Mangione Expected To Plead Guilty

[PartySick 173,067]

3 minutes ago, timdrake said:

I have no problems with fighting for a cause, and causing a loud disruption to get your frustrations and message heard, but murder takes things too far. I believe violence begets more violence, and if every group decides that murder is okay to get their points across, we’re screwed even worse than things seem now. It’s terroristic to have murder in your back pocket as an acceptable method of advancing your cause, I feel. 

As I said, you'd have a hard time finding a right that we have today that wasn't won via violence. Not that I'm trying to moralize it, just making sense of it.

At the end of the day, they have the power and they're the ones deciding all the peaceful solutions we've come up with will never actually work. They insolate themselves from our political power which really leaves us with no other options.

Imo, it's on them.

In the same way occupation creates violent rebellion, abuse creates violent liberation, and dehumanization creates killers.

Just a fact of society tbh.

[timdrake 2,150]

1 minute ago, Bronco said:

Honestly, I hope Cheeto dies in prison or at worst natural causes. 
Making him a matyr would be a mistake like you say. 
And if Operation Valkyrie's failure taught us anything, sometimes the better outcome is not letting the lesser evils clean their guilt by sacrificing a larger evil. 

okay this is something where we can both agree haha. that bitch deserves to feeeeel his long drawn out comeuppance 

[PartySick 173,067]

3 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Honestly, I hope Cheeto dies in prison or at worst natural causes. 
Making him a matyr would be a mistake like you say. 
And if Operation Valkyrie's failure taught us anything, sometimes the better outcome is not letting the lesser evils clean their guilt by sacrificing a larger evil. 

I hope he lives to a ripe old 120, behind bars, body consistently deteriorating, mind slipping away further and further, with nothing but the echos of his victims and his dead ego banging around in that ugly skull of his  

We don't even need to go back that far to see how stupid it is to martyr certain people. Had we just let Ayatollah Ali Khamenei die of old age (dude was in his late 80s) Iran could be a vastly different place by now. But because our exalted leader caved to Bibi an even more sociopathic and hard lined leadership has been installed in Iran.

Sometimes it's best to just let evil decompose on its own.

[sarahb 17,211]

[Morphine Prince 109,720]

3 hours ago, timdrake said:

Peace isn't the only way to achieve things, but there's a whoooole ass spectrum of protest, or litigation, that can happen before resulting to vigilante murder. Isn't this why folks are so against the death penalty? 

Like, smashing some sh!t up in protest is still leaps and bounds better than killing someone, and that isn't necessarily "peaceful"

I just don't believe murder is the answer here (I know it's not, because the CEO was murdered and nothing changed, except heightened security), and to me it's just edgelord revolutionary larping to suggest that it is (not talking about you specifically MP) 

 

3 hours ago, timdrake said:

Glad to see this mentioned. Just because something happened historically, it doesn't mean it's right and would work to bring about change in 2026. 

And we can't lose sight of the fact that this was one guy who allegedly killed a CEO due to frustrations with the healthcare insurance complex. This wasn't a mass political revolution against a tyrannical government, a revolt against a genocidal regime, or other instances where historians could say "their hands were tied, this was the only answer,"... It was one guy, with a gun, against the CEO of his healthcare company. And nothing changed after the guy was shot. 

I think it’s important to note that health insurance companies have the government bought off and the law is increasingly becoming useless in holding them accountable. 

Luigi isn’t the one who will fix things. But his reaction to this broken system is one that we’ve seen before and has been supported by the working class. 

[Ilia Malinin 2,986]

i'm not gonna condone what luigi did, but i'm not gonna weep over the CEO.  part of me thinks i would've had to stop therapy and never would've gotten to where i am in my transition had that man lived.  subhuman scum, yes, but i'm not going to sit here and say "luigi wasn't guilty."

[AsleepOnTheCeiling 6,977]

8 hours ago, timdrake said:

I gotta agree with you here. I mean, give the guy his day in court, but while the initial search had been bungled up a bit, I can’t imagine not coming to the conclusion that he did the shooting.

I feel like people saying the opposite are either conspiracy theorists, or just don’t have sympathy for the wealthy health insurance CEO and want Luigi to walk free to send a message.

Or they just think Luigi is hot (which he is, but that doesn’t matter to the court 💀)

A big factor to me is the treatment of the case by law enforcement. The manhunt to find him was only successful because of who the "victim" was. In any other case they would have never even attempted to find him in a meaningful way. How will he be found guilty after the way the evidence was found and handled? And then there was the way they treated him and paraded him around while in custody as well. A conviction would be a miscarriage of justice simply because it would come at the cost of our rights as citizens. 

7 hours ago, timdrake said:

Glad to see this mentioned. Just because something happened historically, it doesn't mean it's right and would work to bring about change in 2026. 

And we can't lose sight of the fact that this was one guy who allegedly killed a CEO due to frustrations with the healthcare insurance complex. This wasn't a mass political revolution against a tyrannical government, a revolt against a genocidal regime, or other instances where historians could say "their hands were tied, this was the only answer,"... It was one guy, with a gun, against the CEO of his healthcare company. And nothing changed after the guy was shot. 

I have a question I'm surprised nobody has asked yet. How would you have wanted to see this issue handled? Not the murder, but the alternative to murder.

 

In a world where lawsuits cause penalties and fees to be paid by insurance companies, which indirectly cause consumer costs to increase. What would the solution be?

5 hours ago, PartySick said:

In the modern civil rights movement we had Martin Luther King Jr. who prayed for peace and equality, spoke against centrism, and led marches on Washington and state capitols to show how unified the people really were in the fight for racial justice.

We also had Malcom X who never directly called for violence but he DID champion the right to "self defense" saying "if the government isn't going to protect black Americans, black Americans must protect themselves", be it from the KKK, a hateful neighbor, the police, or government representatives gone bad.

He rejected passivity and the notion that black Americans had to remain peaceful in the face of violence.

And his speeches echoed President Kennedy's sentiments, "ballot or the bullet". When peaceful options are no longer on the table, violence becomes inevitable.

What is the sociopathic greed of millionaires and billionaires that causes the mass death of poor and middle class Americans if not violence? Over 50,000 Americans die every year because they lack access to healthcare which is roughly the same number of people who die due to gun violence.

Why should anybody expect pacifism in the face of that violence when we've been trying to fight that destructive, neigh-genocidal greed "the right way" for decades with politicians who STILL refuse to do the work we're begging them to do because their palms are getting greased by the same hands stained with our blood?

90% of Democratic voters and, depending on how you define "single payer healthcare", 20%-50% of Republican voters all support Medicare for All and yet we have, what? Four or five representatives in federal office even saying they support it?

Both MLK Jr. and Malcom X were necessary, just like peaceful people still pulling the lever for progressive candidates that'll work towards M4A and people like Luigi who give "soft" reminders to the upper class that we have other options and we're not afraid to use them if all others get exhausted.

Now ain't a time for pearl clutching, kids. Hell, from civil rights to workers' rights to our queer rights, you'd be hardpressed to find something we didn't have to fight and potentially kill for.

I think a much shorter answer here is that MLK Jr.'s assassination was the catalyst to a lot of civil rights milestones. Including the pressure to pass The Civil Rights Act of 1968 a week later.