Germany announces lockdown for the unvaccinated

[spector 1,919]

perhaps it wouldn’t be bad if mx. rona mutated into a visually detectable disease: if you’re infected, irrespective of being symptomatic or asymptomatic, your head turns red or develops chickenpox-esque spots. i bet that would be a big fat deterrent. 

[Lukas10495 340]

i don't care because I got tested positive 2 days ago so 

[ceminay 1,122]

15 minutes ago, ARTPOP said:

Most countries do not allow kids access to public education without some important vaccines, this is not abnormal. Many extremist political parties (mainly right wing) are latching on it and politicizing it. They are feeding on that opinion of yours. 

 

I don't care about what right wing parties say, I am a leftist. The fact that right wing parties are using this for political gain just shows that they'd be ready to use this maliciously as precedent when they come into power, since they have no spine. That's why I care.

12 minutes ago, ARTPOP said:

How is a government making a decision based on SCIENCE and for the better of the globe is compared to a fascist regime ?? Fascist governments will make up reasons and twist facts  to do what they want to do. Science based restrictions are 100% objective 

True, which is why we need a healthy discussion about all of this. Acknowledging the risks, and making laws to limit such policies to make sure it can't be used by fascist regimes.

8 minutes ago, SwissMonster said:

Because Hitler did violate Human Rights. So you are putting them in the same group of people.

I do get what you mean and its wrong. You make it seem like this is easy for the government to make. This will be checked by SEVERAL Justice Instances. Just some days ago the Lockdown at the beginning this year was being judged by a jury on Human Rights.

A future government (until it is a dictatur, which would be a totaly different situation) can’t just put these restrictions up. There are so many scientists, official and neutral instances involved you have no Idea how difficult this is.

 

That's a pretty big accusation saying I meant Merkel and Hitler are similar, not cute. Many politicians have disregarded human rights, they still do, and that does not make them Hitler.

Trust me, I'm from Turkey. My country used to have rule of law, a functioning, non-partizan bureaucracy, an independent media and free thinking universities 20 years ago. Erdogan won election by election, dismantled everything that made Turkey democratic. He threw all of our judges, academics, military and journalists in jail, either by setting up fake conspiracies to make them seem as traitors, or by villainizing them to the public. Look at us now. Don't ever take it for granted.

[SwissMonster 30,688]

10 minutes ago, trutheverafter said:

Thank you for this. I got vaccinated but I think everyone is up to their own. No one should be forced to do so. 

Everyone is up on their own to risk another persons life? Yeah no 

[SwissMonster 30,688]

7 minutes ago, ceminay said:

I don't care about what right wing parties say, I am a leftist. The fact that right wing parties are using this for political gain just shows that they'd be ready to use this maliciously as precedent when they come into power, since they have no spine. That's why I care.

True, which is why we need a healthy discussion about all of this. Acknowledging the risks, and making laws to limit such policies to make sure it can't be used by fascist regimes.

 

That's a pretty big accusation saying I meant Merkel and Hitler are similar, not cute. Many politicians have disregarded human rights, they still do, and that does not make them Hitler.

Trust me, I'm from Turkey. My country used to have rule of law, a functioning, non-partizan bureaucracy, an independent media and free thinking universities 20 years ago. Erdogan won election by election, dismantled everything that made Turkey democratic. He threw all of our judges, academics, military and journalists in jail, either by setting up fake conspiracies to make them seem as traitors, or by villainizing them to the public. Look at us now. Don't ever take it for granted.

I didn’t say that you implied they are the same. I said you did put them in the same category. You are saying that Merkel is violating human rights. That is, sorry, insane.

You compare this to the situation in turkey? I don’t get it? Germany, Merkel and her Party didn’t violate anything and didn’t put any judge in jail. Actually the situation rn shows how well the german system works in an emergency case like rn. You are comparing two COMPLETELY different situations. Ofc if you have fachists running a country they will **** on those rules. But uhm, this isn’t the case rn.

You are drifting this conversation in an other direction. My question still stands, why do you think, protecting your own citizens freedom and safety, is against human rights? 
 

Cause when you say that a lockdown for unvaxxed people is against human rights, why isn’t putting the life of millions in danger by letting the unvaxxed (who could kill you) run around against human rights

[ceminay 1,122]

1 minute ago, SwissMonster said:

I didn’t say that you implied they are the same. I said you did put them in the same category. You are saying that Merkel is violating human rights. That is, sorry, insane.

You compare this to the situation in turkey? I don’t get it? Germany, Merkel and her Party didn’t violate anything and didn’t put any judge in jail. Actually the situation rn shows how well the german system works in an emergency case like rn. You are comparing two COMPLETELY different situations. Ofc if you have fachists running a country they will **** on those rules. But uhm, this isn’t the case rn.

You are drifting this conversation in an other direction. My question still stands, why do you think, protecting your own citizens freedom and safety, is against human rights? 

You don't seem to understand what I mean by "setting precedent for the future" and "future complications". Merkel, her party or the German system right now has nothing to do with this.

We don't have to agree, I'm sure we agree that everyone should get vaccinated so we can just move on with this misery.

[SwissMonster 30,688]

4 minutes ago, ceminay said:

You don't seem to understand what I mean by "setting precedent for the future" and "future complications". Merkel, her party or the German system right now has nothing to do with this.

We don't have to agree, I'm sure we agree that everyone should get vaccinated so we can just move on with this misery.

Okay okay, I do get your point. But no I wont move on, I wanna know why you said that THIS (a lockdown for the unvaxxed, rn, in this situation) is against human rights

[Juanlittlem 49,659]

26 minutes ago, trutheverafter said:

Thank you for this. I got vaccinated but I think everyone is up to their own. No one should be forced to do so. 

I support their decision 100%. Im not forcing you to get the vaccine, but you're putting people in danger so it's your choice not to get vaccinated but it's the choice to not let you use public transport, go to the cinemas, shopping 'cause you're putting everyone in danger.

[Fresco 1,688]

I'm kindof rooting for this policy. It seems reasonable enough, the omicron virus mutated into existence because covid19 was still being spread among the unvaccinated.( We all knew this would happen eventually. ) It's better than shutting down the entire economy. And people respond to financial incentives and disincentives better than other motivations. (?)

But people have their freedoms and people still fear vaccines. It isn't logical, but the internet is too good at spreading false information. It doesn't help that Fox news tells their viewers to discuss vaccination with their doctors, an expensive extra visit that is not needed usually.

 

[TheSlash 14,539]

7 hours ago, AJRocketMan said:

They wouldn’t be bitching up like they do if smallpox came back 

Literally. I mean, most of us (if no health issues present) get vaccinated multiple times before we even enter adulthood. And now these grown up babies act like this vaccine is poison and will kill you

[TheSlash 14,539]

4 hours ago, Fresco said:

It doesn't help that Fox news tells their viewers to discuss vaccination with their doctors, an expensive extra visit that is not needed usually.

Still better than to get the information from some shady website

[coolninjaguy 1,239]

13 hours ago, ceminay said:

I can’t support this. I wish everyone got vaccinated, but this is just against human rights. You could come up with a lot of arguments showing its benefits, but it’s still wrong and unconstitutional in many countries.

This could be the beginning of a slippery slope. Who can guarantee a government in the near future could show this as precedent, and decide to segregate and disregard human rights of a minority for the “greater good of public”?

I know people are sick of anti-vaxxers, but having no discussion about the future implications of this dangerous.

Society functions on a hypothetical social contract... in which everyone - in one way or another - holds moral obligations toward each other and the state as a result of this shared contract that forms society. It is not wrong or unconstitutional for societies to require the moral obligation of vaccination to participate in society. If someone chooses not to that is their decision and the burden falls on them not society. 

Also what we're not going to do is say that unvaccinated people are oppressed somehow... if you think this is a human rights violation you must be joking because thats a slap in the face of people actually being oppressed around the globe. 

[Supersonic 49,376]

11 minutes ago, coolninjaguy said:

Society functions on a hypothetical social contract... in which everyone - in one way or another - holds moral obligations toward each other and the state as a result of this shared contract that forms society. It is not wrong or unconstitutional for societies to require the moral obligation of vaccination to participate in society. If someone chooses not to that is their decision and the burden falls on them not society. 

Also what we're not going to do is say that unvaccinated people are oppressed somehow... if you think this is a human rights violation you must be joking because thats a slap in the face of people actually being oppressed around the globe. 

Honestly claiming that vaccinated people are oppressed is equivalent to calling drunk drivers an oppressed minority, because we take their "freedom to drive" away. 

[Gabi001 2,470]

10 hours ago, ceminay said:

You don't seem to understand what I mean by "setting precedent for the future" and "future complications". Merkel, her party or the German system right now has nothing to do with this.

We don't have to agree, I'm sure we agree that everyone should get vaccinated so we can just move on with this misery.

The precedent has alread been set many years ago and nothing happened. There are lot of countries where children are banned from public education if they don't take compulsory vaccines. There are countries that require you to be vaccinated to some exotic diseases to enter their territory. In my country if you want to work in food processing or in restaurant, you have to pass regular check-ups by doctor or you will be banned from such a work. And everybody was fine with this until antivaxers started the "fascism" narrative. 

[Supersonic 49,376]

15 minutes ago, Gabi001 said:

The precedent has alread been set many years ago and nothing happened. There are lot of countries where children are banned from public education if they don't take compulsory vaccines. There are countries that require you to be vaccinated to some exotic diseases to enter their territory. In my country if you want to work in food processing or in restaurant, you have to pass regular check-ups by doctor or you will be banned from such a work. And everybody was fine with this until antivaxers started the "fascism" narrative. 

It's almost like anti-vaxxers who bring up oppression and the holocaust are trying to banalize the actual oppression and unjust discrimination people went and still go through, in order to change public discourse about it. Almost as if they're a reactionary far right extremist movement.