French pension reform censure rejected

[Guillaume Hamon 6,983]

1 hour ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

Centrist/Liberals/Democrats are the biggest enablers of fascism lmao 

And french media is not helping, misleading the public to think this is a right wing attack, when really, this bs is above politics and 2/3rds of French people don’t support this

Scary times for democracy…

2/3rds of french folks indeed with 80+ % of them being against it being forced with the 49.3 article the way Macron just did and 94% of active people ( aka the ones who are asked to make an effort ) opposing this reform...

[AVeryGagaHolyDick 31,894]

I’m not for it, neither against it. I’m fvcked anyway

[StarstruckIllusion 53,563]

27 minutes ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

2/3rds of french folks indeed with 80+ % of them being against it being forced with the 49.3 article the way Macron just did and 94% of active people ( aka the ones who are asked to make an effort ) opposing this reform...

Well… vive la france 

[Guillaume Hamon 6,983]

1 hour ago, The Z said:

I’m not for it, neither against it. I’m fvcked anyway

If you're f*cked already you can be against it cause this reform ain't making things easier... 

50 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

Well… vive la france 

We try to save our asses but don't always succeed.  Let's wait and see!

[dit 46,738]

what was the previous retirement age in France? 

honestly retirement should be even younger. I know we as a species live longer now but still...ppl need more time to enjoy their lives. We give our lives to work my gosh...at least let people enjoy their final few years in peace

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

Update : March 20th 

While Paris become stinkier everyday, the protests are growing and become more and more spontaneous. The support from the people is getting higher, workers are getting more revolted, syndicats calls for a new big strike day for next Thursday. Macron said that he won't give up and stand up against the country. 

So 2 motions of censures are going to be vote, they need a majority of 287 of parliamentarians to block the reform. The first motion of censure comes from the far right group, and has no chance to get vote outside their members. The second one, that has chances to pass, is the one deposed by a small group called LIOT (Freedoms, independents, overseas and territories), it's a cross-party motion and could counts :

88 deputies from the Far-right (RN)

149 deputies from the left/ecologists far-left LFI (NUPES) 

20 members of the LIOT 

and 5 unregistered

So basically it comes down to the republicans party ("liberal-conservative") with Eric Ciotti as leader of the group, that is pretty much backing up Macron  

[Cavadour 2,704]

1 hour ago, dit said:

ppl need more time to enjoy their lives. We give our lives to work my gosh...

I'm retired since 2 years now. But I enjoyed my life quite a lot. I never worked very long in an unsatifying situation. I'm known for having given the finger to many people I was unhappy to work with. Basically I never gave my life to work. But to my passions and interests instead. That's one of the main reasons I don't really feel any change with retirement. I just do the same stuff I was happy with all my life, only now, my small pension allows me to work half less for the same income... Perfect !

Enjoy your lives as much as possible. Don't give it to work, geez !

From Switzerland, I look at my french neighbors now and I tend to prefer this side of the border for sure

[faysalaaa 5,336]

On 3/16/2023 at 12:14 PM, BBhomemaker said:

I mean there are reasons why the whole country is against it, we are not just mad for the sake of it. This is not a democracy anymore, at this point the government is just telling us that ours opinion on our lives in our own country doesn't matter. French people said no, that's it. 
And to say that we used to ironically call Macron "the monarch" 

But almost all Democratic countries have laws and actions that 90% of the population oppose

[faysalaaa 5,336]

4 hours ago, dit said:

what was the previous retirement age in France? 

honestly retirement should be even younger. I know we as a species live longer now but still...ppl need more time to enjoy their lives. We give our lives to work my gosh...at least let people enjoy their final few years in peace

I agree, lower the age of retirement, and days of work per week.

[Guillaume Hamon 6,983]

4 hours ago, faysalaaa1 said:

But almost all Democratic countries have laws and actions that 90% of the population oppose

Then these many Democratic countries should be even more democratic no?

I always ask myself why these leaders are so scared of using referendums on key issues that really anime people.

5 hours ago, Cavadour said:

From Switzerland, I look at my french neighbors now and I tend to prefer this side of the border for sure

Because the retirement system is rather fair in Switzerland? I didn't know you guys avoided the permanent retirement age pushing. Good for you! 👏

[faysalaaa 5,336]

2 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

Then these many Democratic countries should be even more democratic no?

I always ask myself why these leaders are so scared of using referendums on key issues that really anime people.

I agree, which is why as of today, no Democratic country actually exists.

[Dennis 8,391]

9 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

Because the retirement system is rather fair in Switzerland? I didn't know you guys avoided the permanent retirement age pushing. Good for you! 👏

In Switzerland the retirement age is 64 and (65 for men). The increase did happen through a referendum though since Switzerland is a direct democracy.

[Dennis 8,391]

On 3/18/2023 at 3:21 PM, Morphine Prince said:

Macron just guaranteed a right-wing fascist will sweep the next elections.

 

Again, hard to blame Macron, here. In case you didn't know, in France you work for 35 hours only, unlike the rest of the world (and as such smaller tax pool). And people currently retire at the age of 62, one of the lowest in the world.

The scheme is fully financed by a payroll tax. The french population is ageing, which means more people are entitled to the pension and fewer people are working. How do you fix this deficit? You either increase work hours (up from 35 hours), increase payroll taxes which will disproportionately hurt younger people now, decrease the value of the pensions, or push the retirement age a few years.

Another solution would be to have the government pour money from other sources into this retirement fund, which would add to the budgetary deficit.

It's much easier to complain and criticize than provide a solution in this case. But if I had to choose, I'd choose 40-hr workweek. But it seems to be just as deeply unpopular in France? So there's nothing Macron can do other than keep the untenable status quo.

The days of effortless wealth are gone. And I think people should accept that reality. Historically, European powers were able to keep many social benefits for their citizens on the back of african colonies. But now if social benefits are to be kept, people have go to work to fund these programs. There's no magic wand. This is money paid as taxes from some, given as pensions to others.

[Economy 52,842]

50 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Again, hard to blame Macron, here. In case you didn't know, in France you work for 35 hours only, unlike the rest of the world (and as such smaller tax pool). And people currently retire at the age of 62, one of the lowest in the world.

The scheme is fully financed by a payroll tax. The french population is ageing, which means more people are entitled to the pension and fewer people are working. How do you fix this deficit? You either increase work hours (up from 35 hours), increase payroll taxes which will disproportionately hurt younger people now, decrease the value of the pensions, or push the retirement age a few years.

Another solution would be to have the government pour money from other sources into this retirement fund, which would add to the budgetary deficit.

It's much easier to complain and criticize than provide a solution in this case. But if I had to choose, I'd choose 40-hr workweek. But it seems to be just as deeply unpopular in France? So there's nothing Macron can do other than keep the untenable status quo.

The days of effortless wealth are gone. And I think people should accept that reality. Historically, European powers were able to keep many social benefits for their citizens on the back of african colonies. But now if social benefits are to be kept, people have go to work to fund these programs. There's no magic wand. This is money paid as taxes from some, given as pensions to others.

That was my point earlier as well

 

Im not saying France has to raise retirement age. Like I said she like u said, there's always other options

 

But other options have their own pains and unpleasant stuff to it as well. Ppl have to decide what they value most

 

There's no getting around the fact that when the percentage of the population working shrinks, the economic pie and financial wealth generated will shrink. That's gonna affect the consumption power per citizen available no matter what, u can't get around that fact. The only thing u can do is decide how u will rearrange the resources available

 

The most popular option seems to be to raise taxes on the rich to fill the hole. That may work for the financial funding part of the social system... It will not however offset the economic losses of reduced production of goods and services. Ppl will still end up paying financially for this thru inflation if that's the route taken as u try to maintain income benefits while the supply of goods and services shrinks via fewer people working 

[BBhomemaker 5,611]

31 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Again, hard to blame Macron, here. In case you didn't know, in France you work for 35 hours only, unlike the rest of the world (and as such smaller tax pool). And people currently retire at the age of 62, one of the lowest in the world.

The scheme is fully financed by a payroll tax. The french population is ageing, which means more people are entitled to the pension and fewer people are working. How do you fix this deficit? You either increase work hours (up from 35 hours), increase payroll taxes which will disproportionately hurt younger people now, decrease the value of the pensions, or push the retirement age a few years.

 

The unemployment rate in young people is high, maybe its time to do something ? 

"As for France, the unemployment rate has increased by 1.2 points in one year among those under 25, reaching 17.4% in January 2023. The country is also above the European average and that of the euro zone (14.4%)" 

https://www.touteleurope.eu/economie-et-social/le-taux-de-chomage-des-jeunes-en-europe/amp/

Also maybe unblocking more long term contracts would help as well.