The US Needs to Build More Subways

[AJRocketMan 2,684]

19 hours ago, Fresco said:

If buses could have high speed, and no congested traffic, they would be more effective than transit rail.  Bus stops also should have status displays to show when the next bus is expected and for which route, and next stop.

But I frankly don't like to ride on packed subways or even buses, except when the routes are really specific and useful, like in Vegas or around stadiums. Someone is usually sick or obnoxious.

The near future will probably be in driverless electric AI robot taxis on normal roads. 

Yuck! I hate buses! I sometimes have to ride them when I don’t have a train anywhere nearby and I have to be somewhere, but buses have never been efficient. I would much prefer the streetcar make a comeback.

[Shipper 13,114]

1 hour ago, AJRocketMan said:

Living alone is a privilege, not an entitlement. If you can’t afford to alone, then you can not afford it. Never live beyond your means just so you can have a kitchen and bathroom all to yourself.

I don't make rash decisions and everything is budgeted so I can afford it don't worry.

 

[NCgaga 4,345]

You can’t compare USA to Europe Or Japan. USA Is a much larger country with a much less dense population. The country has urban centers, but the whole country is sparsely populated for the most part. USA is car centric, with bigger yards, bigger houses, etc. 

[Fresco 1,688]

10 hours ago, Varys said:

these busses alreadt exist but they are not the great solution you think they are i fear. He also made a video about this

 

on the topic of self driving cars you might wanna watch this. its defitnely not happening in the near future

 

 

The kind of bus routes depicted in the video is not what I was thinking of. We have express buses in the area that are allowed to drive on really wide shoulders and use high occupancy vehicle hov lanes. They get through congested areas twice as fast or better than a single rider car. So, I like hov lanes or even toll lanes that buses would be allowed to use.  

Jobs located in the suburbs are entirely impractical to get to by bus if you live in a different suburb. I once figured out a bus route at 2 hours and 15 minutes morning only  (evening not even possible) for a drive to work that took 10 minutes.  But even if you use mass transit for work, then you still need a car for groceries, shopping, and all other travel, so the choice is: do you drive your weekend car to work or pay for mass transit in addition to your weekend car (insurance, maintenance, purchase payments) 

I don't like trollies because they use the same roads as cars, and contribute to traffic congestion and are not as comfortable as a bus, not climate contolled and very limited with regard to routes. I haven't seen them used in hov lanes, tho I suppose they could be.

Companies from GM to Tesla are working on self-driving. I would not underestimate what can be done.

If people like to use bikes, razor scooters, or segways and have a place to park them, that would be great too.

I also like a well made elevated monorail train that is smooth, quiet and comfortable. Most subways that I have used were pretty good, probably because they were very well thought out because of how very expensive they were to build. Is it even worth it now to add new subway routes under cities that have never had one and were not designed with that in mind with all the existing utilities underground?

 

[AJRocketMan 2,684]

2 hours ago, NCgaga said:

You can’t compare USA to Europe Or Japan. USA Is a much larger country with a much less dense population. The country has urban centers, but the whole country is sparsely populated for the most part. USA is car centric, with bigger yards, bigger houses, etc. 

Yeah, but before that USA cities were like European ones. It’s unfortunate to see what we did to our cities.

[Varys 30,916]

5 hours ago, Fresco said:

 

I don't like trollies because they use the same roads as cars, and contribute to traffic congestion and are not as comfortable as a bus, not climate contolled and very limited with regard to routes. I haven't seen them used in hov lanes, tho I suppose they could be.

 

Oh I see your view trollies as an American is not the same as mine as a European. You think of them as old fashioned because you never seen otherwise. But trams are actually more comfortable and have way more capacity as busses and have their own HOV in Europe. Lemme give you some examples 

 

5 hours ago, Fresco said:

 Is it even worth it now to add new subway routes under cities that have never had one and were not designed with that in mind with all the existing utilities underground?

 

As I already said subways/metros don’t have to be underground. They can be elevated in trenches or at grade or a mix of all of these above. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, NCgaga said:

You can’t compare USA to Europe Or Japan. USA Is a much larger country with a much less dense population. The country has urban centers, but the whole country is sparsely populated for the most part. USA is car centric, with bigger yards, bigger houses, etc. 

 

 

[HuffsAhoy 7,433]

I'm more interested in building a better healthcare system than I am a better mass transit system.

[NCgaga 4,345]

22 hours ago, AJRocketMan said:

Yeah, but before that USA cities were like European ones. It’s unfortunate to see what we did to our cities.

They were never like European cities. The only US Cities that have even been like European cities are New York, Dc, San Francisco, etc. most major US CIties sprawl out for miles and miles and have a much larger footprint than Euro cities. People have to travel further on daily commutes in US cities, because the population is dispersed less densely. 

[AJRocketMan 2,684]

2 hours ago, NCgaga said:

They were never like European cities. The only US Cities that have even been like European cities are New York, Dc, San Francisco, etc. most major US CIties sprawl out for miles and miles and have a much larger footprint than Euro cities. People have to travel further on daily commutes in US cities, because the population is dispersed less densely. 

This is so not true. I’m talking about before highways were built. In the early 1950’s and earlier, American cities were like European ones. Check out Columbus, Ohio in the 1940’s:

Spoiler

Cincinnati, 1940s

Spoiler

Union Station on Christmas Day, 1945. Seeing so many white people and black people mixed together in the same crowd in the ‘40s is so freaking weird!!!

Either 1930’s or 1940’s 👆🏻 The cars say “1930’s”, but the women’s skirt length’s say “1940’s”. I’m gonna go with 1940’s since people have always driven older car models to save money.

This one is from the early 1950’s 👆🏻

Goodness, how heartbreaking 😭💔

Denver, 1940’s:

Spoiler

This one was 1938 👆🏻

The Cincinnati transformation was the most painful of the three, but all of them took a clear step backwards. By the late 1950’s, they started to resemble the versions of themselves that still exist today. Cincinnati was so vibrant in the 1940’s. It’s still stunning (in my opinion it has the second most gorgeous architecture in the country, right after Chicago), but it’s not anywhere near as active and urban as it once was.

Many American cities were like the ones I posted above before WW2. Suburbanization really transformed Americans’ way of life and it devastated our cities, which are really humanity’s greatest invention. Only in the past 15 years have our cities really started rethinking the decisions they made in the ‘50s - ‘70s.

I can understand why you think most American cities were never like Europe, because you never knew a time when it was contrary; but the evidence proves your point wrong. Suburbs and highways were uncommon and only rich people used the few ones that existed.

[AJRocketMan 2,684]

On 1/4/2022 at 9:06 PM, Fresco said:

I don't like trollies because they use the same roads as cars, and contribute to traffic congestion and are not as comfortable as a bus, not climate contolled and very limited with regard to routes. I haven't seen them used in hov lanes, tho I suppose they could be.

This is totally inaccurate. If trolleys are not given the right-of-way on the streets then yes that is true, but any sensible government that builds a streetcar system or allows one on their roads would give them the right-of-way, meaning all other vehicles have to yield to the streetcars and can’t get in the way of the tracks. The old-style American streetcar system that survived the longest was Chicago’s, because their trolley’s were granted the right-of-way so they didn’t have to fight traffic or get stuck in it. Also streetcars are smoother and come to cleaner stops than buses do.

21 hours ago, Varys said:

 

 

 

As I already said subways/metros don’t have to be underground. They can be elevated in trenches or at grade or a mix of all of these above. 

A train system is called a subway because it‘s underground. You can’t have a subway that ISN’T underground.  Otherwise it’s called a metro system or an El.

19 hours ago, HuffsAhoy said:

I'm more interested in building a better healthcare system than I am a better mass transit system.

One is a federal issue and the other is a local one, so if you live in an urban area both can be a concern. 

However, I definitely think the federal government could take up responsibility of some rail transportation. I can’t even believe we don’t have a long-distance bullet train in the US yet and it’s 2022. 

[Varys 30,916]

2 hours ago, AJRocketMan said:

 

A train system is called a subway because it‘s underground. You can’t have a subway that ISN’T underground.  Otherwise it’s called a metro system or an El.

 

Subway’s or metros or el are all names used for the same thing (rapid transit). It all comes down on how a city decide to name its rapid transit system. Some call it metro some call it subway etc. Fun fact the New York subway or London Underground actually more above ground then underground. 

When he means subway in the video he doesn’t actually mean underground if you would have watched it. He probably used subway because that’s the name of the largest rapid transit system in the us (New York subway) which is acutally more above ground then underground. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_transit

[HuffsAhoy 7,433]

3 hours ago, AJRocketMan said:

However, I definitely think the federal government could take up responsibility of some rail transportation. I can’t even believe we don’t have a long-distance bullet train in the US yet and it’s 2022. 

The closest rail to me is two hours away in the capital city and it's Amtrak. Even then, it only runs 6 times a day  

[Fresco 1,688]

13 hours ago, AJRocketMan said:

This is totally inaccurate. If trolleys are not given the right-of-way on the streets then yes that is true, but any sensible government that builds a streetcar system or allows one on their roads would give them the right-of-way, meaning all other vehicles have to yield to the streetcars and can’t get in the way of the tracks. The old-style American streetcar system that survived the longest was Chicago’s, because their trolley’s were granted the right-of-way so they didn’t have to fight traffic or get stuck in it. Also streetcars are smoother and come to cleaner stops than buses do.

The same government could write laws to give buses the right of way, allow buses to change traffic lights in their favor, make it illegal to block buses. The metro city I live near got rid of trolleys 70 years ago. I see one sitting in a park as an old museum piece. That old trolly had wood seats facing sideways, no climate control, and was replaced by a fleet of buses with joy.

The light rail trains that are less than 20 years old have screeching brakes, like finger nails on a chalkboard at 90 decibels. The breaks squeeled new and they still squeel after years of use. The starts and stops depend on the driver, a train can be just as abrupt as a bus, depends on the driver and ability to stay on a schedule. 

If you are saying that a tram(lets not use the word trolley) is better because it can use the same roads as cars but gets the right of way, then just give the same right of way to buses and save the expense of installing the tram and rails and power grid.

I like the airport terminal trams, short little trips, quiet rides, very useful. Private rail line that car traffic does not interfere with in any way.

I'll also add that clearing rail tracks requires special equipment. This area may have snow or ice on rail tracks 6 months of every year. You can't just run a normal blade truck over a rail track and call it good. That massive thing could derail with hundreds of people onboard.