Another Boeing plane loses panel mid-air

[Pennywise 36,080]

4 minutes ago, Future Lovers said:

I don't think anything of it because 

1) The investigation is not complete yet 

2) The 500 feet quote is more than likely an interpretation of what it felt like rather than what actually took place (and I'll explain why in just a moment)

3) This occurred over a matter of seconds

4) It is not possible for a plane to just drop out of the sky which is what I referenced in #2 

To explain #4 more:

Think of the air like a big bowl of jello. Jello is a semi-solid and when you stick something into it, that thing stays suspended within the jello. That is what a plane does on the air. Though we think of the air as thin and light, when you're moving at the speed an airplane is, the air is thick and heavy. Think of when you put your hand out of the moving car window and it glides on the air and it's impossible for you to push it down without concentrated effort. That is what happens to a plane up in the air moving at speed.  

The air is physically keeping your plane in the air. This happens because planes are designed to create their own lift by the way the air comes off of the wings (this is why the wings and slats are sloped). It is not scientifically possible for an airplane to simply drop out of the sky, even in turbulence. In turbulence, yes a plane can lose some altitude of a couple of hundred feet, but even then it is not possible for the plane to lose flight. Physics doesn't work that way. 

The absolute only way that a plane can fall from the sky is if there is an input, intentional or unintentional, from a flight control to make that happen. In some high profile accidents in the past, this is what sent a plane down: a failure that emulated an input control. 

Did you know that a plane will not even fall from the sky if it loses both of it's engines at the same time? It will simply continue to glide on the air, making a slow, gradual descent that the pilot will be in total control of provided the engine failure was not the result of an incident that destroyed the plane in the air. 

But the brilliant thing about these crashes is that it led to the thing that caused them being fixed and it is not possible for them to happen anymore. If you'd like me to tell you about some specific crashes that led to changes to make a repeat impossible, I can. 

I will also add that what we feel inside of an airplane is not always (in fact is rarely) a reflection of reality. In an airplane, we cannot see forward, only to the side and in limited capacity. That means our brains cannot truly rationalize what each movement of the plane is. Example: when a plane turns, it feels like an incredibly steep bank angle to us when in reality, it is not possible due to the programs on airplanes for a plane to bank more than 30 degrees via steering input. Another example: when we take off, the incline feels steep when it's in reality only around 15 degrees nose up. 

All that to say, sensations within an airplane are not reliable. It may feel like they were in a free fall for 500+ feet, but the chances of that being accurate are incredibly low. Did they lose some altitude quickly? Probably yes. To a dangerous degree? Nope! Was anyone who was wearing a seatbelt hurt? Nope! Were the people who weren't wearing a seatbelt and therefore got injured injured in any way that was threatening to their life, required hospitalization, or anything like that? Nope! 

There has not been a fatal air crash in the US in 15 years. To put that into context, there are an average of 46,000 flights every day in the US. That's an average of 16.4 million flights per year. So in the fifteen years since that 2009 crash, there's been about 246 million flights. All 246 million of them landed without a single fatality, and less than 1% of them landed due to any sort of emergency. 

Omg you know a lot about this

 

this does make me feel a bit better, thank u 

 

(although there's a part of me that goes "so it's been 15 years you say.... about time for another, right?" )

[Future Lovers 7,680]

Just now, Pennywise said:

Omg you know a lot about this

 

this does make me feel a bit better, thank u 

 

(although there's a part of me that goes "so it's been 15 years you say.... about time for another, right?" 

I know because I used to be terrified of flying. So I solved it by taking a special course that was offered at my local airport by a retired pilot (he flew everything from Boeings, to Airbuses, to even the Concorde) and that class taught us all about how airplanes work and the science that gets an airplane into, out of, and through the air. 

The fear of flying is rooted in a lack of understanding of flight. And that’s natural! Humans cannot fly. We rely on a machine to do it for us. But that machine is complex and has gone through so many phases that we now know more about how a plane moves through the air than we do about how a bird moves through the air. 

And that is what the media preys on when these very common “incidents” (I use that term loosely) happen. They prey upon the majority of the population not knowing enough about the science of flight and the parts of an airplane to be able to recognize when something is a much smaller deal than it’s being made out to be. 

As for the about time for another thing, I also thought that too when I was afraid. But here’s the thing: even prior to 2009, the odds of getting into a plane crash were still incredibly low. Even further, the odds of DYING in one were even lower. 

When you think about it like that you realize just how remote the possibility of not only the plane you’re stepping onto being The One is, but how remote the possibility of there being The One period is. 

I’m not going to say there will never be another one. There unfortunately probably will be. But I can almost guarantee you that it will not be a result of a mechanical error.  It is in fact rare event even within the category of a crash (itself a rare event) that the plane itself is what caused the crash. That 2009 crash? Pilot error. The 2001 Brooklyn crash? Pilot error. The deadliest aviation accident in history (the Tenerife runway collision)? Pilot error.

You know how many current pilots are trained on simulations of all of those accidents plus hundreds of others? Every pilot in the sky today. Pilots are trained on past accidents. That means we know exactly how every single crash scenario that has led to someone dying could have been safely averted. 

Flying gets a lot easier when you think of the stats like that. 

[POPANEINONEONE 280]

6 hours ago, Pennywise said:

I have four Boeing flights in May and June 

Boeing 737-800 (domestic) (with United )

Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner (intercontinental) (Also with United )

Boeing 737-800 (international) (x2)

 

bye sistren I guess 

Horrified looks from everyone in the room😲

[Economy 52,901]

5 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

This is what I found: 

"Out of $54 billion, airlines must repay $14 billion, or 26.2%, and Treasury holds warrants currently worth approximately $200 million, a Commerce Committee memo says. Treasury also extended $25 billion in low-cost government loans to carriers." 

Ok thats fair. So more is given away than payed back so I agree with criticism then.

 

I just asked cuz i think its an extremely important distinction to make when criticizing Corporate Bailouts as they can take many different forms

 

Loans or injections via stock buys (which typically result in profit for government and tax payers cuz they are bought at depressed prices and usually resold once things stabalize) is a very different thing from money grants that are just given away

 

In emergency situations like Covid (or 2008 financial crisis), i am not against Corporate supports to prevent severe downward spirals or bankruptcies that may result in even less competition.

 

But i also think any money given for free should be reserved for everyday workers and small companies.

 

Larger companies that have made big success and have larger resources to work with as a general rule should receive loans or asset purchases so u dont end up in a situation where institutions at the top that are already the wealthy receive wealth transfers from the system

[Economy 52,901]

5 hours ago, David Ward said:

It's true that sensationalism exists in media coverage, however, dismissing concerns about recent flight mishaps involving Boeing is overly simplistic and potentially dangerous. 

While it's fortunate that there haven't been fatalities, we must acknowledge that incidents can serve as warnings of potential issues that need to be addressed. Waiting for a catastrophic event before taking action is not a prudent approach to safety.

The fact that Boeing planes are under intense scrutiny is not necessarily a guarantee of safety. Regulatory agencies like the FAA work to mitigate risks, but they also have limitations and can be influenced by various factors including political and economic pressures. Past incidents, such as the Boeing 737 MAX crashes, have revealed shortcomings in both Boeing's practices and regulatory oversight.

This!

 

One of the main things u learn in safety in an industrial workplace is that the goal is to prevent accidents before they even occur not to learn from accidents after they happen

 

If theres concerns they are using subpar parts or manufacturing practices it needs scruitiny before something happens, not after a plane crashes and people die

[Edonis 28,974]

10 hours ago, Future Lovers said:

It does. 

The only wildly abnormal thing that has happened on a Boeing is the door on Alaska Air which is a design flaw that has been fixed. Instrument panel problems, shedding landing gear, all of it happens all the time and you never hear about it.

Know why?

Because it isn’t serious. The media would like you to believe it is but not a single one of the issues that have been reported on in regards to Boeing ever put the plane in danger of crashing. Not one. Zero.

You’re only hearing about this because of the media storm, which will go away.  

In-flight issues absolutely happen, but not at the rate observed in Boeing. I don’t doubt there is an element of media sensationalism driving coverage of these stories, but with flying, passengers are always going to be hesitant when safety concerns are brought to light. 

[Future Lovers 7,680]

47 minutes ago, Edonis said:

In-flight issues absolutely happen, but not at the rate observed in Boeing. I don’t doubt there is an element of media sensationalism driving coverage of these stories, but with flying, passengers are always going to be hesitant when safety concerns are brought to light. 

I don’t mean for this to sound as alarming as it may and I will elaborate more on it after but Boeing isn’t experiencing issues at a rate that’s exactly abnormal. These issues are just being reported on with more frequency. 

Airplanes all over the world experience very similar difficulties every day whether it be panel issues, engine issues, landing gear shedding, tech issues, etc. They just don’t tend to make the news because either the issue was not severe enough to prompt anything more than a premature landing (the media has incorrectly reported some of the Boeing events as an emergency landing when they were not, in many of them no emergency was ever declared by the crew) or no one but the flight crew knew about the issue because they completed the flight as normal. 

Boeing is under the microscope right now so every single little thing that happens to them makes news. If they hadn’t been in the news, very few if any of these things would’ve made news because they also happened to an airbus that day, or an old DC-10. 

That’s why I consider the reporting to be irresponsible. There is indeed something to be said (a lot in fact) on the behavior of Boeing’s executives and the stances they take and decisions they make. But the media has falsely made people believe that these things are out of the ordinary and that they’re happening to Boeing planes more often than they’re happening to others, neither of which is true. 

I absolutely understand why people are nervous and even scared. I’m just trying to point out that it’s the media that’s causing those feelings rather than the events themselves because if the media was truthful and accurate about the details of these events, people would understand how benign they truly were.

I fully support applying pressure to Boeing to do better as a company in many, many aspects. But I cannot support the narrative the media wants to run with of Boeing planes being death machines when that just isn’t reality. 

[David Ward 9,613]

9 hours ago, Future Lovers said:

 

3) This occurred over a matter of seconds

 

okay, but weren't people literally stuck on the ceiling, screaming and crying for their life?

[Future Lovers 7,680]

1 hour ago, David Ward said:

okay, but weren't people literally stuck on the ceiling, screaming and crying for their life?

Some passengers that were not buckled in yes indeed hit the ceiling. Yes they likely panicked, because of course it was scary! But their lives were never in danger and their injuries are minor. 

You’d be surprised at how often people who’re not buckled in end up hitting the ceiling on planes if they happen to be standing during unexpected turbulence or a quick descent. I’ve bumped my head before because I was unbuckled when I wasn’t supposed to be as a teen. 

We actually already know what likely caused this incident ( @Pennywise I want you to see this too) and it was not a failure of the plane in anyway. It was a cockpit accident: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/15/business/latam-airlines-flight-cause

[Pennywise 36,080]

1 hour ago, David Ward said:

okay, but weren't people literally stuck on the ceiling, screaming and crying for their life?

I don't know why this is so funny to me but I laughed  

22 minutes ago, Future Lovers said:

@Pennywise I want you to see this too

I appreciate all this so much! 

[XxBones 1,266]

On 3/15/2024 at 5:16 PM, RAMROD said:

I have a flight with Boeing tomorrow

Let me just..,

How was your flight? I have a flight this week I need some reassurance lol 

[RAMROD 117,256]

5 minutes ago, XxBones said:

How was your flight? I have a flight this week I need some reassurance lol 

My flight was okay but got some loud babies, wveryone were joking anout the same issues, but during this time I'll take that over the technical errors  

[Future Lovers 7,680]

Also just putting it out there as more news comes forward: 

NONE of the incidents that have made the news recently are shaping up to be a Boeing problem. All of them are being pointed to the airline itself or typical wear on the part in question that is universal across all manufacturers. 

I once again repeat that all this media storm in these initial reports that’s gotten everyone in a tizzy was for nothing. The media doesn’t tell the truth about aviation events because the truth doesn’t drive clicks and that’s why the follow ups revealing the benign truth don’t get much push. 

Stop allowing them to do it by believing them.