Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

[JINNOCIDE 3,763]

Overall I did enjoy it much more than No Way Home... just because I feel like if you took the spiders away the script becomes very weak.

I really enjoyed how the movie was put together and Sam's direction definately showed up. Loved the horror aspects and the last 2 fight scenes.

Wanda's motivation and Olsen's acting was also very convicing

Spoiler

Strange vs Strange with the flying notes and the last fight.

Things I didn't like:

Spoiler

When they get together in the cafeteria they start to talk about the Book of Vishanti but don't explain a lot... it's very "why? because" type of answer and then they stop the conversation to joke about something.

It just feels like a cheap way to introduce something important to the plot without giving a good explanation. 

 

Also, I'm really not feeling this "overpowered moment" of a character whenever they feel like it.

They present the Illuminati as THE GROUP that keeps the maintenance of the multiverse and then they die so fast? While most of it not even showing their power, focusing only on Captain Marvel to show Wanda a hard time but even her dies in a very ??? way.

If you have to overpower a character of underpower others so said character can beat the sh!t out of the heroes "just because" every movie then it gets tired pretty quickly.

 

[mamo 17,763]

ok so i just got out the cinema and i have A LOT of thoughts but i'm too tired rn so i'll say real quick: 

WANDA'S JOURNEY TO BECOMING THE SCARLET WITCH IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO THE MCU - I SAID WHAT I SAID. 

The amount of pain/trauma she carries is unimaginable and isn't something we see often in marvel movies. It completely grounds her as a character and although her choices/actions are questionable, it's great seeing someone who isn't portrayed as a one-dimensional archetype hero. What makes her beautiful is that she's such a deeply-complex-powerful-flawed-messy-bad ass character which is so interesting to watch as viewer. I truly hope we see more of her because there's so much else to be explored. Elizabeth Olsen, you are MOTHER! 

[Ouranos 667]

I really enjoyed it but I did think it could have been a series on Disney+ but still really good! So excited for the future with some of the cameos. Wanda is one of my favs definitely feels like her movie as well 

[Knife 6,608]

Spoiler

How do you bring Wanda back in a "hero" capacity after this? The business in Westview, her killing multiple unnamed and named characters in this movie, like...damn.

Captain Marvel dying by being squished by a pillar is so wack. I get that the fight had to be over and done with quick, but homegirl can literally fly through ships and destroy planets.

 

[RAMROD 104,202]

 

 

Spoiler

Remember those rumor that Gaga was offered to star as Clea?

Now that I saw Clea's looks, I definitely believe that rumor now. I mean, look at it!!!

 

Gaga would have been so cool

But Charlize is so damn great too, like, MCU did no less! So impressed and pleasantly surprised when I saw the scenes!! 
 

I literally did this pointing thing too!

 

[julz 5,548]

Spoiler

So there was such rumor?!?! Actually i was actually envisioning Gaga to be Cleo. Gaga whhhhy... It feels destined for her, like being linked to CLEOpatra, and Benedict Cumberbatch (James Corden Carpool episode). I still hope Gaga gets involved in the MCU.

 

Scarlet Witch is such a scary villain, like the scenes where there was blood on her face and in plain shirt just killing heroes and anyone/thing on her path. I remembered The Ring in that scene with the gong. I also remembered Game of Thrones when Dr. Strange used that corpse. 

Such a rollercoaster ride of a movie!!!

 

[JaysAMess 27,843]

10/10.

[Reality 71,878]

I JUST GOT BACK HOME FROM THE CINEMA!! It's been more than week since the movie came out, so I don't know if anyone will care about my opinions but here's my review 

// SPOILERS BELOW //

Spoiler

Overall, I really enjoyed the film. If I had to give it a numeric ranking, I'd rank it around an 8-8.5/10. Coming into the film, I heard about how much people raved about the directing, and honestly, I could not agree more with them. Coming out of the film, the #1 thing I loved about it was the direction. This felt like a Sam Raimi film through and through. The camera work was amazing, the editing was great (I loved a lot of the fade in/fade out transitions), the color grading looked awesome, etc., etc. I legitimately think that, in terms of direction, this is quite possibly one of the best, if not, the best directed MCU film. The VFX was also spectacular. There were a couple of iffy moments in the beginning, but overall, the VFX and CGI were spot on. 

The performances were also a highlight of the film. I thought Benedict Cumberbatch not only did a great job portraying the main Strange, but I also liked seeing his Defender and Sinister Strange, even though we didn't get a whole lot of time with either of them. Xochitl Gomez did a good job, though I think she ultimately wasn't given the most interesting stuff to do. That said, that doesn't fall on her acting as much as it falls on the script—which I'll definitely get to later on. Benedict Wong, Rachel McAdams, and Chiwetel Ejiofor all did good jobs with their characters too. I'm glad Rachel McAdams got more interesting stuff to do here than in the first movie. Playing a different version of herself from the multiverse was a nice change of pace for the character. That said, I felt like her role in relation to Strange was very similar to what it was in the first film. 

But the star of the MVP was without a doubt Elizabeth Olsen. She devoured every scene she was in. Her acting was top-notch and she delivered every line wonderfully. She had a lot of fun one-liners and great villain moments. I also think the directing also aided a lot in her performance. For example, the scene where Sara destroys the Darkhold and Wanda is trying to stay in Earth-838 Wanda's body, and it constantly keeps cutting to Wanda in our universe and 838 Wanda as she's reaching out for her children. Not only did Elizabeth give a really emotional performance in that scene, but the editing made it that much more impactful. She was also truly menacing and terrifying, which I feel isn't necessarily something we see in MCU villains. Aside from Thanos, I don't think I've ever felt truly intimidated by an MCU villain.

But now...the script...Honestly, watching a lot of reviews for the movie, one of the major critiques people had (both between those that liked the film and those who didn't) was that the script was a little messy, and unfortunately, I have to agree. I think the script's biggest flaws aren't necessarily in the decisions that were made, but in the way those decisions were executed. 

For example, Wanda's villain arc. I know that there are people out there who have a fundamental issue with Wanda being the villain of the movie, but in my opinion, I think it makes sense given the context of the movie. I don't have an issue with her being the villain, but I do kind of have an issue in with the way it was handled. I thought the movie's pacing was moving too fast and I was honestly shocked with how fast it was moving, especially in the beginning. For example, take the scene when Strange first meets Wanda in her orchard. I felt like there was a huge missed opportunity to flesh out some exposition in that scene. Like, Strange has never met Wanda before in the MCU. How does he know she's a witch? How does he know she practices magic? Strange knew about Westview. Okay, let's expand upon that more. Why didn't he intervene? Could he have even stopped it if he wanted to? It just felt like there was no build-up to Wanda becoming the villain of the movie. It's just sort of revealed and then she immediately starts attacking Kamar-Taj. Again, I don't disagree with the decision to make Wanda the villain (hell, I loved it), but it felt like the movie was moving too fast and it didn't give the exposition time to breathe and settle in.

As for the Illuminati thing, I thought it was fine. The shock value of the Illuminati wasn't really there because they'd already teased it in the trailers, but it was nice to see them in action. I wished we got a bit more with them because they felt so expendable. The cameos were cool (it was nice to see the Fantastic Four, X-Men, and Inhumans referenced and acknowledged in the MCU), but other than that, they weren't too significant.

Finally, a little thing I loved about the MoM was seeing a diverse use of magic. While I liked the first Doctor Strange movie a lot, I felt like it was lacking in the magic department. It really just consisted of the mirror dimension, the energy constructs, and the time stone. In the battle with Gargantos alone, Strange and Wong used so many cool and interesting spells, it was awesome. Wanda's use of chaos magic and telepathy was great too. The Battle of Kamar-Taj was such an amazing action sequence; quite possibly one of my favorites in the MCU.

So overall, the directing and performances 1000% made this movie. I hope Sam Raimi comes back to direct another film for the MCU again. When Wanda inevitably gets her own MCU movie (because I don't believe for a second that she's dead), my dream team is getting Sam Raimi to direct and Jac Schaeffer (who wrote on WandaVision) to write. That's a powerful duo right there!

 

[Ziggy 10,734]

Tbh that was a very pathetic underwriting of her character. How can you follow up the complexity of Wandavision (and not just the show but even isolated episodes) with such an unwashed broad brush of a character arc that dilutes her “hysterical woman that wants to be a stepford mom.”

Like GoT, a very intriguing set-up that jumped the gun too soon and ultimately fumbled the bag on the conclusion of one of marvel’s best character arcs in years. 
 

And they wasted the cameos tbh to make her seem more powerful but idk it felt cheap to me.

GREAT acting, great horror elements, but the fundamentals of character were not there at all. Very very popcorn with some seasoning

[Reality 71,878]

2 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

Tbh that was a very pathetic underwriting of her character. How can you follow up the complexity of Wandavision (and not just the show but even isolated episodes) with such an unwashed broad brush of a character arc that dilutes her “hysterical woman that wants to be a stepford mom.”

Like GoT, a very intriguing set-up that jumped the gun too soon and ultimately fumbled the bag on the conclusion of one of marvel’s best character arcs in years. 

I don't have an issue with her being the villain, but I think it wasn't executed in the best way. I actually disagree that the movie made her out to be a "hysterical woman." I think the movie really dances the line between making Wanda a compelling villain and making her a stereotypical "crazy woman can't control her emotions/powers" character, but I think it ultimately falls into the former.

I've watched multiple interviews with Elizabeth Olsen and she says that ultimately Wanda's decisions aren't coming from a place of emotion, but of intention. I think that's the key difference. The Darkhold did corrupt Wanda, but if she was just 100% corrupted with no agency and no independent thought of her own, then I think it perpetuates the "hysterical woman" trope, but that's not the case. Wanda is making a decision to deal with people who get in her way, which is something she decides on her own. She even tells Strange that she's "been reasonable" up until the attack on Kamar-Taj.

I liken her more to Wenwu in Shang-Chi. She's ultimately the villain of the story, but the hero of her own. She doesn't believe what she's doing is wrong because she just wants to be with her family. 

Also, it's also not like WandaVision didn't set this up. At the end of the show, Wanda was left alone and isolated with the Darkhold. Of course she was going to be corrupted. 

The biggest issue for me in terms of Wanda's character arc isn't the decision to make her the villain, but the way in which that was presented to us. Imo, there was no build-up or tension to her reveal. It was just sorta like "BAM and Wanda's the villain ok let's go." There was little exposition to get us there and the movie should've done more in that regard. While I liked the scene of her and Strange in the orchard, that whole scene was a big missed opportunity to flesh out Wanda's motivations more. It was also the first time Wanda and Strange had ever met in the MCU, but the way the two interacted seemed like they'd known of each other for a long time. It was really weird tbh.

[pachinko 9,920]

Loved it! 

[Ziggy 10,734]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

I don't have an issue with her being the villain, but I think it wasn't executed in the best way. I actually disagree that the movie made her out to be a "hysterical woman." I think the movie really dances the line between making Wanda a compelling villain and making her a stereotypical "crazy woman can't control her emotions/powers" character, but I think it ultimately falls into the former.

I've watched multiple interviews with Elizabeth Olsen and she says that ultimately Wanda's decisions aren't coming from a place of emotion, but of intention. I think that's the key difference. The Darkhold did corrupt Wanda, but if she was just 100% corrupted with no agency and no independent thought of her own, then I think it perpetuates the "hysterical woman" trope, but that's not the case. Wanda is making a decision to deal with people who get in her way, which is something she decides on her own. She even tells Strange that she's "been reasonable" up until the attack on Kamar-Taj.

I liken her more to Wenwu in Shang-Chi. She's ultimately the villain of the story, but the hero of her own. She doesn't believe what she's doing is wrong because she just wants to be with her family. 

Also, it's also not like WandaVision didn't set this up. At the end of the show, Wanda was left alone and isolated with the Darkhold. Of course she was going to be corrupted. 

The biggest issue for me in terms of Wanda's character arc isn't the decision to make her the villain, but the way in which that was presented to us. Imo, there was no build-up or tension to her reveal. It was just sorta like "BAM and Wanda's the villain ok let's go." There was little exposition to get us there and the movie should've done more in that regard. While I liked the scene of her and Strange in the orchard, that whole scene was a big missed opportunity to flesh out Wanda's motivations more. It was also the first time Wanda and Strange had ever met in the MCU, but the way the two interacted seemed like they'd known of each other for a long time. It was really weird tbh.

I would agree! That’s why I think it comes off as more hysterical woman and less compelling villain. To me, there’s a key difference between the actor’s performance and what is written. EO acted her a$$ off but that script was, frankly, kinda thin compared to what Wanda has had going for her character in the past. It had the plot points there, but lacked the nuance to give the emotional beats real heft from a character standpoint imo and that goes for the entire film not just Wanda’s arc. It had story just not a whole lot of nuance which something like these arcs require *especially* Wanda’s.

without that build up like you mentioned, it felt a little too…quick

[Reality 71,878]

2 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I would agree! That’s why I think it comes off as more hysterical woman and less compelling villain. To me, there’s a key difference between the actor’s performance and what is written. EO acted her a$$ off but that script was, frankly, kinda thin compared to what Wanda has had going for her character in the past. It had the plot points there, but lacked the nuance to give the emotional beats real heft from a character standpoint imo and that goes for the entire film not just Wanda’s arc. It had story just not a whole lot of nuance which something like these arcs require *especially* Wanda’s.

without that build up like you mentioned, it felt a little too…quick

I think that's entirely fair. My biggest gripe with the movie is that it the pacing is insanely quick, especially in the first 20-ish minutes. I think something as simple as a flashback scene or more dialogue with her and Strange in the orchard could've gone a long way in making the transition from WandaVision to MoM smoother. Like, the Battle of Kamar-Taj happens within the first 20 minutes of the film. That's insane to me. Looking at the trailers and TV spots, I would've guessed that was in the second or third act. And this isn't me shitting on that battle btw. I think it's phenomenal and I loved just how powerful Wanda was during that entire sequence, but the movie went from 0 to 100 real quick.

It's tricky though because I definitely see both sides. On one end, I could understand why some people view this character arc as regressive, but on the other end, I also see why, if anything, people view this character arc as progressive. I think the motivations Wanda has in this movie are insanely empathetic and, let's be real, I think if this were a male villain with the exact same intentions and characterizations, I don't think people would be making as much of a fuss about it as they are now. I think, in a way, to see a female villain unapologetically, and intentionally, causing chaos with incredibly empathetic motivations comparable to that of a lot of male villains can be seen as a progressive character arc. She isn't "crazy" for the sake of being "crazy," but because her methods of getting what she wants are unethical and immoral, even if she does have smypathetic motivations.

But like you said, it's a great idea in theory, but does the script live up to that? That's definitely debatable. The ideas certainly are there, but the script should've done a little bit more to make that idea clear. Otherwise you get a ton of people saying she's more of a "crazy woman" as opposed to a really compelling and interesting villain.

[Ziggy 10,734]

12 hours ago, Reality said:

I think that's entirely fair. My biggest gripe with the movie is that it the pacing is insanely quick, especially in the first 20-ish minutes. I think something as simple as a flashback scene or more dialogue with her and Strange in the orchard could've gone a long way in making the transition from WandaVision to MoM smoother. Like, the Battle of Kamar-Taj happens within the first 20 minutes of the film. That's insane to me. Looking at the trailers and TV spots, I would've guessed that was in the second or third act. And this isn't me shitting on that battle btw. I think it's phenomenal and I loved just how powerful Wanda was during that entire sequence, but the movie went from 0 to 100 real quick.

It's tricky though because I definitely see both sides. On one end, I could understand why some people view this character arc as regressive, but on the other end, I also see why, if anything, people view this character arc as progressive. I think the motivations Wanda has in this movie are insanely empathetic and, let's be real, I think if this were a male villain with the exact same intentions and characterizations, I don't think people would be making as much of a fuss about it as they are now. I think, in a way, to see a female villain unapologetically, and intentionally, causing chaos with incredibly empathetic motivations comparable to that of a lot of male villains can be seen as a progressive character arc. She isn't "crazy" for the sake of being "crazy," but because her methods of getting what she wants are unethical and immoral, even if she does have smypathetic motivations.

But like you said, it's a great idea in theory, but does the script live up to that? That's definitely debatable. The ideas certainly are there, but the script should've done a little bit more to make that idea clear. Otherwise you get a ton of people saying she's more of a "crazy woman" as opposed to a really compelling and interesting villain.

Totes! I think she feels a bit like Venom ala Spider-Man 3 where they’re more or less a villain because we’ve been told so lol if we didn’t have the context of wandavision or other movies, her villainy would feel a bit shallow. I think it’s an interesting point about what details are necessary in individual movies when you have this sprawling cinematic multi-verse. I personally take a more traditional line that the movie itself should explain what you need to know but I can see where other viewers wouldn’t deem that info as necessary given her other appearances.

[Reality 71,878]

58 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

Totes! I think she feels a bit like Venom ala Spider-Man 3 where they’re more or less a villain because we’ve been told so lol if we didn’t have the context of wandavision or other movies, her villainy would feel a bit shallow. I think it’s an interesting point about what details are necessary in individual movies when you have this sprawling cinematic multi-verse. I personally take a more traditional line that the movie itself should explain what you need to know but I can see where other viewers wouldn’t deem that info as necessary given her other appearances.

Yeah, it certainly feels like they leaned into relying on WandaVision too much, which ironically, both helped and hindered them. I think by relying on WandaVision so much, you get the sense that "Hey, this Disney+ show that was released last year actually does matter in the grand scheme of things. It's going to have actual consequences for the rest of the MCU," which I know has been a common complaint amongst some people. Many thought that the MCU D+ shows so far have had little consequence to the overall MCU—which is a completely different topic, but nevertheless I disagree with that critique.

But because the jump from WandaVision to MoM seems so sudden, people are like, "Ummm..This doesn't really make sense though. The Wanda in this movie seems completely different than the one in WandaVision." It's funky because even though I really, really enjoyed this movie, I think most of its critiques are valid and I actually tend to agree with some of them. It's an interesting viewing experience, that's for sure