Stereogum: BTS Ruined Charts System + Butter Is Not The Most Popular Song

[RAMROD 107,765]

Just now, OMonster said:

That is Gaga?

No, that is Joanna actually 

[BlondeQueenOfGGD 25,454]

3 minutes ago, OMonster said:

That is Gaga?

It’s Joanne

[Arcadia 1,366]

23 minutes ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

 

Gaga mobilizing her fans to buy more than one album.

They won who cares fandoms age and shrink eventually.

But all these CDs sells all count as one purchase because it was part of the same checkout.

 

she was gifting them to her fans and signing them, not setting an example 

[OMonster 14,667]

This is a commentary more about fan culture than BTS. Taylor Swift is another artist who has had #1 songs that are easily not the most popular song of the week. See Cardigan and Willow. I love them (and their respective albums) but neither were popular outside of Taylor's fanbase. 

So... should the system be changed?

It really depends on what the chart should represent: does it represent 1) the songs with the most combined sales and streams, or 2) the streams/sales/airplay of individual, standalone tracks?

The former is open to manipulation but is an actual measure of investment, while the latter provides a more accurate picture but essentially nullifies the power of fans. That could really change pop culture. 

Personally, I think the remixes and instrumentals shouldn't count as a sale. I also think multiple buys from one person shouldn't count, either, although I know there are already restrictions on that. I think one purchase per person would surely make the charts more reflective of actual popularity... but I think that would be very bad news for our favourite pop stars.

 

[Rat Boy 43,186]

24 minutes ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

And was that same person impersonating her during the Joanne era?

 

Precisely. 

[LOVEDRUG 10,459]

8 minutes ago, OMonster said:

This is a commentary more about fan culture than BTS. Taylor Swift is another artist who has had #1 songs that are easily not the most popular song of the week. See Cardigan and Willow. I love them (and their respective albums) but neither were popular outside of Taylor's fanbase. 

So... should the system be changed?

I'm not sure. 

It really depends on what the chart should represent: does it represent 1) the songs with the most combined sales and streams, or 2) the streams/sales/airplay of individual, standalone tracks?

The former is open to manipulation but is an actual measure of investment, while the latter provides a more accurate picture but essentially nullifies the power of fans. That could really change pop culture. 

 

 

your point is valid but your example isn't. even though cardigan and willow both had hugely inflated debuts, i know for a fact that people listen to them outside of their fanbase. willow actually stayed at around #30 for several months, which shows that even if it didn't stay in the top 10, it had general public listeners. this is because taylor has radio support and the general public like her. bts doesn't have the same thing. comparing the chart runs of willow and life goes on, since they were both released around the same time...

willow: 1-38-23-22-29-28-29-25...

life goes on: 1-28-93-OUT

even the pop girls' hugely inflated debuts aren't as bad as what armys are doing. at least the gp eventually picks up taylor, gaga etc.'s songs after release. many of bts' releases don't gain traction amongst the general public at all. this isn't me blindly defending taylor, but you get the same story with many of gaga, ariana, taylor etc.'s songs, but not with bts. i'd say it's less of a fan issue and more of an army issue.

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

5 minutes ago, Mer Boy said:

Precisely. 

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

10 minutes ago, boop said:

But all these CDs sells all count as one purchase because it was part of the same checkout.

 

she was gifting them to her fans and signing them, not setting an example 

Oh... But I thought is wasn't her. 

[OMonster 14,667]

6 minutes ago, Melancholia said:

your point is valid but your example isn't. even though cardigan and willow both had hugely inflated debuts, i know for a fact that people listen to them outside of their fanbase. willow actually stayed at around #30 for several months, which shows that even if it didn't stay in the top 10, it had general public listeners. this is because taylor has radio support and the general public like her. bts doesn't have the same thing. comparing the chart runs of willow and life goes on, since they were both released around the same time...

willow: 1-38-23-22-29-28-29-25...

life goes on: 1-28-93-OUT

even the pop girls' hugely inflated debuts aren't as bad as what armys are doing. at least the gp eventually picks up taylor, gaga etc.'s songs after release. many of bts' releases don't gain traction amongst the general public at all.

Thanks for the stats. 

I still think it proves my point though that Willow was never the most popular song in the US. It was #1 solely because of fans. It's overall popularity, as you highlight, sat at around #25 on average, which sounds about right. It was known to the GP but it wasn't a 'number one' hit by any stretch without the fans. 

I'm not saying this to attack Taylor, by the way. I love her. I would even say the same for Gaga with SL and ROM (to a lesser extent). I guess my point is that pop artist 'peaks' nowadays are usually fan-driven and not reflective of overall popularity. Whereas a song like, say, 'Old Town Road' hitting #1 was organic and truly 'deserved' in terms of GP popularity. 

It's an interesting debate though - should the charts represent the fan's reception of a specific song, or the public's? I think both are valid, really. 

[LOVEDRUG 10,459]

1 minute ago, OMonster said:

Thanks for the stats. 

I still think it proves my point though that Willow wasn't deserving of the #1 spot. It was put there solely because of fans. It's overall popularity, as you highlight, sat at around #25 or something, which sounds about right. It was known to the GP but it wasn't a monster hit (... #1) by any stretch without the fans. 

I'm not saying this to attack Taylor, either. I love her. I would even say the same for Gaga with SL and ROM (to a lesser extent). I guess my point is that 'peaks' are usually fan-driven and not reflective of overall popularity. Whereas a song like, say, 'Old Town Road' hitting #1 was organic and truly 'deserved' in terms of popularity. 

oh i completely agree with willow not actually being the most popular song that week. i just think it's unfair to compare willow to butter. willow had actual popularity and would've always ended up charting around #25, with or without the number one debut. butter wouldn't even chart at all without the fans.

[PEZ 6,226]

The article's author got absolutely bombarded by the Army on Twitter for several days, as you probably could have guessed I did laugh at this reply though:

 

[Runway 27,876]

Expose them

[OMonster 14,667]

1 minute ago, Melancholia said:

oh i completely agree with willow not actually being the most popular song that week. i just think it's unfair to compare willow to butter. willow had actual popularity and would've always ended up charting around #25, with or without the number one debut. butter wouldn't even chart at all without the fans.

That's probably very true, too. But do we want the charts to exclude fans?

 

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

6 minutes ago, PEZ said:

The article's author got absolutely bombarded by the Army on Twitter for several days, as you probably could have guessed I did laugh at this reply though:

 

Old white men doing there thing. Delegitimizing a minority win. 

And people here agreeing. As if GagaDaily it's self didn't turn into a streaming player last week for Gaga.

[LOVEDRUG 10,459]

3 minutes ago, OMonster said:

That's probably very true, too. But do we want the charts to exclude fans?

 

of course not, the size of a fanbase is, after all, reflective of an artist's actual popularity. but the issue comes when fanbases weaponise streaming tactics to get their favourite artist to number one. it's literally just bts that this issue lies with right now, since they have close to zero general-public-popularity right now, and other artists like taylor, gaga etc. do have that popularity. whilst taylor's number one debuts were over-inflated, the sheer existence of bts' debuts is the result of effective cheating. taylor would've charted regardless, bts... not necessarily.

just look at other kpop groups with a similiar popularity to bts... blackpink, twice etc. they aren't getting the number one debuts, despite being as successful as bts internationally, because their fanbases aren't AS obsessed with streaming and falsely inflating numbers. the reason why the average american might've heard of bts and not twice is, in my opinion, because bts getting a number one makes them notable. if bts weren't getting these hugely inflated achievements, people wouldn't care as much.