Kamala Harris handles MAGA hecklers

[Didymus 34,380]

On 10/18/2024 at 2:55 AM, PartySick said:

I pray she wins. She has to. For the sake of every working class American, every American woman, every LGBTQ American, every immigrant, every citizen really  but also for our friends in Ukraine, our friends in Taiwan, our allies in Israel, and the people suffering in Palestine.

She is bad news for each of these groups minus one but ok.

[ElectricChapelR 2,411]

On 10/18/2024 at 3:55 AM, PartySick said:

but also for our friends in Ukraine, our friends in Taiwan, our allies in Israel, and the people suffering in Palestine.

Your friends in Ukraine?

US is the most hypocrite country in the world, starts and maintains the most conflicts in the whole ****ing world, way more than any other country on this planet combined. 

US is implied in almost every war in the last century.

But somehow your government convinced you that every single action is for peace, friends, allies and people suffering.

There are times when I think that American people should just eat McDonald's, drink lots of Coke and simply just shut the **** up 

[Didymus 34,380]

Just now, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Ngl pretty funny seeing @Didymuslike this while simultaneously acting like an authority on US politics. Go eat some speculoos and shut the **** up 

I liked it because that member correctly pointed out that the US's military decisions of the last four years have negatively impacted the same groups of people Kamala would now supposedly help, even when she says she will continue the same policies that led to the debilitating in the first place. It's plain lying, no need to be an authority on US politics to get that.

This isn't about US politics, even, this is global, and as a European whose economy was wrecked/whose country has to take in thousands of Ukrainian and Palestinian refugees due to American hubris, I do think I can say it's very questionable and arrogant to simply gloss over the negative impact a Kamala tenure will have on groups of people who are already in tenuous situations. Sure, the cheeto would also be bad news, you don't hear me deny that. But there's no need to lie about the other aggressor.

[Ladle Ghoulash 55,385]

4 minutes ago, Didymus said:

I liked it because that member correctly pointed out that the US's military decisions of the last four years have negatively impacted the same groups of people Kamala would now supposedly help, even when she says she will continue the same policies that led to the debilitating in the first place. It's plain lying, no need to be an authority on US politics to get that.

This isn't about US politics, even, this is global, and as a European whose economy was wrecked/whose country has to take in thousands of Ukrainian and Palestinian refugees due to American hubris, I do think I can say it's very questionable and arrogant to simply gloss over the negative impact a Kamala tenure will have on groups of people who are already in tenuous situations. Sure, the cheeto would also be bad news, you don't hear me deny that. But there's no need to lie about the other aggressor.

So which of the groups that PartySick originally mentioned would Kamala allegedly be bad for (American women, LGBTQ+ Americans, working class Americans, American immigrants)? You said she’d be bad for all but one, curious which you think falls where and why. 
 

Also: claiming Ukrainian and Palestinian refugees are fleeing to other countries because of “American hubris”’is insanely reductive (and pretty inaccurate). 

[Didymus 34,380]

1 minute ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

So which of the groups that PartySick originally mentioned would Kamala allegedly be bad for (American women, LGBTQ+ Americans, working class Americans, American immigrants)? You said she’d be bad for all but one, curious which you think falls where and why. 

The groups I underlined...

[Didymus 34,380]

Just now, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Yeah, didn’t realize the underline was an edit. Not sure why you’re being such a **** about it tbh 

How can you not be sure about that after you first mocked my post (which is fine though I'd obvi prefer an actual counterargument) and then described me as someone who pretends to be an authority but really needs to stay quiet while still not presenting a counterargument, only to then ask me to explain what I really meant. It's just a shitty way to have a conversation and it irritates me because I actually really like you

7 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Also: claiming Ukrainian and Palestinian refugees are fleeing to other countries because of “American hubris”’is insanely reductive (and pretty inaccurate). 

I get why it looks that way but eh. I think at this point it's pretty undeniable that the US deliberately provoked and cornered Russia into a military escalation and even after that consciously allowed Ukraine to sink the entire European economy while burdening it with yet another refugee challenge.

The Palestinian thing is not really worth responding to tbh lol. The US has singlehandedly blocked every single international political attempt to secure staiblity in Palestine for over a decade now. They are also singlehandedly making sure that Israel continues expanding illegal settlements. So, actually, yes, it is entirely fair to say that Kamala will continue to ruin many Palestinian lives even without factoring in her enthusiasm for funding the systematic execution of civilians.

[PartySick 174,978]

41 minutes ago, ElectricChapelR said:

There are times when I think that American people should just eat McDonald's, drink lots of Coke and simply just shut the **** up

Well, we're the voters that pick the people who run the most powerful government in the world so good luck with this thought, I guess 

Sorry you guys can't see the optimism in the present administration and the hope for the new one. I hope your respective governments are able to enact the changes you'd like to see!

Anyway, I never claimed America was perfect but I can be proud of the good we do while acknowledging the failures when they happen...and there are many, yet none that make me ashamed to be an American  

Not picking any fights in this thread or reading any more novels. I'm too busy vibing to the thoughts of electing yet another president I can be proud of  

[Didymus 34,380]

1 minute ago, PartySick said:

Well, we're the voters that pick the people who run the most powerful government in the world so good luck with this thought, I guess 

Sorry you guys can't see the optimism in the present administration and the hope for the new one. I hope your respective governments are able to enact the changes you'd like to see!

Anyway, I never claimed America was perfect but I can be proud of the good we do while acknowledging the failures when they happen...and there are many, yet none that make me ashamed to be an American 

I get the optimism, I just don't get the efforts to fabricate. It's entirely possible to support Kamala and explain why she is the better president without pretending she's somehow "good news" for Palestinians, Ukrainians and Taiwanese. She's not. Between these candidates, it's bad news all around.

No need to be ashamed to be American, also no need to be congratulated that you once again managed to make the world depend on a choice between two war mongerers. Things are complex, obvi, but then why fear the complexity? I'm happy to read what areas Kamala will positively impact, interested even. But mostly I see a lot of fluff and glossing over. I spend a lot of time in the US and it always baffles me that, esp during election cycles, the convos get so infantilized.

[PartySick 174,978]

3 minutes ago, Didymus said:

it's bad news all around

I disagree

At worst, it's neutral vs objectively worse. One candidate literally wants nukes dropped on Gaza and the other wants to do what we can to form an independent Palestinian state. I don't see how both are "bad news" just 'cause neither will agree to leave Israel defenseless.

4 minutes ago, Didymus said:

But mostly I see a lot of fluff and glossing over. I spend a lot of time in the US and it always baffles me that, esp during election cycles, the convos get so infantilized.

Well you see, my friend, Americans are ✨stupid✨

Even I'm not immune to this sh*t and I'll freely admit that until November 10th-ish I'll be insufferably in full patriot/nationalist mode with nothing but red white and blue in my veins and screeching eagles in my ears. I might even pick up the fiddle, you don't know 

But beyond that, I'm personally less of an interventionalist. Keep in mind I was raised as a very strong conservative and eventually landed on a liberal mindset 'cause that's just what makes sense in reality. Regardless, I don't want the US to police the world.

Throwing support behind an ally (like sending military supplies to Ukraine to fight off a Russian invasion) is cool, but my absolute main concern, at least 99% of my attention, is going towards domestic issues. I'm not "America first" or anything but when selecting the American president you're damn right I'll be considering America and Americans before anything else

It's that domestic mindset that makes me feel proud to have Biden as a president, proud to vote for and hopefully elect Harris, and proud to live in the US.

Do I love that we're basically using Ukraine as a proxy to beat back Russia 'cause Putin's a threat to our security? Nope

Do I love that American politics are intertwined with Israel and we're fiercely reliant on them for national security in the Middle East? Of course not

Do I love that the US is almost entirely responsible for the instability in the Middle East 'cause we've been f*cking around there since at least the cold war? Nah

Do I accept these situations as reality and then adopt an optimistic mindset on how to make the best out of them? Yup! 

And I'm proud to vote for the candidate that wants Ukraine's borders respected, Palestine to be a free and independent state, and *insert a million domestic policies here*  

Did not mean to ramble but it's 5am, I'm in a great mood, and I'm absolutely vibing right now so you get what you get I will not be prey to nihilism or pessimism. I believe we can do great things but we need a stable leader in this country before we can even pretend to be capable of that.

[Didymus 34,380]

1 hour ago, PartySick said:

One candidate literally wants nukes dropped on Gaza and the other wants to do what we can to form an independent Palestinian state. I don't see how both are "bad news" just 'cause neither will agree to leave Israel defenseless.

First of all, I like your post a lot but I still can't get over this one, so here I go

Kamala has opposed describing Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem as illegal. She, in fact, criticized Obama for simply abstaining instead of vetoing the UN Security Council resolution that called these settlements illegal. She (along with Republicans, countering Democrats) co-sponsored a Senate resolution that denies the UN the right to even weigh in on this matter.

So, "do what we can", what is that code for?

She doesn't want to drop nukes on Gaza, that is correct. She instead prefers to extend this misery for several more decades while convincing her voters she's not an Israeli shill, which her track record shows she clearly is. Again, doesn't mean you or others shouldn't vote for her. But why the misinformation? Kamala has not done one single thing to advance a Palestinian state, quite the opposite. So why feel the need to throw that in there every time as if it's true? It's not.

1 hour ago, PartySick said:

It's that domestic mindset that makes me feel proud to have Biden as a president, proud to vote for and hopefully elect Harris, and proud to live in the US.

...

I will not be prey to nihilism or pessimism. I believe we can do great things but we need a stable leader in this country before we can even pretend to be capable of that.

Totally get and respect the rest of the post. I deeply value that realism also.

I mean, I do disagree that speaking factually (Kamala's direct support for Israel will always outweigh her performative support for Palestine and pretending it won't is misleading other voters) would somehow be the same thing as being nihilistic or pessimistic. We can hold the facts ánd be optimistic about the things we can afford to be optimistic about, no?

I think this desire to somehow manufacture a clean conscience before casting a vote is disturbing and unhealthy. It's ok to vote against things you also value. That's life.

[Morphine Prince 110,034]

@Didymus

Went through all the posts here but I’m stumped on your Ukraine comments.

Why is the blame on Ukraine not being placed mostly on Russia and instead on the US provoking Russia? I’m confused. 

I see Putin out here actively trying to get Trump elected, which I take as a sign that Trump would advance his interests. Meanwhile Harris denounces Russia at every opportunity. 

[Didymus 34,380]

14 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

@Didymus

Went through all the posts here but I’m stumped on your Ukraine comments.

Why is the blame on Ukraine not being placed mostly on Russia and instead on the US provoking Russia? I’m confused. 

I see Putin out here actively trying to get Trump elected, which I take as a sign that Trump would advance his interests. Meanwhile Harris denounces Russia at every opportunity. 

In short:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

[Purrrrrr 18,534]

8 hours ago, Jay23 said:

Every single thing you say has been debunked and proven to be nothing but a pathetic attempt to spread misinformation and hate. Again, let’s be pragmatic here. Please provide me with credible sources to your claims! (Facebook memes don’t count )

.. you can literally go find videos of him saying these things..

 

inb4 "bUt iT wAs TaKen oUt of conText/1!!

[Morphine Prince 110,034]

28 minutes ago, Didymus said:

In short:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Although I do agree how NATO expansion is seen as an act of aggression by Russia, this war with Ukraine also led to Sweden and Finland joining, which just advances NATO’s interests. They joined directly because of the fear Russia would do the same to them as they did to Ukraine. Which kinda justifies the existence and expansion of NATO? 

Russia had been in Ukraine for nearly a decade at this point (Crimea), I see it as an excuse to invade further and Russia took the opportunity. 

I don’t disagree US and the West’s foreign policy is garbage, but Russia deliberately made the decision to invade (just as they had wanted to for a while) so they aren’t blameless and certainly NATO isn’t fully responsible for it happening, in my opinion. 

Russia has a history of invading other neighboring countries in the recent past too, Georgia immediately comes to mind. 

[Bronco 28,269]

5 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

Although I do agree how NATO expansion is seen as an act of aggression by Russia,

Honestly the expansion of NATO into ex-Warsaw pact states can only be seen as an act of aggression if Russia's long term aims was to reconsolidate the Warsaw pact states and it sees NATO as a threat to that aim. And it is Russia's behaviour on this issue towards ex-Warsaw pact states that ultimately led to those States persuing NATO membership.