The US Needs to Build More Subways

[Chromatislaps 34,854]

1 hour ago, dit said:

I do not care for their sandwiches tbh. They are always wet and gushy like a WAP. But if it can make more people healthy as it is is allegedly a better choice than other junk food restaurants then so be it...the obesity crisis in the US is unhinged (not that there is an issue with being obese or big but if it hampers your health of course then it is a problem). 

[RAMROD 118,081]

LMAO no thanks. 
 

Anyone who ever rode trains to commute in LA/San Fran/New York knows this is a bad idea. It will deteriorate in no time. Used needles slipped on seats, homeless people defecating and urinating on empty car, vandalism, daylight robbery, unruly adults singing and screaming loudly, targeted racism and sexual assaults, and so on and so forth. Nobody ride trains here except for tourists, newly transmigrated/immigrated citizens, and poor folks. 

[Varys 30,916]

4 minutes ago, RAMROD said:

LMAO no thanks. 
 

Anyone who ever rode trains to commute in LA/San Fran/New York knows this is a bad idea. It will deteriorate in no time. Used needles slipped on seats, homeless people defecating and urinating on empty car, vandalism, daylight robbery, unruly adults singing and screaming loudly, targeted racism and sexual assaults, and so on and so forth. Nobody ride trains here except for tourists, newly transmigrated/immigrated citizens, and poor folks. 

Lmao that’s why you have to keep investing in transit. This seems like a USA culture problem only 

[LoveDrugPNW 430]

34 minutes ago, Healed My Heart said:

We're building a huge network of (mostly) above-ground light rails in Seattle. It used to only go from Tacoma to Seattle, but now they are expanding into suburbs and other major employment hubs.

It is EXPENSIVE and the whole project is something like 30 years long, but it's worth the investment imo. To pay for it, car tabs here went from like $60 a year to over $200 a year. It was put to a vote several years ago and approved.

$200?! Mine’s almost $600 in north King County 😭

[Papergangstuh 2,664]

Jimmy Johns >>>>>>

[Shipper 13,114]

23 minutes ago, TheEdgeof96 said:

$200?! Mine’s almost $600 in north King County 😭

My gas is $600 a month. 

If that is per year. That aint so bad. 

[AJRocketMan 2,684]

1 hour ago, Neroneau said:

Trams are for medium transit numbers and are slower. A big tram will obstruct traffic. That’s why metros are the way to go. 

I’m assuming you’re European considering your use of the word “tram” instead of “trolley” or “streetcar”.

I live in Chicago. We have an elevated heavy rail train system, called the “El” for short (pronounced like the letter L). Some of it is underground. Almost all of those subways are downtown, with the rest of the city’s train coverage being elevated. Unlike the NYC subway, the Chicago El is a hub-and-spoke system that is supposed to get people from their homes into downtown (called “The Loop”). The majority of elevated train coverage is in the northern half of Chicago. Huge portions of the southern half have no train coverage at all:

If you don’t have a car in an area where there is no train coverage, you have to rely on the bus. Buses are inherently inefficient, because they have to work with the flow of traffic. Chicago’s streetcars were given the right-of-way, so automobiles had to yield to streetcars. The streetcars did not follow stop signs and stoplights, and one never had to wait more than 3-5 minutes for another streetcar if he or she missed their intended one. The streetcars rules the streets and automobiles were of secondary importance.

This is good; We need less cars in our cities, not the same or more. We already have the worst traffic in the US. Chicago wasn’t built for automobiles. The neighborhoods were actually built around streetcar lines (these were privately owned and run btw). Here’s a map of Chicago Surface Lines (the trolley system) from 1937, which was the peak year for track mileage:

It used to be the biggest and most extensive streetcar system in the world.

The majority of American cities also do not have the street layout or the infrastructure to support and maintain mass transit.

[AJRocketMan 2,684]

1 hour ago, Varys said:

Trams/light rail are great options for dense mid sized cities. In cities as big and sprawling like houston or Dallas they are useless or would need to be feeder lines to a subway system.  Also poorer countries like India and China are in a subway boom. If they can build them or Canada/ Australia can (countries that have the same sprawling cities as the USA there is no excuse why the richest country in the world would not build them because too expensive 

Dallas and Houston do not have the infrastructure/street layout to support a mass transit system — there are too many cul-de-sacs and winding roads. Only the oldest parts of those cities have a grid where that can be useful. Additionally, in order for mass transit to be successful and financially solvent, they need to operate in densely populated areas, and Dallas and Houston are not densely populated. They both have light rail systems, however.

Dallas:

Houston:

Also, labor is quite expensive in the US. Especially if it’s unionized and the public sector is paying for it. Public sector unions are extremely corrupt and are unwilling to perform tasks that will benefit the common good, and this is coming from someone who is pro-labor and pro-collective bargaining. Then you have to take raw materials into account, land-use regulations, and permits which also make costs go up. China and India are building lots of subways because labor is cheap and regulations are almost non-existent.

[AJRocketMan 2,684]

1 hour ago, Healed My Heart said:

We're building a huge network of (mostly) above-ground light rails in Seattle. It used to only go from Tacoma to Seattle, but now they are expanding into suburbs and other major employment hubs.

It is EXPENSIVE and the whole project is something like 30 years long, but it's worth the investment imo. To pay for it, car tabs here went from like $60 a year to over $200 a year. It was put to a vote several years ago and approved.

In other words, you guys are emulating the light rail system in Portland? Portland has a light rail system. I don’t know how extensive it is though and I’ve never been to the city. Have you visited?

And 30 years for a light rail system?! Dude, that’s a signal that the government is weak and the labor contractors are corrupt. Developed countries like The Netherlands and Japan can build bridges extremely fast. That’s impractically long and arduous.

31 minutes ago, Shipper said:

My gas is $600 a month. 

Where’s the “gross” reaction when you need one? 🤢 My rent is $600/month!!!

[AJRocketMan 2,684]

1 hour ago, Varys said:

Trams/light rail are great options for dense mid sized cities. In cities as big and sprawling like houston or Dallas they are useless or would need to be feeder lines to a subway system.  Also poorer countries like India and China are in a subway boom. If they can build them or Canada/ Australia can (countries that have the same sprawling cities as the USA there is no excuse why the richest country in the world would not build them because too expensive 

I also forgot to mention something: I don’t know if you knew this or not, but before World War 2 pretty much all American cities had streetcar systems, even sprawling car-centric cities like Atlanta, Raleigh, Jacksonville, San Antonio, El Paso, Denver, Columbus, Cincinnati, Nashville, and Salt Lake City. American cities were like European ones. So you’re definitely right about trolley’s being great for medium-sized cities. But big cities need more than just heavy rail trains (subways & els) because people will always need to be able to navigate their local area and trains aren’t practical for that, and buses are not acceptable or effective.

Also elevated train systems are less expensive than underground ones so I prefer els over subways. Plus I like the look more. I live in Chicago. Are you European?

[Varys 30,916]

20 minutes ago, AJRocketMan said:

Dallas and Houston do not have the infrastructure/street layout to support a mass transit system — there are too many cul-de-sacs and winding roads. Only the oldest parts of those cities have a grid where that can be useful. Additionally, in order for mass transit to be successful and financially solvent, they need to operate in densely populated areas, and Dallas and Houston are not densely populated. They both have light rail systems, however.

Dallas:

Houston:

Also, labor is quite expensive in the US. Especially if it’s unionized and the public sector is paying for it. Public sector unions are extremely corrupt and are unwilling to perform tasks that will benefit the common good, and this is coming from someone who is pro-labor and pro-collective bargaining. Then you have to take raw materials into account, land-use regulations, and permits which also make costs go up. China and India are building lots of subways because labor is cheap and regulations are almost non-existent.

But what about Australia and Canada?

Syndney and Montreal are both opening new rapid transit (well Sydney already did and is currently expanding it) would something like they did not be an option? Fast driverless autonomous metros build mostly on viaducts with a large station spacing fast speeds and transit orient development build around it?

Sydney 

Montréal 

[Varys 30,916]

7 minutes ago, AJRocketMan said:

I also forgot to mention something: I don’t know if you knew this or not, but before World War 2 pretty much all American cities had streetcar systems, even sprawling car-centric cities like Atlanta, Raleigh, Jacksonville, San Antonio, El Paso, Denver, Columbus, Cincinnati, Nashville, and Salt Lake City. American cities were like European ones. So you’re definitely right about trolley’s being great for medium-sized cities. But big cities need more than just heavy rail trains (subways & els) because people will always need to be able to navigate their local area and trains aren’t practical for that, and buses are not acceptable or effective.

Also elevated train systems are less expensive than underground ones so I prefer els over subways. Plus I like the look more. I live in Chicago. Are you European?

Yeah in big cities tram lines are great feeders for heavy rail transit

and yes I’m from Belgium from a city (Ghent) with 270k people and a bigger light rail network then Houston 

[gothicdream 39,660]

1 hour ago, TheEdgeof96 said:

$200?! Mine’s almost $600 in north King County 😭

Really?!! I'm not in King so maybe it's different between counties? Or maybe it's different depending on type of car or something. $600 for registration is so much, wow.

[AJRocketMan 2,684]

44 minutes ago, Varys said:

But what about Australia and Canada?

Syndney and Montreal are both opening new rapid transit (well Sydney already did and is currently expanding it) would something like they did not be an option? Fast driverless autonomous metros build mostly on viaducts with a large station spacing fast speeds and transit orient development build around it?

Sydney 

Montréal 

Yeah I have to look more into the proposals as I don’t want to form an opinion on something I don’t fully understand. From what I can tell from those pictures though, these look like light rails, as they have overhead wires that provide electricity to the cars allowing them to move. Heavy rails, like the NYC, Stockholm, Seoul, and Tokyo subway systems don’t need those.

I’m assuming they’re able to build more tracks more quickly and efficiently because 1) The governments are not as corrupt, 2) They get more funding from the federal government, whereas unfortunately the American cities are on their own, 3) Either the unions aren’t as corrupt or there’s no unions at all so there’s less tax money being wasted on overly generous pension plans or whatever, and 4) If there are unions, then the local governments are not going to tolerate any fast ones the unions might pull on them before construction gets started. In America there is SO MUCH BUREAUCRACY it’s infuriating.

42 minutes ago, Varys said:

Yeah in big cities tram lines are great feeders for heavy rail transit

and yes I’m from Belgium from a city (Ghent) with 270k people and a bigger light rail network then Houston 

Interesting! I’m looking up Ghent right now and it’s not even that densely populated. It’s only 4,300 people per square mile whereas Chicago is almost thrice that. I admire your city’s public transit system. 👏🏼 Maybe Houston and Dallas can put in an effective mass transportation system after all.

[Varys 30,916]

5 minutes ago, AJRocketMan said:

Yeah I have to look more into the proposals as I don’t want to form an opinion on something I don’t fully understand. From what I can tell from those pictures though, these look like light rails, as they have overhead wires that provide electricity to the cars allowing them to move. Heavy rails, like the NYC, Stockholm, Seoul, and Tokyo subway systems don’t need those.

 

No no they are metros. Most modern metros use overhead wires for lots of reasons. I believe some lines in Seoul and Tokyo also have them while Stockholm and NYC and the first lines of Tokyo use third rail because they are older 

and yeah the population desire of Ghent is misleading because the port is part of the municipality but no one lives there. The populated area is quite dense. The city center is still medieval in street layout and architecture (which is gorgeous)