Activists throw soup at Van Gogh's Sunflowers

[Economy 52,834]

4 hours ago, NATAH said:

i'm starting to think some of these "protests" are just plants who purposely do things that disrupt or anger the majority so their anger stays misdirected

nobody should be mad at this, they should be mad at the rich who keep bleeding the planet dry for profit... THOSE are the people who should be arrested

It's not just the rich. Society as a whole consumes more than it needs to and ppl buy stuff WILLINGLY (more so in the developed world)

 

It takes 2 to tangle

 

But of course the rich do have a much bigger disproportionate impact. I'm just saying our collective choices still matter because there's 7 billion ppl who aren't ultra rich that still make up the majority of consumption (the top 1 billion in particular)

[Economy 52,834]

46 minutes ago, Pablo said:

I don't see how that's gonna solve anything. It gets them press unfortunately. 

It won't solve anything and might even make some ppl take the cause less seriously nor do I think this is the way

 

But the heart is in the right place at least. If everyone thought like them maybe we'd have real progress by now on the environment 

[Not The Real Gaga 7,582]

1 minute ago, Economy said:

It's not just the rich. Society as a whole consumes more than it needs to and ppl buy stuff WILLINGLY

 

It takes 2 to tangle

 

Thank you for pointing that out. Most people won't acknowledge that, though.

[nATAH 56,844]

4 minutes ago, Economy said:

It's not just the rich. Society as a whole consumes more than it needs to and ppl buy stuff WILLINGLY

 

It takes 2 to tangle

right but sometimes the alternatives are too expensive, as bills go up and wages stay stagnant

the pressure needs to be on the rich, they're the ones with the money and the power

[AndiGaga 7,232]

Cant take them seriously, emberassing people

[Economy 52,834]

Just now, Not The Real Gaga said:

 

Thank you for pointing that out. Most people won't acknowledge that, though.

The rich are of course disproportionately MORE to blame as they have a much greater impact than the average person

 

What I don't like tho is the blame shift attitude where by putting ALL of the blame on ppl who are richer or more powerful than you, it kinda of gives u a free pass not to have to do anything

 

That's the part I don't like. Billions of ppl combined, and our consumer habits and our choices make a lot of impact also. Not to mention our consumer demands also influence industries since they seek profit

 

We're not politicians or rich ppl where we single handedly can have a massive impact on an individual level. But doing nothing (which is how everyone reasons) I think is lame also

[RAMROD 116,991]

They expect symphaty and support from doing these? Pffft good luck with that. Already put me off. And surely I won't be the only one. 
 

The people who would attracted to this are people who have that same kind of behavior and emotional intelligence 

[Economy 52,834]

11 minutes ago, NATAH said:

right but sometimes the alternatives are too expensive, as bills go up and wages stay stagnant

the pressure needs to be on the rich, they're the ones with the money and the power

They do have MORE power but I'm simply pointing out our choices matter too collectively.

 

What ur saying about bills and wages is part of the problem too. The general population isn't willing to endure a decline in economic standard of living even tho a proper and intense shift to a more sustainable future would require a lot less consumption and more sitcking to the basics in general

 

Even if u fixed the income disparity problem so the rich didn't have such an unfair amount. It still wouldn't cover the economic costs of a true ecological shift. So if u complain about standard of living now, what about then?

 

We don't just consume food and shelter anymore. We like our electronic gagets, more clothes than we need, food choices (requiring transportation), consume lots of electricity to maintain comfortable temperatures as weather changes, hot shower and I can go on and on

 

The past century despite how ppl view it has given us a lot more economic power to consume a lot more than we ever did (despite the fact that the rich gained even more). It just doesn't feel like our incomes grew because things we get accustomed to eventually feel like necessities and therefore are no longer luxuries but rather just "bills". But u still pay for it with incomes and a lifestyle that a more technologically productive society allows for

 

But unfortunately it's not really sustainable. And cutting consumption from the rich alone or getting them to pay for a few green tech updates is just a bandaid really

 

But the truth is too hard for ppl to face so they pretend electric cars and windmills will save our planet even tho that merely helps (and not even really fully solve) 1 of many looming ecological disasters (global warming)

[Pennywise 36,080]

4 minutes ago, Economy said:

The rich are of course disproportionately MORE to blame as they have a much greater impact than the average person

 

What I don't like tho is the blame shift attitude where by putting ALL of the blame on ppl who are richer or more powerful than you, it kinda of gives u a free pass not to have to do anything

 

That's the part I don't like. Billions of ppl combined, and our consumer habits and our choices make a lot of impact also. Not to mention our consumer demands also influence industries since they seek profit

 

We're not politicians or rich ppl where we single handedly can have a massive impact on an individual level. But doing nothing (which is how everyone reasons) I think is lame also

Nothing we individually do matters, though, unless there are mass (and I mean MASS) movements, but humans are too dumb to do that. We can, however, get educated, and then put pressure on those politicians and rich people to actually change things. 

One of the more important things, for example, is to change how we produce energy. Nuclear is THE safest way we have yet, both for the environment, and for the people, for example. Yet, both because of the fearmongering from gas/oil lobbies, and because of people's sheer stupidity, we keep relying on coal plants. 

No amount of electric cars or nice solar panels or whatever will change the world unless we can change the ways we produce those, too. The rare earth mineral mining technologies are not safe for the environment at all. 


So, I think, at an individual scale, we must learn to make do with less, and on a larger scale, the masses need to be educated enough to put pressure on the politicians and the rich. However, with conservatives around, and with capitalism around, that will never happen, because protecting the environment is almost always with a cost in revenues. And capitalists will always prioritize money. And conservatives will always want to protect that.

So, I don't really buy the whole "the blame is with ALL of us" thing, because, in comparison, it really isn't. 
 

[AURAOFSHEISSE 6,517]

What did Van Gogh do to deserve this

[TheSine 6,897]

2 minutes ago, RAMROD said:

They expect symphaty and support from doing these? Pffft good luck with that. Already put me off. And surely I won't be the only one. 
 

The people who would attracted to this are people who have that same kind of behavior and emotional intelligence 

I agree. It's unfortunate that the the world is full of ignorant individuals who wait until it's too late, but I believe acts like this amplify that and take away from the message entirely. 

Sure, it's for publicity, but there has to be something more than throwing canned soup on a one-of-a-kind historical painting. It reminds me of those vegan protesters who poured bottles of milk on the floor to spread a "message". When in reality they're just wasting product. Not to compare them to vegan protesters, I understand their intention. It's that the acts themselves are counter-active. 

[Economy 52,834]

2 minutes ago, Pennywise said:

Nothing we individually do matters, though, unless there are mass (and I mean MASS) movements, but humans are too dumb to do that. We can, however, get educated, and then put pressure on those politicians and rich people to actually change things. 

One of the more important things, for example, is to change how we produce energy. Nuclear is THE safest way we have yet, both for the environment, and for the people, for example. Yet, both because of the fearmongering from gas/oil lobbies, and because of people's sheer stupidity, we keep relying on coal plants. 

No amount of electric cars or nice solar panels or whatever will change the world unless we can change the ways we produce those, too. The rare earth mineral mining technologies are not safe for the environment at all. 


So, I think, at an individual scale, we must learn to make do with less, and on a larger scale, the masses need to be educated enough to put pressure on the politicians and the rich. However, with conservatives around, and with capitalism around, that will never happen, because protecting the environment is almost always with a cost in revenues. And capitalists will always prioritize money. And conservatives will always want to protect that.

So, I don't really buy the whole "the blame is with ALL of us" thing, because, in comparison, it really isn't. 
 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the part. Although I do think politicians and the rich need to be pressured cuz they have the greatest impact, I do not believe that gives us a pass to do nothing. Our collective choices still have an impact as do our demands as consumers

 

Also I agree with u about Nuclear. It's risks are overblown and it can help a lot with cleaner electricity. Half of my Provinces power comes from Nuclear and I personally support it

 

However it bugs me how much ppl think clean electricity and electric cars will solve our problems. I don't think ppl realize personal vehicles are a lot less of global pollution than is generally perceive. Not to mention electric cars have their own environmental impacts so there's a partial offset there

 

Ultimately at this time, the technology to make our amount of consumption sustainable doesn't exist, and until it does (if it ever does) the simple truth remains that we consume too much and can't really solve the issue without addressing that

 

But no one really wants that fixed cuz no one wants their standard of living to drop. I admit I myself would have a hard time accepting a lower standard of living even tho I know it's necessary. But at least I acknowledge it. Perhaps in time I can prepare to also take it if action ever gets taken to adress it

[Economy 52,834]

2 minutes ago, TheSine said:

I agree. It's unfortunate that the the world is full of ignorant individuals who wait until it's too late, but I believe acts like this amplify that and take away from the message entirely. 

Sure, it's for publicity, but there has to be something more than throwing canned soup on a one-of-a-kind historical painting. It reminds me of those vegan protesters who poured bottles of milk on the floor to spread a "message". When in reality they're just wasting product. Not to compare them to vegan protesters, I understand their intention. It's that the acts themselves are counter-active. 

Agreed

 

This doesn't upset me as much as if it was random vandalism because there's a solid good intention behind it

 

But definitely still not the way tho

[Pennywise 36,080]

Just now, Economy said:

But no one really wants that fixed cuz no one wants their standard of living to drop. I admit I myself would have a hard time accepting a lower standard of living even tho I know it's necessary. But at least I acknowledge it. Perhaps in time I can prepare to also take it if action ever gets taken to adress it

Honestly? Same. I think this will have to be something that we'll have to learn to live with, you're right on that front. Humans simply consume too much, compared to the decades before. 

The good news is we've become somewhat better at lowering the CO2 emissions I guess. But we need to do much more before we can say we're safe. 

 

[berlinforme 5,385]

What's there left to save if not cultural pieces such as paintings and art? The people? Ew. 

Jokes aside, I'm all here for different kinds of activism as protests like Fridays For Future for example clearly aren't taken seriously enough. But please, glue yourself to corporate headquarters or parliament buildings and address the people who are responsible directly. Don't p*ss off the general public with such nonsense.