Talented singers whose music is average?

[LandonM170 686]

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Taylor Swift - She's got better with time but claims of her being a great songwriter always confused me for years. Her writing up until very recently has been very juvenile and one note. She's finally maturing lately but she's in dire need of better production. She's one of the few artists who, apart from her singles, I can barely differentiate one song from the next per album, they're just so devoid of memorable beats.

you haven't listened to folklore, evermore, Speak Now, or RED (except Stay Stay Stay) yet.

Edit: And Self-Titled & Fearless (Taylor's Version). Also, some songs on Lover, 1989, and reputation really have amazing lyrics. Clean, Cornelia Street, Death by Thousand Cuts, This Love, Delicate, King of My Heart, Dancing With Our Hands Tied, Dress, Call It What You Want, and New Year's Day come to mind.

[AURAOFSHEISSE 6,516]

you just destroyed half of pop with that list

[holy scheisse 22,254]

1 hour ago, flyaway said:

Not necessarily. I speak from what we've experienced so far that goes beyond the albums. I love the work, but I know she has yet to reach her artistic peak with what she's able to do and has demonstrated in the past through her work.

On one side, she has several cover performances where she showcases many of her abilities as a vocalist that on most of her albums are missing. Then there are many ideas (like the whole ARTPOP experience) that seem unfinished and made too quickly, and there is some big potential that could be fully exploited in the future. Or albums like Joanne that have some of her best work, but suffer from lack of commitment to the sound.

Gaga's career has been very turbulent, and in a way has forced her to change direction in some unexpected ways. Either because of time, a record label's expectations, some questionable decisions, an emotional state, there are factors that have affected the work that is out there.

But then this is just my personal view on things, it's what I feel she's capable of.

What covers has she done that outmatch the vocals showcased on Joanne through chromatica?  enigma, I'll never love again, shallow, always remember us this way, Joanne.. endless songs showcase her vocals

Curious what else besides vocals that "goes beyond the album" indicates she is capable of more than she's delivered in her music? 

This whole thread is just an opinion at the end of the day cuz I love ARTPOP, but you think it's half baked. One of us had unmet higher expectations and one of us accepts and enjoys the art at face value.  

 

Just can't see how anybody especially on this site could describe Gaga as "talented, but average." Even TF(M) when she was making the most "generic" pop music, it was innovative at the time. In fact i would argue TFM showed us Gaga's artistic peak that you're still waiting for...

[Chromatica Island 8,517]

Mariah Carey, never cared for her music, but she is talented vocally

[holy scheisse 22,254]

Also in regards to op, of doja Cat was so much better being weird and niche . She blew up and became generic af

[lavender blonde 650]

Ariana, Demi and Miley

[socotra 3,310]

2 hours ago, flyaway said:

TW: This opinion may offend some of you, but I feel Gaga has yet to release an album up to her talents as an artist, a songwriter and a vocalist. An artist like Gaga truly deserves a masterpiece album, and I know she could make it. BTW was a close effort.

Don't get me wrong, she already has many great songs and amazing ideas. But her albums often feel half baked, unfinished or too constricted to appeal to the masses. And when it comes to Chromatica, it was mostly conceived by her producers.

 

I kinda agree, and honestly, I think a big part of the problem is that Gaga's fanbase is uniquely diverse.

For virtually all other major artists, there's a common thread that runs through their work. Kanye, Taylor, Beyonce, Rihanna, Katy, Ariana, etc. all have albums that, more or less, serve their core fanbase. If you liked College Dropout, chances are you'll probably like MBDTF and Ye. If you liked Speak Now, chances are you'll probably like 1989 and Folklore. If you liked My Everything, you'll probably like TUN. If you liked Loud, you'll probably like Anti.

I think that's fundamentally not the case for Gaga's music. If you became a fan because of The Fame/Monster, there's no guarantee you're gonna follow her with Joanne. If you're more inclined to her euro/synthpop roots, you probably weren't a big fan of Chromatica's 90s house influence. If you really liked the lower register voice she used from TF-BTW, the drama of her voice on ARTPOP maybe wasn't your favorite.

I feel like Gaga gets pulled in too many directions. I love Born This Way, and I do think it's her best album, but I think it gets bogged down by trying to do so many things. Her albums often suffer from having a concept that is so vague that it undermines the whole project (which is why I think Chromatica and TFM are her best reviewed solo project – the "planet Chromatica" idea is there, but doesn't interfere, while TFM's concept actually serves the album).

If she really tried to focus on a general theme in the way Taylor or Kanye does, I think she could really hit it out of the park. I just really want her to release an album. Just a regular album. A collection of songs that aren't being shoehorned into an arbitrary narrative (like "my ARTPOP could mean anything, reverse Warholian experience" "I am Joanne" "In Chromatica, no one thing is greater than another"). You never see that kinda of superfluous jargon attached to other artist's works, and I think it's to her detriment that she feels the need to do it for every album.

[Putang Ina Mo 2,141]

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Pink - She's got it in her to create an amazing album but so often, her albums just go above average for me and her last 3 have just been average at best. She's also pulled back on all the rebellious, shouty anthems she used to do which is where she shone and is focusing more on dull ballads these days. I know she's getting older but artists can still totally do a louder style at an advanced age, it's just about doing it right.

I loooove P!nk, but her recent album is so boring. I get it that she's now a mom and she should probably stop releasing songs about slashing your ex's tires, but she's like so boring, tame, and mom-like now.

[Enigma 7,182]

8 minutes ago, sexy said:

I kinda agree, and honestly, I think a big part of the problem is that Gaga's fanbase is uniquely diverse.

For virtually all other major artists, there's a common thread that runs through their work. Kanye, Taylor, Beyonce, Rihanna, Katy, Ariana, etc. all have albums that, more or less, serve their core fanbase. If you liked College Dropout, chances are you'll probably like MBDTF and Ye. If you liked Speak Now, chances are you'll probably like 1989 and Folklore. If you liked My Everything, you'll probably like TUN. If you liked Loud, you'll probably like Anti.

I think that's fundamentally not the case for Gaga's music. If you became a fan because of The Fame/Monster, there's no guarantee you're gonna follow her with Joanne. If you're more inclined to her euro/synthpop roots, you probably weren't a big fan of Chromatica's 90s house influence. If you really liked the lower register voice she used from TF-BTW, the drama of her voice on ARTPOP maybe wasn't your favorite.

I feel like Gaga gets pulled in too many directions. I love Born This Way, and I do think it's her best album, but I think it gets bogged down by trying to do so many things. Her albums often suffer from having a concept that is so vague that it undermines the whole project (which is why I think Chromatica and TFM are her best reviewed solo project – the "planet Chromatica" idea is there, but doesn't interfere, while TFM's concept actually serves the album).

If she really tried to focus on a general theme in the way Taylor or Kanye does, I think she could really hit it out of the park. I just really want her to release an album. Just a regular album. A collection of songs that aren't being shoehorned into an arbitrary narrative (like "my ARTPOP could mean anything, reverse Warholian experience" "I am Joanne" "In Chromatica, no one thing is greater than another"). You never see that kinda of superfluous jargon attached to other artist's works, and I think it's to her detriment that she feels the need to do it for every album.

I think this stuff is great when you’re a pop star, and I wish a lot more of them did the same. But that stuff worked when she was fully committed, like in the TFM days. As time goes on she loses the Gaga persona to a point where the narrative feels like a gimmick rather than a theatrical experience. An album like Joanne didn’t need that stuff. The ARTPOP narrative was amazing if only it had been exploited to the max. I think the BTW narrative was overall her best execution, cause it was authentic and present in every aspect of the era (her own message of acceptance, the tour theatrics, etc). The Chromatica one is almost greater than the album, but it falls flat because she herself doesn’t seem to buy into it. Not once has she tweeted something about the Chromatica lore that wasn’t an automated message by her team or something of the sort.

Basically I think she either needs to drop this stuff altogether (which ngl would make me sad cause it’s a big reason why I stan her) OR find a way to make it authentic and committed. 

[socotra 3,310]

5 minutes ago, Enigma said:

I think this stuff is great when you’re a pop star, and I wish a lot more of them did the same. But that stuff worked when she was fully committed, like in the TFM days. As time goes on she loses the Gaga persona to a point where the narrative feels like a gimmick rather than a theatrical experience. An album like Joanne didn’t need that stuff. The ARTPOP narrative was amazing if only it had been exploited to the max. I think the BTW narrative was overall her best execution, cause it was authentic and present in every aspect of the era (her own message of acceptance, the tour theatrics, etc). The Chromatica one is almost greater than the album, but it falls flat because she herself doesn’t seem to buy into it. Not once has she tweeted something about the Chromatica lore that wasn’t an automated message by her team or something of the sort.

Basically I think she either needs to drop this stuff altogether (which ngl would make me sad cause it’s a big reason why I stan her) OR find a way to make it authentic and committed. 

exactly, all the worldbuilding/themes she's done would've been absolutely killer if they

1) made sense (ARTPOP is my favorite album by her and I still can't wrap my head around what a "reverse Warholian experience" is supposed to be – I feel like TF-BTW were all better examples of "ARTPOP" than ARTPOP itself was; I can see hints of what she was going for with the Joanne concept, but for it have worked, I think she needed to make it abundantly clear, because I think it came off as roleplaying her dead aunt to a lot of people)

2) were actually carried out (this, I think, has largely been out of her hands – it's not her fault ARTPOP fell apart, and Chromatica was derailed by the pandemic)

[Suspiria 10,683]

Adele. Honestly the blandest, safest music of all time. She's clearly very good at what she does, but for me personally there is just not a single appealing quality to her music.

 

Lana Del Rey for the past few years has just become unlistenable to me honestly. I always liked her voice, and I think she's exceptionally good at creating a certain mood/image. But damn the music has been SO lifeless and meandering, with every new release I just can't understand how she gets any excitement or pleasure from creating yet another directionless piano drivel that is barely even a song. Lyrically I think she has gotten better over the years but in every other regard her music has just died totally.

[Reject False Icons 4,769]

Shakira: She her first 2 albums were amazing lirically even though evertyhing was about relationships and love, it turned very repetitive after the crossover and felt like she chased hits except for a couple hidden songs. And for a long time I feel like she hasn't evolved much in her career. 

Avril Lavigne also had 2 first great records and then she switched into pop and chasing hits which now feels like she has lost her identity. Now I don't know where she's gonna go

 

[StrawberryBlond 14,820]

4 hours ago, Blastertoyo said:

Um 

How can yall call Gaga queen of versatility and say these are all the same 

 

If course they don't all sound the same but the style remains the same, just that some of them sound more like the RnB sound of their particular decade. Her uptempo tunes and ballads all have the same distinctive style and she's not someone who likes going out her comfort zone.

4 hours ago, GNZAREVILO said:

She can legit rap, sing and write/produce her own stuff. Did you listen to Planet Her? Album of the Year.

I did, I found it mediocre, just a few good tracks here and there. Her best effort yet but like I said, she's improving in baby steps. I don't get how Kiss Me More was such a hit, I find it so boring and just like a more chilled version of Say So, a song made to be a hit on TikTok.

3 hours ago, LandonM170 said:

you haven't listened to folklore, evermore, Speak Now, or RED (except Stay Stay Stay) yet.

Edit: And Self-Titled & Fearless (Taylor's Version). Also, some songs on Lover, 1989, and reputation really have amazing lyrics. Clean, Cornelia Street, Death by Thousand Cuts, This Love, Delicate, King of My Heart, Dancing With Our Hands Tied, Dress, Call It What You Want, and New Year's Day come to mind.

I've listened to all those albums (apart from the new tracks from her Fearless re-release) which is why I was able to make the assessment I did. I don't know why you listed 4 albums as if that many would've passed me by. I thought it seemed very obvious I was referring to Folklore and Evermore when I was mentioning how much her writing has matured recently. For what it's worth, I think Reputation is her best album, but it's still just ok.

3 hours ago, AUARAOFSHEISSE said:

you just destroyed half of pop with that list

When you listen to as much music across all genres as I do, you get a lot of artists to choose from and evaluate and you gain a huge understanding of what's good and what's not. It seems like a lot, but not for someone like me. The benefit to listening to all this music is that you can always find someone you like whereas if you only listen to what's popular and promoted, you're stuck for choice if you don't like it. I sometimes think that a lot of us only think certain music is good because we haven't heard enough to compare it to.

[Oriane 20,935]

9 hours ago, flyaway said:

TW: This opinion may offend some of you, but I feel Gaga has yet to release an album up to her talents as an artist, a songwriter and a vocalist. An artist like Gaga truly deserves a masterpiece album, and I know she could make it. BTW was a close effort.

Don't get me wrong, she already has many great songs and amazing ideas. But her albums often feel half baked, unfinished or too constricted to appeal to the masses. And when it comes to Chromatica, it was mostly conceived by her producers.

 

This. At the end of the day she's a pop artist and the label expects her to sell a lot and make something commercial. She's always managed to be creative and experiment but within the limits and always using a pop coating around it, I wish she wasn't constricted by these expectations.

[ALGAYDO 32,428]

Ally Maine. She’s a very talented singer and songwriter, but her songs are so basic.