Kamala Harris calls for ceasefire in Gaza

[Aren 965]

18 minutes ago, Citrom said:

Can i ask kindly (from Central Europe) why are people so upset about this particular war? There is war in Ukraine, in the Middle East, people and children dying everywhere and it seems like people doesn’t care about them like this one.

Anti-semitism. A big segment (not everyone, of course) of pro-Palestinian supporters are just plain old anti-Semites. That includes Muslim extremists, both the far-right and the far-left, neo-Nazis etc. None of those groups actually care about Palestinians, they just use the war as an excuse to hate on Jews.

[faysalaaa 5,382]

4 hours ago, Aren said:

Anti-semitism. A big segment (not everyone, of course) of pro-Palestinian supporters are just plain old anti-Semites. That includes Muslim extremists, both the far-right and the far-left, neo-Nazis etc. None of those groups actually care about Palestinians, they just use the war as an excuse to hate on Jews.

No its because the Israel-Palestine kind of war should not exist in the 21st Century. Its a war of taking other peoples land based on religion, DNA, and history. Saying its just anti semitic is not accurate!

[River 129,135]

just like the previous ceasefires? this lame temporary solution never worked and will never work.

[alsemanche 97,855]

1 hour ago, Citrom said:

Can i ask kindly (from Central Europe) why are people so upset about this particular war? There is war in Ukraine, in the Middle East, people and children dying everywhere and it seems like people doesn’t care about them like this one.

That's not exactly true. The ukraine war was/is still being talked about everywhere,  so are other terrible events (in varying degrees of course) such as the Congo or Armenia. We tend to not see such things as often because so much of our media/news consumption is now algorithmic and so bigger news that are of interest at the moment tend to be pushed to the forefront.  

[NarlesLM 497]

"ok guys we are now ready to stop the killing for 6 whole weeks because we are such good folks, look how we bring order to the planet"

After that, our war based economy will continue to prosper because it's so important to spend money in arms and bullets so our allies can kill whoever they want in the middle east as long as we continue to receive that money back from our *good* investment 

 

I'm so sorry for you Americans who lives under such a cretins politics and only have two options (red or blue). The biggest democracy in the world is so laughable...

[dit 46,738]

3 hours ago, Citrom said:

Can i ask kindly (from Central Europe) why are people so upset about this particular war? There is war in Ukraine, in the Middle East, people and children dying everywhere and it seems like people doesn’t care about them like this one.

Lots of reasons: 

1) This is the first genocide that is being live broadcast in real time. Sorry but you cannot see the scores of people dying without getting so triggered

2) The ratio of civilian and child deaths is kind of unprecedented in the 21st century conflicts so far. 

3) This is the quickest starvation of a people in recorded history (this was the most shocking statistic to me). The time frame in which this became a famine was extremely rapid

4) This feels like a conflict that can be resolved but hasn't been because the US has no will to interfere in any way

5) The disproportionality between Israel's power and that of Palestinians is really shocking 

6) It's a long conflict with a lot on the line (as is the case for most other conflicts of course) but this is a classic case of colonialism in the 21st century and a fight for land with Israel constantly gaining more and more land of what is supposed to be Palestine based on its 1967  borders. 

7) The west's double standards have never been this glaringly obvious. A lot is weighing on this battle. It's truly eroding at the idea of western "fairness" and "rule of law". It's basically a PR nightmare for the west in the global south. 

8) It's happening in the Mediterranean basin which is often viewed as the cradle of Western civilization. It's a conflict that is approximate to the West. Geography matters in how much the media cares (sadly). It doesnt feel like such a far away foreign land for the west...it's in the Middle East which is Europe's backyard. 

9) We cannot undermine the religious significance of this region. It's literally one of the holiest places in all 3 of the world's major Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam). All three have major sites in this land. It's called the Holy Land by all three religions for a reason. 

These are some of the reasons why this war is having a magnifying glass. I'm missing a bunch obviously but this is off the top of my head. Furthermore, I do think other conflicts get a lot of attention if not more. The Ukraine vs Russia war is everywhere. The potential of a China vs Taiwan war is also given LOTS of coverage. The conflicts that are not getting enough media attention at all are definetly the ones occurring in sub saharan africa and that's a shame sadly. I bet not many know about what is happening in Sudan or Congo sadly 

[ALGAYDO 35,563]

4 hours ago, Aren said:

Anti-semitism. A big segment (not everyone, of course) of pro-Palestinian supporters are just plain old anti-Semites. That includes Muslim extremists, both the far-right and the far-left, neo-Nazis etc. None of those groups actually care about Palestinians, they just use the war as an excuse to hate on Jews.

I hope you know that most people aren’t stupid enough to fall for the lies you desperately want to spread 

[LaLa 19,930]

5 hours ago, Citrom said:

Can i ask kindly (from Central Europe) why are people so upset about this particular war? There is war in Ukraine, in the Middle East, people and children dying everywhere and it seems like people doesn’t care about them like this one.

For me, as a Canadian, and I think most Americans too especially, we are so upset because our governments are subsidizing this genocide. Our governments are turning a blind eye to BLANTANT war crimes being committed, like "well it's complicated." 

My country gives money to Ukraine, I'm fine with that. My country gives money (my tax money) to Israel so they can kill civilians by the thousands and I'm very much not okay with that. And the thing is elected officials know the majority of the population feels this way, polls are done all the time, and they just ignore that too and complain about the protests instead. This is why this war in particular feels so divisive: it's absolutely brutal, we can watch it in real time, and the people meant to represent us ignore the will of the people and instead make us complicit. 

[OMF 3,691]

Stop it completely ffs! Enough! No one respects the US right now, no one! They have shown that they assist their own “friends”. Israel is nothing but an unofficial US state. 

[Dennis 8,391]

11 hours ago, dit said:

she's a hypocrite. the 6 weeks "ceasefire" was already cleared like two days ago hence why she is calling for it now lol.

Only cleared by Israel, yet to be approved by Hamas. I think it's a smart tactic to put pressure on Hamas to accept the ceasefire. Because right now the ball is basically in their court. If they reject the ceasefire, it'd be hard to blame Israel/U.S.

If a ceasefire is not accepted by both sides before Ramadan, it'll be a disaster.

[Dennis 8,391]

2 hours ago, dit said:

Lots of reasons: 

1) This is the first genocide that is being live broadcast in real time. Sorry but you cannot see the scores of people dying without getting so triggered

2) The ratio of civilian and child deaths is kind of unprecedented in the 21st century conflicts so far. 

3) This is the quickest starvation of a people in recorded history (this was the most shocking statistic to me). The time frame in which this became a famine was extremely rapid

4) This feels like a conflict that can be resolved but hasn't been because the US has no will to interfere in any way

5) The disproportionality between Israel's power and that of Palestinians is really shocking 

6) It's a long conflict with a lot on the line (as is the case for most other conflicts of course) but this is a classic case of colonialism in the 21st century and a fight for land with Israel constantly gaining more and more land of what is supposed to be Palestine based on its 1967  borders. 

7) The west's double standards have never been this glaringly obvious. A lot is weighing on this battle. It's truly eroding at the idea of western "fairness" and "rule of law". It's basically a PR nightmare for the west in the global south. 

8) It's happening in the Mediterranean basin which is often viewed as the cradle of Western civilization. It's a conflict that is approximate to the West. Geography matters in how much the media cares (sadly). It doesnt feel like such a far away foreign land for the west...it's in the Middle East which is Europe's backyard. 

9) We cannot undermine the religious significance of this region. It's literally one of the holiest places in all 3 of the world's major Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam). All three have major sites in this land. It's called the Holy Land by all three religions for a reason. 

These are some of the reasons why this war is having a magnifying glass. I'm missing a bunch obviously but this is off the top of my head. Furthermore, I do think other conflicts get a lot of attention if not more. The Ukraine vs Russia war is everywhere. The potential of a China vs Taiwan war is also given LOTS of coverage. The conflicts that are not getting enough media attention at all are definetly the ones occurring in sub saharan africa and that's a shame sadly. I bet not many know about what is happening in Sudan or Congo sadly 

1) And you think Ukraine isn't? When the ICC literally issued an arrest warrant for Putin for a crime considered a genocide under the Geneva convention (forceful transfer of children from one group to another). And we're not even talking about killing of civilians, because I don't wanna use genocide as a buzz word, unless ICJ/ICC issues a decision to that effect.

2) I'm surprised people don't know this. It kinda proves the point of the person you're responding to. In the proxy war in Yemen between Iran and Saudi Arabia, 250k people died. 250k. In Syria, I think around 400k?

3) Again, another 130k died as a result of famine in Yemen, with 8 million people being at risk of starvation.

4) This conflict is unlikely to resolve unless both sides agree to recognize each other's right to exist, and that has to be a point of national consensus for both sides. The U.S cannot magically change the reality on the ground.


There is no doubt that there is subjectivity when it comes to which tragedies people choose to care about. I haven't even covered many other tragedies including Congo, Sudan, with even more horrific numbers. 

I do not like creating competition between different tragedies. Every life is valuable, but if you're gonna double down on the fact this particular war deserves more attention, then at least let's get the facts and numbers straight.

[Leaf 2,429]

Israel must defend its borders.

[Bronco 28,247]

8 hours ago, Dennis said:

4) This conflict is unlikely to resolve unless both sides agree to recognize each other's right to exist, and that has to be a point of national consensus for both sides. The U.S cannot magically change the reality on the ground.

The only thing I'd disagree on is the last sentence. Due to the political and military situation in the Middle East, Israel's existence is primarily because of its status as a proxy nation in the region for the USA. Were the US to withhold it's backing (which it won't) then Israel's security would degrade very quickly. Wouldn't really help achieve peace though as it would likely embolden rival military forces like Hezbollah. 

There's only one way peace is achieved imo atm without 1 side eradicating the other (which is becoming a very very likely scenario) and that's for an Int. Community policed 2 state solution akin to how the Int. Community managed post-WW2 Germany/Axis powers. But there is zero appetite for that in the countries that would be needed to make it work. 
Instead if any "permanent"/"lasting" deal is agreed in this conflict we'll just end up with another sticking plaster like the one that is barely working in Bosnia & Serbia...

[Didymus 34,380]

9 hours ago, Dennis said:

I do not like creating competition between different tragedies. Every life is valuable, but if you're gonna double down on the fact this particular war deserves more attention, then at least let's get the facts and numbers straight.

Most of your facts and numbers are irrelevant, though, as they don't take into account the (short) length of the assault on Gaza so far. For so many civilians to die and starve in such a short amount of time is in fact incredibly rare.

Also, the continuation and acceleration of this war is directly funded with American tax dollars. The US plays an absurdly large role in protecting Israel, a supposedly democratic country, from being tried for war crimes. Yes, there are other atrocities happening, obviously, but (1) this war on Palestinians has been going on for more than 70 years, (2) Israel is considered part of Western democratic culture and a political ally. Israel committing genocide and getting away with it is shockingly egregious in this context.

[Phoenix Fields 2,714]