Ur So Gay Will Always Prevent Katy Perry From Being A Gay Icon

[FGGrayson 9,670]

5 hours ago, tylerjs said:

While I agree personally, the gay community actually loves this song (many of them, anyway). It’s so off the wall stupid and offensive that it’s almost camp, in a weird way. I think it’s a kind of reclamation but also a sign of the times. Idk, I hate her for who she is and I think she lacks any notable talent, but I think that song if anything is one of the few redeeming instances of her true artistry (even if she didn’t mean it in a “that’s actually good” way)

We need a downvote option

[HotLikeMexico 4,714]

Ur So Gay is ****ing campy and funny.

[Reject False Icons 4,718]

What shocked me more that the song’s lyrics is that Madonna publicly said it was a great song  

I guess I’ll never understand those old generations of lgbt people who still have a very heteronormative point of view, are very aggressive, grew up in a much more violent environment, and believed there was something wrong with them but well they are absolutely full of traumas and that’s why they view that song as nothing wrong 

 

[OliviaRodrigoStan 4,664]

Well, is not even like that song was just "an old mistake" in her career. During her international breakthrough, she performed it live in Germany, dedicating the song to Tokio Hotel's Bill Kaulitz, a gay man that was commonly bullied for his feminine looks at the time: 

 

So... . I don't think she's homophobic, but she was willingly and proudly ignorant, even during her peak.

She's probably changed now, I would like to believe. People grow up, and change too. 

[MadArchitect 676]

6 hours ago, Didymus said:

 

She's been very wishy washy about it to the point of even her fans not being able to keep up with her sexual identity. That's her own business but she did intentionally seek out a gay audience in her early days and even worked with a dedicated company to make sure she had a gay audience that could launch her into stardom. This is documented and not a secret, nor is it unique.

She's just part of an industry that knows gay people make money, period. That has little to do with her personally but there's a big difference between that industry situation and, say, Madonna who was willingly risking her career to end by supporting gay rights in the middle of the AIDS crisis. Madonna is a gay icon for that reason and no other (good) reason.

And, yes, now that Gaga is aiming to be a Hollywood staple, she gets less vocal, surprise. Is that an improvement or her strategically choosing when to be an ally and when not? She shocked many of us by deliberately evading a question about her sexual identity (in the context of representation) as part of her promo run for House of Gucci and, instead, explicitly identifying as a mere "supporter" of the LGBT community. That was wild tbh, as that interviewer was clearly acknowledging her as being a queer nominated person and she basically threw it back in their face.

And then we have Justin Tranter saying plainly what some of us have been thinking for years: she just doesn't really care. That's fine with me. I don't expect straight or vaguely bi people to care about gay rights. But then maybe it's also time we stop categorizing these "supporters" as gay icons.

"wishy washy"

 

5 hours ago, Didymus said:

It's not one question. She's been making puzzling statements for years and has raised this question multiple times, most infamously on Drag Race where she again explicitly implied she is not part of the LGBT community. Her only unambiguous statement about being bisexual was in 2013, to Attitude, but in that same interview she also said she is not a "gay icon" and would prefer it if people called her a "gay supporter".

Also, I literally wrote in my post that her sexual identity is her own business and we shouldn't care about that. My point was about whether or not we've moved on from calling female pop stars "gay icons" when we actually have out and proud queer people who deserve that title. People responded to me saying "she is out and proud queer" and all I meant to say was she's clearly not comfortable with people addressing her like one.

If she is clearly distancing herself from being called a gay icon, then maybe let's not call her that? Anyway, I wasn't meaning to make a big statement. Back to Katy's song being hateful pls.

@NATAH @palma @Real Panda

quoting isolated instances that were not meant to unstate her bisexuelity, on RDR se simply said she wasn't a "gay woman" in the context meaning a full lesbian, pricisely bc she's bi, and she has also stated several times she doesnt consider herself a gay icon cause she thinks autodefine oneself like that is hedonistic, and that is a title that ppl give to you, not the other way arond, thats just her not claiming titles by herself that come from a community with so many people that's been underpriviledged and disfranchised in ways that she hasn't, but she's still part of, and none of that erases her bisexuality which she has been CLEAR about, out and proud since literally 2008.

[MadArchitect 676]

8 hours ago, tylerjs said:

While I agree personally, the gay community actually loves this song (many of them, anyway). It’s so off the wall stupid and offensive that it’s almost camp, in a weird way. I think it’s a kind of reclamation but also a sign of the times. Idk, I hate her for who she is and I think she lacks any notable talent, but I think that song if anything is one of the few redeeming instances of her true artistry (even if she didn’t mean it in a “that’s actually good” way)

the gay community inside katy's fandom who delude themselves into making her a gay icon? lmao maybe that, cause the gay community outside her pop culture bias hated and criticized heavily this song even at the time, and with the years it has only aged like milk and the criticism stengten much more when it comes queer discurse on pop culture and repressentation.

really, tell me, what is there to "recclaim" on a song about a seamingly heterosexual man that she dated before and from her perspective she thinks of as pathetic, and to make fun of him she mocks the stereotipically femenine or gay traits he has, clearly using the word gay in a derogatory way, she makes the butt of the joke that he acts so gay even tho he isnt, even suggesting suic*de for how pathetic she thinks he is... what is "campy" about that? lmao, if anything it is the opposite of actual camp sensibilities which come from fighting back and defying with nerve the same stereotypes and heteronormativity this song perpetuates...

Edited July 31, 2024 by MadArchitect

[StrawberryBlond 14,330]

Thing is, apart from using gay as an insult, there's no other actual gay specific put-downs in the song. It's all about Katy falling for an emo boy and she lists all the emo stereotypes (vegetarian, being skinny, reading Hemmingway in the rain, etc) and frames them in a negative way because she's annoyed he isn't paying her attention. Totally understand how people just heard her using the word negatively and assumed it came from a homophobic place, though. Using gay to mean "sad" or "uncool" was an unfortunate trend at the time and when Katy broke out, she was a lot more indie pop and marketed herself on being a bit emo and different, so she could get away with weird and risque lyrics (no other mpg would put the word "penis" in a song). I remember way back in the early days I saw a YouTube comment that said "why are all her songs about gay people?" But then she unexpectedly blew up and this somewhat edgy, racy indie pop girl no longer cut the mustard. She had to be sanitisied and made more generic to fit this new popular role. Hence why her team desperately tried to bury this song and reframe I Kissed A Girl as her lead single instead.

Naturally, using the word "gay" as an insult was a whole lot more acceptable in 2008. We forget how long ago 16 years was. I'm sure if she was starting out today, she'd never write such a song. She's said herself if there's one song that she'd elect to re-write to move with the times, it would be I Kissed A Girl. Clearly, without even a mention of Ur So Gay, she likes to pretend this song never existed as she's so embarrassed about it. Ultimately, she made this just as the word was starting to be called out for being really problematic and she was catching the tail end of a trend. No sooner had it been released, it was dated. 

[27monster27 11,976]

While I had no idea about the Tokio Hotel shade...

I always found Ur So Gay to be calling out the right stereotype of straight man, and I am saying this as a huge LGBTQ+ rights activist. I just left college, and I ran into some of these guys that were really outwardly disrespectful and fake, which is what some lines in the song were about. At the end of the day it's important to remember that this song was inspired by an ex of hers calling her gay.

There was a really good reaction video to Ur So Gay that summed up the meaning pretty nicely, but it seems to have been deleted.
 

[NicoWe1993 102]

10 hours ago, Jigglygoth said:

Well, is not even like that song was just "an old mistake" in her career. During her international breakthrough, she performed it live in Germany, dedicating the song to Tokio Hotel's Bill Kaulitz, a gay man that was commonly bullied for his feminine looks at the time: 

 

So... . I don't think she's homophobic, but she was willingly and proudly ignorant, even during her peak.

She's probably changed now, I would like to believe. People grow up, and change too. 

She also did that in Malaysia (MTV Worldstage) and Singapore (Singfest) when they shared the stage and she performed her set just directly before their set. She's just a bad person imo. 

[OliviaRodrigoStan 4,664]

Just now, NicoWe1993 said:

She also did that in Malaysia (MTV Worldstage) and Singapore (Singfest) when they shared the stage and she performed her set just directly before their set. She's just a bad person imo. 

It feels insensitive because I think at the time Bill was very young, and was open about the online hate he received, because of his feminine looks. He was not out of the closet either at that point. 

I chose to believe she is a different woman now. She grew up in a conservative household, and a lot of her early speech is a reflection of that. 

Maybe she changed, now. But back then, she was far from being the most deconstructed girl in the block. 

[eeveevil 51]

23 hours ago, HelloHangoverz said:

A little OT but I find it so interesting how something can be reclaimable for one gay but, for another, it's out of the question. Like f@g I understand but Ur So Gay just gives off a kind of disgusting energy to me. Like how are people reclaiming that?  But it's not a criticism. People probably feel the same way about the word f@g whereas I'm fine with it, it's how it goes.

I think it's how people approach things. I take everything unseriously and love satire, so Ur So Gay feels almost like a goodhearted joke to me, whereas I talk to other people who are more serious than me and feel offended. I don't think it's the only factor, but this is my experience

[MadArchitect 676]

On 8/1/2024 at 8:14 AM, eeveevil said:

I think it's how people approach things. I take everything unseriously and love satire, so Ur So Gay feels almost like a goodhearted joke to me, whereas I talk to other people who are more serious than me and feel offended. I don't think it's the only factor, but this is my experience

 

On 7/31/2024 at 11:21 PM, 27monster27 said:

I always found Ur So Gay to be calling out the right stereotype of straight man, and I am saying this as a huge LGBTQ+ rights activist. I just left college, and I ran into some of these guys that were really outwardly disrespectful and fake, which is what some lines in the song were about. At the end of the day it's important to remember that this song was inspired by an ex of hers calling her gay.

"goodhearted joke" she literally tells him to kill himself in the first line lol, also she's not calling out a harmful stereotype, she's producing it herself, of all the things that she lists in the song, none of it really reveals that he's inmoral, disrespectful or worthy to be making fun of,  she does suggest that he's fake, but also none of the things listed automatically makes somebody fake, or not real, she's just annoyed that he's depressed, has more niche/alternative tastes, wears more make up than her, and prefers to be doing other things rather than be with her, and that is the joke, that is all the satire... that he acts gay, and she's in disbelief of how could she ever even fall in love with somebody like that, the core messaging it's literally homophobic, the target not being actually gay doesnt make it less homophobic, and even if it was the case that the negative gays stigma was being used to shame disrespectful/fake people, it's still homophobic, what are these mental gymnastics? 

Edited August 4, 2024 by MadArchitect

[MadArchitect 676]

Just now, MadArchitect said:

 

"goodhearted joke" she literally tells him to kill himself in the first line lol, also she's not calling out a harmful stereotype, she's producing it herself, of all the things that she lists in the song, none of it really reveals that he's inmoral, disrespectful or worthy to be making fun of,  she does suggest that hes fake, but also none of the things listed automatically makes somebody fake, or not real, she's just annoyed that he's depressed, has more niche/alternative tastes, wears more make up than her, and prefers to be doing other things rather than be with her, and that is the joke, that is all the satire... that he acts gay, and she's in disbelief of how could se ever even fall in love with somebody like that, the core messaging it's literally homophobic, the target not being actually gay doesnt make it less homophobic, what are these mental gymnastics? 

not to mention the dismissal of depression and a possible eating disorder in the most vapid way, "oh you're depressed? just be happy! oh your're too skinny, just eat!" everytime i reread those lyrics i find them worse

[robotvoiceinalice 1,179]

On 7/31/2024 at 9:47 PM, MadArchitect said:

"wishy washy"

 

quoting isolated instances that were not meant to unstate her bisexuelity, on RDR se simply said she wasn't a "gay woman" in the context meaning a full lesbian, pricisely bc she's bi, and she has also stated several times she doesnt consider herself a gay icon cause she thinks autodefine oneself like that is hedonistic, and that is a title that ppl give to you, not the other way arond, thats just her not claiming titles by herself that come from a community with so many people that's been underpriviledged and disfranchised in ways that she hasn't, but she's still part of, and none of that erases her bisexuality which she has been CLEAR about, out and proud since literally 2008.

Thank you. 

[palma 7,737]

Anyway. 

Gaga: Gay Icon

Katy: