Gwen Stefani defends herself against longtime cultural appropriation claims

[ChavaWM 1,834]

I loved her chola phase, it was exactly like how my family was. My cousins and sisters all looked like that and loved it too. We are from Orange/Anaheim area too and never felt offended 

[js4754394o9823 6,882]

4 hours ago, Esteban said:

This ! I'm not Japenese so I cant really talk but I saw that reaction video of japenese people when Katy Perry wore a kimono and it fits to what you say

 

kimono is not the bad thing here
she was walking with 4 japanese girls like they were her accesory, selling japanese stuff as her brand and making money off of it
and japanese culture is not the only one that she used
gwen was wearing bantu knots, cornrows and braids
walking with bindi on her head just because it looked cool
she even has a music video when she saves a magical brown baby sitting on the street, cmon

and i'm not saying she should be cancelled, or something
but acting like what she did was perfeclty fine is kinda ignorant

[HEARTSTOP 3,129]

As I see it, the problem with cultural appropriation seems to be that, when people of a certain culture do something, they are bashed and ridiculed for it, but when a white person does it, it's cool and fashionable, right?

So, is the white person appreciating a culture the problem? Or is the actual problem people bashing other people for their culture? 

I'd bet on the latter, but everyone seems to be too busy pointing fingers at the people who actually appreciate the culture.

[Esteban 2,295]

1 hour ago, kukuryku666 said:

kimono is not the bad thing here
she was walking with 4 japanese girls like they were her accesory, selling japanese stuff as her brand and making money off of it
and japanese culture is not the only one that she used
gwen was wearing bantu knots, cornrows and braids
walking with bindi on her head just because it looked cool
she even has a music video when she saves a magical brown baby sitting on the street, cmon

and i'm not saying she should be cancelled, or something
but acting like what she did was perfeclty fine is kinda ignorat

I don't see why cultural apropriation is problematic in some cases and not in others. In my opinion it's more racist to think there are untouchable cultures because it's stigmatizing, we don't drag american people when they act like french or russian clichés for example. Mixing cultures is showing an interest in these cultures and it allows people to discover them.  If artists have to stay in their boxes and only express themselves through their suposed birth culture it's like an artistic segregation.
And please don't call me ignoRAT it's offensive 

[Tobcho 367]

8 hours ago, Franch Toast said:

I think Gwen is extremely well-intentioned and has never acted with malice, but she's naïve about some things.  She's not very worldly, but I think that's part of her down-to-earth charm for many. 

- Tony's mom introduced her to the bindi, and gave her a bunch, and she thought they were beautiful & cool and started wearing them and kept on wearing them even after they broke up. (My hunch is because she was still in love with him even after he dumped her, she felt connected to him by wearing them.) The problem is some Indian American women saw this and felt like it was unfair because when they wore bindis, they were made fun of as being weird, but suddenly a white woman wore them and they became the fashion of the day. I honestly think Gwen wore them out of love for Tony and his culture, and when people criticize her for this, they fail to mention the fact that Tony's mom gave them to her and encouraged her to wear them. 

- In terms of the "Luxurious" video, my understanding is she was paying homage to her predominantly Latino high school in Anaheim. From what I have read, it was mainly non-Latinos people who had a problem with the video. 

- I think the Harajuku Girls phase was the most problematic, but not because of her borrowing from Japanese culture: It's because she turned four women of Japanese ancestry, one of whom had never even been to Japan, into props and made them accompany her everywhere and keep silent. (Even at the end of her concerts, she introduced everyone else by their real names, but them as Love, Angel, Music, and Baby.)  This in turn reinforced stereotypes of East Asian women being quiet and submissive, and given the paucity of Asian/Asian American representation in the US media, ticked off a lot of Asian Americans, most famously Margaret Cho. There's a Jonathan Ross interview where slimy Jonathan Ross even asks if the Harajuku Girls, who are sitting backstage, can give him handj*bs (which plays into the stereotype of East Asian women as sex workers), and Gwen clearly looks uncomfortable but instead of calling him out on his racism and misogyny, laughs it off and tells him he's naughty. (Yeah, it's not her fault he was a jerk, and I do cut her some slack because she was probably too shocked to know what to do and froze.) However, I will say that all four dancers have said glowing things about Gwen publicly, including on their social media accounts, praising her for teaching them professionalism and giving them opportunities such as walking their first red carpets, etc., and they kept on working with her. One even appeared in No Doubt's "Settle Down" video, and two of them in her "Let Me Reintroduce Myself" video. They seem to genuinely love and respect her. 

I think ultimately it comes down to the fact that Japanese people in Japan have no shortage of representation, so it doesn't really bother most of them, but for Asian Americans, women especially, some felt like they were being reduced to mascots based on stereotypes. Obviously, this wasn't Gwen's intention, but the reality is as a wealthy white woman, she has benefited and made tons of $$ off the image of Asian women. (She also has her Harajuku Lovers clothing line, perfumes, and a cartoon.) I also think she didn't do the best job of articulating her vision of what the Harajuku Girls represented to her. All of this said, I wish someone would sit down with her, preferably an Asian American woman writer, and explain to her why some people were upset, because I think Gwen, as much as I love, love, love her, just doesn't get it, and instead, she keeps resorting to defensiveness. 

- The "Looking Hot" video. That was a hot mess that never should've been green-lit, but that's on the whole band and their team, not Gwen specifically, and it totally effed up the reception of Push & Shove. 

- Cowboy culture. No one gets after her for this, but ever since she started dating Blake, she's adorned herself with fringe, cowgirl boots, and other attire and accessories that seem adjacent to "cowboy culture" or "country life." The thing is, some of these outfits are so over the top and I don't think are actually worn by people as everyday attire, and yet, I have never seen anyone accuse her of cultural appropriation over this, maybe because she's white and that's seen as white culture? To be clear, I don't think it's appropriation, and I don't think anyone should be mad at her for it; I'm just pointing out that people aren't in an uproar over her love affair with fringe and cowgirl boots. And yet, I see it similar to her wearing the bindi: She's head over heels in love with Blake, and she's trying to connect to what she perceives to be his culture, and he seems to think it's cute. She even wears a god-ass ugly cowgirl outfit for the finale of her Vegas residency to celebrate their love. I think her adoption of this fashion actually shows that her borrowings and reinterpretations of various cultures' clothing is an act of love and respect and that she has never meant to hurt anyone with this, and that her intentions are in fact the opposite. Of course, the power dynamics are very different, because at the end of the day, she's a white girl wearing clothes associated with white people, but I'm theorizing that this stems from the same impulse. 

However, her intentions don't change the fact that her actions have hurt some people; I wish she would acknowledge this more instead of acting so defensive. 

But a side note to all of this: No Doubt was pretty extraordinary not only for being one of the only woman-fronted bands in the 1990s, but also for having an Asian American bassist, and not only that, one of the best albums of the 90s was written about how much Gwen loved him and how he broke her heart. Considering the fact that Asian American men don't get a lot of attention in the media even now and often are portrayed as emasculated, this was ground-breaking back in the 90s. 

(Yes, I wrote you the sequel to Anna Karenina here, and I didn't even comment on her "Misery" performance or reggae and ska fashion.) 

 

oh wow this is such an insightful overview of her career and fashion. Thank you

[js4754394o9823 6,882]

1 hour ago, Esteban said:

I don't see why cultural apropriation is problematic in some cases and not in others. In my opinion it's more racist to think there are untouchable cultures because it's stigmatizing, we don't drag american people when they act like french or russian clichés for example. Mixing cultures is showing an interest in these cultures and it allows people to discover them.  If artists have to stay in their boxes and only express themselves through their suposed birth culture it's like an artistic segregation.
And please don't call me ignoRAT it's offensive 

cultural appropriation is always problematic

wearing someone else's culture when it doesn't mean anything to you, but looks good is not celebrating anything
it's rude and disrecpectful
and when people who made it are opressed for wearing it, while you with your privileges are being praised for looking cool
it's even worst

i said that kimono wasn't really that bad, only because most japanese people don't have a problem with it

but taking their stuff and selling it as your own is shitty af
and for that a lot of japanese people called her out, years ago

being a white lady with 4 pretty girls walking behind you, not saying a word is really not a cute look

black stuff are whole other story, espacially when talking about white, rich american lady
while she was filming music videos, black women were killed and fired from their jobs for wearing protective hairstyles that were made for their hair

//also that ignoRAT killed me, lmao
fixed

[Esteban 2,295]

2 hours ago, kukuryku666 said:

cultural appropriation is always problematic

wearing someone else's culture when it doesn't mean anything to you, but looks good is not celebrating anything
it's rude and disrecpectful
and when people who made it are opressed for wearing it, while you with your privileges are being praised for looking cool
it's even worst

i said that kimono wasn't really that bad, only because most japanese people don't have a problem with it

but taking their stuff and selling it as your own is shitty af
and for that a lot of japanese people called her out, years ago

being a white lady with 4 pretty girls walking behind you, not saying a word is really not a cute look

black stuff are whole other story, espacially when talking about white, rich american lady
while she was filming music videos, black women were killed and fired from their jobs for wearing protective hairstyles that were made for their hair

//also that ignoRAT killed me, lmao
fixed

If you want to think that way it's up to you  

[gag 22,449]

The problem with the discussion re: cultural appropriation is everyone ignores underlying nuances. Speaking from my own experience/cultures: Japanese people are celebratory of foreigners using the kimono (e.g. Katy Perry), while Viet people tore Kacey Musgraves to SHREDS for using the áo dài.

It's such a broad topic that varies case by case and culture by culture, so it's absolutely ****ing frustrating to see people boil it down to either 'all cultural appropriation is bad' or 'only snowflakes are offended by this!!! REAL POC love it'... both of which are dominating the discourse. 

[ChicaSkas 21,523]

5 hours ago, kukuryku666 said:

kimono is not the bad thing here
she was walking with 4 japanese girls like they were her accesory, selling japanese stuff as her brand and making money off of it
and japanese culture is not the only one that she used
gwen was wearing bantu knots, cornrows and braids
walking with bindi on her head just because it looked cool
she even has a music video when she saves a magical brown baby sitting on the street, cmon

and i'm not saying she should be cancelled, or something
but acting like what she did was perfeclty fine is kinda ignorant

That magical baby was meant to be the artistic fantasy baby that she could have had with Tony and didn't. It was art.

[Franch Toast 25,511]

8 minutes ago, ChicaSkas said:

That magical baby was meant to be the artistic fantasy baby that she could have had with Tony and didn't. It was art.

Came here to say that, but I had to re-watch the video first. The video starts out with her and Tony cuddling as she sings about how in love and obsessed she was with him until she gets to the line "it didn't work out, I'm covered in shells" and then breaks away, and we get the wedding scene. I always thought the baby at the end was supposed to represent the baby she would've had with Tony. There are several interviews where she says all she wanted to do was marry Tony and have his babies, and I saw this video as the embodiment of that. 

I already wrote about the bindis in my Tolstoy-sized post, but this wasn't her just slapping them on her face because they were cool––Tony's mom gave them to her and encouraged her to wear them. 

I also already addressed the Harajuku Girls, which indeed are/were problematic, but I see that as a very different issue from the SKOL baby and the bindis. 

[SFX 51]

Cultural appropriation doesn't exist, it was just dreamt up by sad people who want to complain about even more than they already do and need to get a life. If people are doing it as a homage or because they enjoy it and not being offensive then what's the ****ing problem?

[GagaSine 7,464]

It makes me really sad to see people saying cultural appropriation doesn't exist, which is completely ignoring the material realities of indigenous people in north America who's culture was destroyed and banned, and then white people burn sage and sell dream catchers... there's a little thing called nuance. 

When it is illegal for you to practice your culture (I believe many traditional dances and practices were against the law until 1958) but white people make money off of it, that is cultural appropriation.

I hate this website full of ignorant reactionaries.

[Franch Toast 25,511]

4 hours ago, HEARTSTOP said:

As I see it, the problem with cultural appropriation seems to be that, when people of a certain culture do something, they are bashed and ridiculed for it, but when a white person does it, it's cool and fashionable, right?

So, is the white person appreciating a culture the problem? Or is the actual problem people bashing other people for their culture? 

I'd bet on the latter, but everyone seems to be too busy pointing fingers at the people who actually appreciate the culture.

Yes! I think the problem ultimately is when people of color are bashed for their culture due to systemic racism, but then white people are able to adopt aspects of those cultures without facing the same discrimination. So to use the example of Gwen and the bindis: Indian American women wear them and are mocked for not assimilating; she wears them, and they're cool, and all the white girls flock to Claire's to buy bindi kits. It's not Gwen's fault that people are racist, but it sucks that it's okay for white people to wear them while Indian  American women, for whom this is part of their culture, are mocked for it. The problem is the racism ingrained in society. The same thing happens with so-called "ethnic" food. Asian kids were made fun of for their smelly lunches, but now the same food is trendy among white people. Why do white people have to give the stamp of approval for these things to be deemed legitimate? But again, this is a systemic issue we need to address; it's not really about what pop stars wear, though it does suck when white people keep profiting off of the culture of people of color. 

7 hours ago, Joaco95 said:

Damn I haaaate the video cause it buried the rest of the P&S era (I mean the album was kinda overproduced but Sparkle and the acoustic sessions>>>>>) and basically ended ND lol

I love "Sparkle" and all of the acoustic sessions!...I actually like a lot of tracks on P&S, and "Settle Down" is one of my fave ND songs ever (and I love the acoustic version in particular)...It sucks that the "Looking Hot" fiasco ruined the era and potentially contributed to the breaking up of the band. (I still can't figure out what's going on with them, because they did tour in 2015, so it's not like the lukewarm reception of P&S in 2012/2013 deterred them from working together; I always wondered if Gwen's unexpected pregnancy with Apollo and then the crumbling of her marriage is what did it, because she understandably was no longer focused on making another album with them at the time...But that's for another thread...)

[Franch Toast 25,511]

12 minutes ago, GagaSine said:

It makes me really sad to see people saying cultural appropriation doesn't exist, which is completely ignoring the material realities of indigenous people in north America who's culture was destroyed and banned, and then white people burn sage and sell dream catchers... there's a little thing called nuance. 

When it is illegal for you to practice your culture (I believe many traditional dances and practices were against the law until 1958) but white people make money off of it, that is cultural appropriation.

I hate this website full of ignorant reactionaries.

Yes, this is very important! There's a great book called Covering by law professor Kenji Yoshino that addresses some of these issues. I heard him give a talk based on the book, and it was extremely eye-opening. Some examples he gave were how Filipina nurses are scolded at work (or even fired)  for speaking Tagalog and not acting American enough, or Black people being asked to change their "ethnic" hairstyles or cover them up, or how racial minorities are pressed to change their names to "fit in," etc. 

So when white people are celebrated for adopting elements of non-white cultures and profit off of those cultures while people from that culture are disparaged for doing so (or, as you point out, when aspects of their culture are even banned), it's extremely problematic. 

 

 

[Robo Ga 14,646]

12 hours ago, Franch Toast said:

 

YIKES!!