Bojo breaks COVID lockdown to patronise Scotland

[Better Day 5,766]

3 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Do you have a problem with other world leaders doing this very thing? This is standard work as PM, pandemic or not. You have to show you care about everyone, keep up morale, whether it's genuine or not. I don't see threads started for everytime foreign world leaders do the very same thing he's doing. It goes to show there's bias against him, his party and the English when he does it. And its behaviour like this that'll put him off granting any rights to referendums. We don't have to put up with it because we're "good little Scotland" but because we are part of the UK, whether we like it or not. You don't see Wales or Northern Ireland kicking up a fuss every time a political decision happens that they don't like. Because when you're part of a country, you just have to accept the rough with the smooth. Ever since we lost independence, SNP supporters seem to think that we did get it for some reason and the very fact we got a chance to choose is now a sign that England should just let us do whatever we want. It doesn't work like that. The entire population of Scotland is smaller than the city of London. Do you see London wanting to go independent every time it thinks differently to the rest of the UK? No, that would be absurd. Scotland and London were the two places that were major supporters of staying in the EU. Scotland wanted to go independent because they didn't get what they want, London just accepted it. Where does Scotland's entitlement come from? We're part of the UK, get used to it.

There was £20 million announced by UK Research & Innovation to find a cure. A vaccine development taskforce was set up all the way back in April to ready for a vaccine if it came: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/new-uk-taskforce-to-help-develop-and-roll-out-coronavirus-vaccine

All this money, time and effort is the result of England and the UK as a whole and why we have so many people getting vaccinated now. If England wasn't producing that vaccine, we'd have less and we wouldn't be granted access to it as an independent Scotland. Because of England, we had these breakthroughs and are benefitting from them as part of the UK.

I'm tired of hearing about what the polls say. We gave an answer in 2014. Once in a lifetime or once in a generation, whatever was claimed at the time, it was done. They're just annoyed because they didn't get the result the wanted and repeating history in order to get the "right" result is the opposite of democracy. The SNP tear down England any time they have the chance, Nicola's always trying to one up Boris and make announcement before him right now and is always making a point of saying how Scotland's dealing with the virus so much better than England, is always saying how we do something better in Scotland than in England. And I've witnessed the real English hate among SNP supporters and it's far more widespread than just Westminster. People are going through enough upheaval and grief right now. The last thing we need is another independence vote when the world's in ruins.

I don’t care about other leaders in other countries, they don’t affect me. I care about the leaders in this country and in my count, Bojo visiting a hospital to prove the union is strong is not essential. I bet if Nicola Sturgeon did it all of the tories would want her head on platter, I.e her face mask “row”. He’s hardly going to keep up morale for people who can’t stand him and his Tory lies. His record in this pandemic has been nothing sort of criminal. So much evidence to show that his party and its donors has profited from the pandemic. Dodgy contracts going to Tory donors using YOURS, MINES and everyone in the UKs money, Starmer hasn’t really condemned him. A political decision, NI - got the NI protocol, Gibraltar became closer to the EU, Scotland - dragged out with a worse deal than we had with the EU - who is the most disadvantaged. May ignored us when the SNP was wanting in negotiations, Bojo has just belittled us. A party Scotland has not voted for since 1955. 
 

The difference between London and Scotland is Scotland is a sovereign country, London is a city. Independence is normal, they are an appetite for it. After 2014, I accepted we were in the UK until Brexit, does our 62% vote mean anything? Yes it does since we’ve been dragged out of it. I see more benefits of being in the EU than the UK, at least our voice will be heard within the EU. What entitlement? What are you on about? Our entitlement for our votes to mean something, our entitlement not to be ignored by our Government, so yet again, WE VOTED 62% to remain in the EU yet we are dragged out and you are saying we just need to accept something because we are in a “union of equals”. 
 

Yes, we are benefiting from the vaccine by being in the UK but yet again, the UK gov is not following the advice on a lot of the vaccines. 
 

Yes we have an answer to remain part of the United Kingdom within the European Union and yet again, we voted to remain and we left because England voted to leave the EU. “once in a generation” within the Good Friday Agreemenf (I think) is 7 years within a political life). They have been a massive material change within those 7 years and the PEOPLE are demanding another referendum to see if we should stay or leave this new UK. Brexit has changed everything, do you understand? Announcements before him? What? She announces for Scotland, not England. It is just unfornately that Bojo drags his feet when it comes to lockdown whereas Nicola is very proactive. 
 

I don’t know where you are seeing the English hate, within any movement they are always nutcases but they are a small percentage. Everyone I know who supports independence just hates Westminister politics. I will never understand why anyone wouldn’t want their own country to have full say over all matters and stick to a union that is very toxic and very corrupt as the Tory party is. Deal with it, due to Brexit and a lot of my rights being taking away I will be voting for the option of joining the EU. 

[StrawberryBlond 15,685]

2 hours ago, Miss Dolly said:

I don’t care about other leaders in other countries, they don’t affect me. I care about the leaders in this country and in my count, Bojo visiting a hospital to prove the union is strong is not essential. I bet if Nicola Sturgeon did it all of the tories would want her head on platter, I.e her face mask “row”. He’s hardly going to keep up morale for people who can’t stand him and his Tory lies. His record in this pandemic has been nothing sort of criminal. So much evidence to show that his party and its donors has profited from the pandemic. Dodgy contracts going to Tory donors using YOURS, MINES and everyone in the UKs money, Starmer hasn’t really condemned him. A political decision, NI - got the NI protocol, Gibraltar became closer to the EU, Scotland - dragged out with a worse deal than we had with the EU - who is the most disadvantaged. May ignored us when the SNP was wanting in negotiations, Bojo has just belittled us. A party Scotland has not voted for since 1955. 
 

The difference between London and Scotland is Scotland is a sovereign country, London is a city. Independence is normal, they are an appetite for it. After 2014, I accepted we were in the UK until Brexit, does our 62% vote mean anything? Yes it does since we’ve been dragged out of it. I see more benefits of being in the EU than the UK, at least our voice will be heard within the EU. What entitlement? What are you on about? Our entitlement for our votes to mean something, our entitlement not to be ignored by our Government, so yet again, WE VOTED 62% to remain in the EU yet we are dragged out and you are saying we just need to accept something because we are in a “union of equals”. 
 

Yes, we are benefiting from the vaccine by being in the UK but yet again, the UK gov is not following the advice on a lot of the vaccines. 
 

Yes we have an answer to remain part of the United Kingdom within the European Union and yet again, we voted to remain and we left because England voted to leave the EU. “once in a generation” within the Good Friday Agreemenf (I think) is 7 years within a political life). They have been a massive material change within those 7 years and the PEOPLE are demanding another referendum to see if we should stay or leave this new UK. Brexit has changed everything, do you understand? Announcements before him? What? She announces for Scotland, not England. It is just unfornately that Bojo drags his feet when it comes to lockdown whereas Nicola is very proactive. 
 

I don’t know where you are seeing the English hate, within any movement they are always nutcases but they are a small percentage. Everyone I know who supports independence just hates Westminister politics. I will never understand why anyone wouldn’t want their own country to have full say over all matters and stick to a union that is very toxic and very corrupt as the Tory party is. Deal with it, due to Brexit and a lot of my rights being taking away I will be voting for the option of joining the EU. 

It's simply making sure the same standards are upheld when the likes of Nicola apparently forgets to wear a mask at a gathering. If someone is so strident about policies, they'd better make sure they're upholding them to the letter. And politicians do live under a microscope where their every little mistake will be magnified and a bigger deal made of it.

No, frankly, our 62% vote means nothing because we're part of the UK. We need to stop acting like we're an independent nation when we're not. Democracy works by majority rules verdicts. It doesn't matter if everyone on one side of the room says one thing, if the majority on the other side is bigger, they win. It's just how it works. And sometimes verdicts are close but that's the name of the game. It's funny how so many SNP supporters were adamant that the different between Leave and Remain was not big enough for us to make a decision (which I agree with, actually) but at the same time, claim that recent polls in Scotland claiming that 51% of Scots want independence is enough of a majority to deserve a referendum. Isn't just over half the country (apparently) wanting independence more of a divided opinion than a majority one? It's clear they're only about upholding democracy when it suits what they want to hear and small differences between yes and no verdicts matter or don't matter depending on what the subject involves.

What do you mean by the UK isn't following advice for the vaccines?

7 years within a political life? First I've heard of this. Sounded like it was always phrased as this is a vote you'll only ever make once in your life and by the time the next one comes around, you'll be dead. By getting in before him, I mean that whenever you hear on the news that Boris is making an announcement in a day or two, before you know it, Nicola declares she's got an announcement to make and talks more about new restrictions or tiers just before he announces his. It's a clear ploy to make it appear like Scotland is one step ahead of the game. When Boris announced 3 tiers, she announced 6. It's like oneupmanship.

I see English hate from this side all the time and the sad thing is, it's breeding resentment among the English towards us in a way that wasn't there before. So many times now I'm seeing very distressing things like "I just to be fine with the Scots but they're getting on my nerves now. If they want independence, let them, and let's see how fast they want to come back with their begging bowl asking us for money." Thing is, I already feel like Scotland does have its own say in so many things, never have I felt like I'm being lorded over, controlled or persecuted by England. And the Tories won't be in power forever. And Labour aren't much better either. No political party is free of corruption or is perfect. Especially the SNP! And just remember if we do leave Britain, we'll have to rejoin the EU and we'll be at the bottom of the heap, where our voice won't be heard and we'll be a much smaller populated country with no clout against heavyweights like France and Germany. A nation of 5 million is nothing even in Europe. And I suspect we'll be massively looked down upon if we refuse to transfer to the euro and Nicola has made it very clear that she wants to keep the pound, so, I wouldn't expect a warm reception.

[Better Day 5,766]

14 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

It's simply making sure the same standards are upheld when the likes of Nicola apparently forgets to wear a mask at a gathering. If someone is so strident about policies, they'd better make sure they're upholding them to the letter. And politicians do live under a microscope where their every little mistake will be magnified and a bigger deal made of it.

No, frankly, our 62% vote means nothing because we're part of the UK. We need to stop acting like we're an independent nation when we're not. Democracy works by majority rules verdicts. It doesn't matter if everyone on one side of the room says one thing, if the majority on the other side is bigger, they win. It's just how it works. And sometimes verdicts are close but that's the name of the game. It's funny how so many SNP supporters were adamant that the different between Leave and Remain was not big enough for us to make a decision (which I agree with, actually) but at the same time, claim that recent polls in Scotland claiming that 51% of Scots want independence is enough of a majority to deserve a referendum. Isn't just over half the country (apparently) wanting independence more of a divided opinion than a majority one? It's clear they're only about upholding democracy when it suits what they want to hear and small differences between yes and no verdicts matter or don't matter depending on what the subject involves.

What do you mean by the UK isn't following advice for the vaccines?

7 years within a political life? First I've heard of this. Sounded like it was always phrased as this is a vote you'll only ever make once in your life and by the time the next one comes around, you'll be dead. By getting in before him, I mean that whenever you hear on the news that Boris is making an announcement in a day or two, before you know it, Nicola declares she's got an announcement to make and talks more about new restrictions or tiers just before he announces his. It's a clear ploy to make it appear like Scotland is one step ahead of the game. When Boris announced 3 tiers, she announced 6. It's like oneupmanship.

I see English hate from this side all the time and the sad thing is, it's breeding resentment among the English towards us in a way that wasn't there before. So many times now I'm seeing very distressing things like "I just to be fine with the Scots but they're getting on my nerves now. If they want independence, let them, and let's see how fast they want to come back with their begging bowl asking us for money." Thing is, I already feel like Scotland does have its own say in so many things, never have I felt like I'm being lorded over, controlled or persecuted by England. And the Tories won't be in power forever. And Labour aren't much better either. No political party is free of corruption or is perfect. Especially the SNP! And just remember if we do leave Britain, we'll have to rejoin the EU and we'll be at the bottom of the heap, where our voice won't be heard and we'll be a much smaller populated country with no clout against heavyweights like France and Germany. A nation of 5 million is nothing even in Europe. And I suspect we'll be massively looked down upon if we refuse to transfer to the euro and Nicola has made it very clear that she wants to keep the pound, so, I wouldn't expect a warm reception.

Nicola Sturgeon forgetting her mask for a simple mistake, in the photo she was clearly social distancing from the two ladies and she was leaving the venue she was in and the two ladies called her over, simple mistake. It’s not like the Dominic Cummings eye test. I bet if you ask everyone walking down Buchanan Street the vast majority of them will have forgot their mask at some point. Apart from that Nicola Sturgeon has followed the rules. 
 

Do you truly hate your country that much? Our vote, the 62% means nothing because we are within the UK. Yet again England voted to leave the EU and we are dragged out despite Scotland voting overwhelmingly to remain, I would of understood if the percentage was near 50% but it was over 60% of Scots voted to remain. That gives a mandate for another referendum because that was not the UK we were promised in 2014. The thing about the polls is they are 20 in a row for independence, that shouldn’t be ignored, as long as the SNP/Green get a majority in Holyrood in May that tells you they are an appetite for another referendum. I am a great believer in democracy and Scotland voting to remain in the EU within a union, not a single country, does mean something. No matter what you say. 
 

I’m not fully clued up with the vaccine situation but the vaccines should be injected 3 weeks apart from a lot of people have to wait for 12 weeks. 
 

Yes, a political life is 7 years. Since 2015 they have been 3 UK elections because the PM at the time wanted a majority, how is that democracy as 2015 parliament was meant to end last May. I don’t think Nicola Sturgeon cares enough about Bojo to copy him, you are exaggerating there, they are 5 tiers in Scotland which did work whereas in England they are 4 and it barely worked. 
 

And they aren’t bigots in the unionist side? Of course they are, you cannot dismountal a movement because a small percentage of bigots. I don’t think we have a say, Scottish MPs never voted for Trident, HS2, Brexit, the Brexit deal, bombing of Syria but we got them all because of the 533 MPs in England the majority of them voted for them and they are imposed on Scotland despite us against them. 
Yes the tories won’t be in forever but do you really want to ruled for the next decade by a party that clearly hates Scotland and poor people, instead we have the opportunity to actually get Governments voted by the Scottish people, for the Scottish people, not get Governments because England voted for them. I have never once said that the SNP is perfect but the Westminister parties are too corrupt for my liking. 
 

May I say, do you research into the EU and the UK, the differences are massive. One, we would have our voice heard in the EU no matter the size of the country, the other we don’t and everything in the EU is voted on by elected officials where we are the unelected House of Lords and ruled by a woman that hasn’t moved a finger in her life. So yeah, the UK is not working for Scotland and we need out and back into the EU as soon as it is humanly possible. 

[StrawberryBlond 15,685]

4 hours ago, Miss Dolly said:

Nicola Sturgeon forgetting her mask for a simple mistake, in the photo she was clearly social distancing from the two ladies and she was leaving the venue she was in and the two ladies called her over, simple mistake. It’s not like the Dominic Cummings eye test. I bet if you ask everyone walking down Buchanan Street the vast majority of them will have forgot their mask at some point. Apart from that Nicola Sturgeon has followed the rules. 
 

Do you truly hate your country that much? Our vote, the 62% means nothing because we are within the UK. Yet again England voted to leave the EU and we are dragged out despite Scotland voting overwhelmingly to remain, I would of understood if the percentage was near 50% but it was over 60% of Scots voted to remain. That gives a mandate for another referendum because that was not the UK we were promised in 2014. The thing about the polls is they are 20 in a row for independence, that shouldn’t be ignored, as long as the SNP/Green get a majority in Holyrood in May that tells you they are an appetite for another referendum. I am a great believer in democracy and Scotland voting to remain in the EU within a union, not a single country, does mean something. No matter what you say. 
 

I’m not fully clued up with the vaccine situation but the vaccines should be injected 3 weeks apart from a lot of people have to wait for 12 weeks. 
 

Yes, a political life is 7 years. Since 2015 they have been 3 UK elections because the PM at the time wanted a majority, how is that democracy as 2015 parliament was meant to end last May. I don’t think Nicola Sturgeon cares enough about Bojo to copy him, you are exaggerating there, they are 5 tiers in Scotland which did work whereas in England they are 4 and it barely worked. 
 

And they aren’t bigots in the unionist side? Of course they are, you cannot dismountal a movement because a small percentage of bigots. I don’t think we have a say, Scottish MPs never voted for Trident, HS2, Brexit, the Brexit deal, bombing of Syria but we got them all because of the 533 MPs in England the majority of them voted for them and they are imposed on Scotland despite us against them. 
Yes the tories won’t be in forever but do you really want to ruled for the next decade by a party that clearly hates Scotland and poor people, instead we have the opportunity to actually get Governments voted by the Scottish people, for the Scottish people, not get Governments because England voted for them. I have never once said that the SNP is perfect but the Westminister parties are too corrupt for my liking. 
 

May I say, do you research into the EU and the UK, the differences are massive. One, we would have our voice heard in the EU no matter the size of the country, the other we don’t and everything in the EU is voted on by elected officials where we are the unelected House of Lords and ruled by a woman that hasn’t moved a finger in her life. So yeah, the UK is not working for Scotland and we need out and back into the EU as soon as it is humanly possible. 

You can't just say this is a sign we need independence every time a situation comes up that you disagree with. Lots of Scots also wanted to leave but you discount that and only see the verdict you want to see. 38% of Scots who wanted to leave is still an awful lot and you don't speak for them. I'm tired of the SNP thinking they speak for all of us. If they want to talk about independence, I wish they'd do it from a more personal point of view and stop using phrases like "Scotland wants this/didn't want this." I voted Leave with a heavy heart because I knew doing so would get my vote assumed to be for SNP/independence support even though it had nothing to do with it. And sure enough, that's how it got interpreted. Not every vote we make is about independence or a vote for Scotland.

It's nothing to do with hating my country. It's about loving it and wanting us to leave in peace. I hate upheaval, no routine and massive change in my life, things are stressful enough as it is without becoming an independent country. I just want politicians who just keep things the way they are and we barely notice they're there.

And it only seems like Scotland is handling it better because we have a much smaller population and a massive rural population with less density. Try dealing with 58 million+ people and see how any politician or any country would cope then.

At least no one on the unionist side is trying to shake up people's lives and just wants thing to kept the same. There's no harm in what they're doing. But breaking up Scotland could do untold harm to us that can never be repaired. I'm not a fan of any of the political parties, I'm just voting for the ones I hope let us down the least. The SNP have never done anything that impresses me and that opinion's not changing soon.

But in any case, I don't want to argue with you further as neither of our opinions are going to change anyway.

[Better Day 5,766]

16 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

You can't just say this is a sign we need independence every time a situation comes up that you disagree with. Lots of Scots also wanted to leave but you discount that and only see the verdict you want to see. 38% of Scots who wanted to leave is still an awful lot and you don't speak for them. I'm tired of the SNP thinking they speak for all of us. If they want to talk about independence, I wish they'd do it from a more personal point of view and stop using phrases like "Scotland wants this/didn't want this." I voted Leave with a heavy heart because I knew doing so would get my vote assumed to be for SNP/independence support even though it had nothing to do with it. And sure enough, that's how it got interpreted. Not every vote we make is about independence or a vote for Scotland.

It's nothing to do with hating my country. It's about loving it and wanting us to leave in peace. I hate upheaval, no routine and massive change in my life, things are stressful enough as it is without becoming an independent country. I just want politicians who just keep things the way they are and we barely notice they're there.

And it only seems like Scotland is handling it better because we have a much smaller population and a massive rural population with less density. Try dealing with 58 million+ people and see how any politician or any country would cope then.

At least no one on the unionist side is trying to shake up people's lives and just wants thing to kept the same. There's no harm in what they're doing. But breaking up Scotland could do untold harm to us that can never be repaired. I'm not a fan of any of the political parties, I'm just voting for the ones I hope let us down the least. The SNP have never done anything that impresses me and that opinion's not changing soon.

But in any case, I don't want to argue with you further as neither of our opinions are going to change anyway.

As far as I am aware we haven’t had another vote since 2014 and the SNP only started wanting another independence after a materialist change like Brexit, if all 4 nations within the UK voted to leave I don’t think they would be of been calls for another voter. 38% is minute compared to the 62% of Scots, it’s hardly close. It’s always shown in voting patterns what Scotland wants. Tell you it all, a head banging brexitier bought into the lies spewed by the biggest liars within the British establishment. 
 

I’m afraid politics doesn’t work like that. Everything in politics change, you voted Leave but you didn’t want anything to change.... explain that for me. 
 

Tbh, if the SNP at the start of the pandemic had full powers she would of handled it better but we were shackled to the chains of Bojo’s incompetence. Countries with bigger populations has handled it better than the UK, it is just the tories didn’t care about its people, just cared about making the rich richer. 
 

You do realise that Brexit happened not even a month ago and it’s already causing chaos, most of the people who voted for Brexit were unionists. You argument is flawed tbh. Brexit has caused unnecessary damage to the country. I will never say the SNP have the perfect record but things has improved in Scotland because they are the only parth that actually cares about the needs of Scotland and understand Scotland. The rest of them are corrupt. The big one for me if prescriptions and tuition fees which I/have benefit/ted from even to this day. 
 

Lets just agree to disagree at the moment. It was nice debating with you! 

[StrawberryBlond 15,685]

4 minutes ago, Miss Dolly said:

As far as I am aware we haven’t had another vote since 2014 and the SNP only started wanting another independence after a materialist change like Brexit, if all 4 nations within the UK voted to leave I don’t think they would be of been calls for another voter. 38% is minute compared to the 62% of Scots, it’s hardly close. It’s always shown in voting patterns what Scotland wants. Tell you it all, a head banging brexitier bought into the lies spewed by the biggest liars within the British establishment. 
 

I’m afraid politics doesn’t work like that. Everything in politics change, you voted Leave but you didn’t want anything to change.... explain that for me. 
 

Tbh, if the SNP at the start of the pandemic had full powers she would of handled it better but we were shackled to the chains of Bojo’s incompetence. Countries with bigger populations has handled it better than the UK, it is just the tories didn’t care about its people, just cared about making the rich richer. 
 

You do realise that Brexit happened not even a month ago and it’s already causing chaos, most of the people who voted for Brexit were unionists. You argument is flawed tbh. Brexit has caused unnecessary damage to the country. I will never say the SNP have the perfect record but things has improved in Scotland because they are the only parth that actually cares about the needs of Scotland and understand Scotland. The rest of them are corrupt. The big one for me if prescriptions and tuition fees which I/have benefit/ted from even to this day. 

The SNP have never shut up about wanting independence since they lost. No sooner had they lost than they started banging on about how we could get the chance again, as did all their supporters. The only time we got a respite from it was at the spring 2017 elections when the SNP lost a surprisingly big amount of seats and support wasn't as huge as initially projected. For a blessed year we didn't get a cheep of independence out of them. But it didn't take long before they started up again, using any excuse they could to stir the pot.

Pardon my mistake, my brain's been scrambled today, I meant to type Remain, not Leave. Seeing as I've said for a long time I'm a remainer to you, I thought you'd maybe have picked up on this strange turn of events. So, I meant to say "I voted Remain with a heavy heart as I knew that SNP supporters were voting Remain and the overwhelmingly feeling among them was that Remain vote = independence support and sure enough, that's how it was interpreted." They couldn't seem to understand that voting for one thing doesn't mean you buy into this code. My feeling about the EU have no correlation to my feelings about Scottish independence and they should never have been conflated. I was sad that we just had to move on and accept the result but I did eventually learn to accept it. I suggest we all do as there's no going back now.

Is everything that went wrong always the Tories fault? The problem is with the population for not following rules. It wouldn't have spread at all if people just stayed indoors and only went out when they absolutely had to but that wasn't what happened. Try telling a nation of millions what to do - of course they'll rebel. That's not the leader's fault. The most they can do is give guidelines, close borders and sign off on a vaccine but they can't force people to do what they want.

How has Brexit caused chaos so far? If anything, we got those vaccines in on time because we're not part of the EU vaccination programme anymore. Even a German newspaper stated it was the biggest advert for Brexit. Its been too early to have had negative affects yet anyway. Not saying there won't be but what's happened at the moment?

[ALGAYDO 35,453]

Omg am I on gaga daily or essays daily 

 

 

jk, y’all have your fun 

[Better Day 5,766]

3 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

The SNP have never shut up about wanting independence since they lost. No sooner had they lost than they started banging on about how we could get the chance again, as did all their supporters. The only time we got a respite from it was at the spring 2017 elections when the SNP lost a surprisingly big amount of seats and support wasn't as huge as initially projected. For a blessed year we didn't get a cheep of independence out of them. But it didn't take long before they started up again, using any excuse they could to stir the pot.

Pardon my mistake, my brain's been scrambled today, I meant to type Remain, not Leave. Seeing as I've said for a long time I'm a remainer to you, I thought you'd maybe have picked up on this strange turn of events. So, I meant to say "I voted Remain with a heavy heart as I knew that SNP supporters were voting Remain and the overwhelmingly feeling among them was that Remain vote = independence support and sure enough, that's how it was interpreted." They couldn't seem to understand that voting for one thing doesn't mean you buy into this code. My feeling about the EU have no correlation to my feelings about Scottish independence and they should never have been conflated. I was sad that we just had to move on and accept the result but I did eventually learn to accept it. I suggest we all do as there's no going back now.

Is everything that went wrong always the Tories fault? The problem is with the population for not following rules. It wouldn't have spread at all if people just stayed indoors and only went out when they absolutely had to but that wasn't what happened. Try telling a nation of millions what to do - of course they'll rebel. That's not the leader's fault. The most they can do is give guidelines, close borders and sign off on a vaccine but they can't force people to do what they want.

How has Brexit caused chaos so far? If anything, we got those vaccines in on time because we're not part of the EU vaccination programme anymore. Even a German newspaper stated it was the biggest advert for Brexit. Its been too early to have had negative affects yet anyway. Not saying there won't be but what's happened at the moment?

I quite frankly remember in the lead up to the 2015 GE the only mention of Independence was saying they would pursue another referendum if they were a materialist change such as Brexit which later came in 2016.  Yes the 2017 election was a strange election but they won back 13 (?) seats in 2019. I personally think the SNP was bidding her time with Brexit because negotiations were still going on at that point. 
 

Sorry for accusing you as a head banging brexitter, I despise them with all my heart. I will never settle with Brexit Britain no matter how much the UK means to Scotland. I would of accepted the result if Scotland voted to leave along with the other 3 nations within the UK but Scotland voting overwhelmingly to remain and us getting dragged out (answering your last paragraph as well) and us losing the freedom of movement, study or live within the EU just riles me up, I will never accept the EU referendum purely because of Scotland. 
 

No, not everything that went wrong was the tories fault but they are too blame for the mess COVID has left - Bojo missing 5 (?) COBR meetings, herd immunity, Dominic Cummings, Eat Out To Help Out, implementing further lockdowns too late. Yes, the SNP’s records isn’t clean when it comes to COVID but she tried her best. The leader of a country should always be held accountable when it comes to major incidents like this. Somethings are just out of the Governments control but this pandemic would of be solved if they shut the borders way back last March. 
 

I can’t comment on the EU vaccinations, I’m not fully clued up on what’s happening. 

[Better Day 5,766]

7 minutes ago, ALGAYDO said:

Omg am I on gaga daily or essays daily 

 

 

jk, y’all have your fun 

It’s a rap battle but in essay form

[AntonTurnItUp 7,088]

I misread Jojo 

[JoeMo 3,889]

23 hours ago, Miss Dolly said:

I don’t care about other leaders in other countries, they don’t affect me. I care about the leaders in this country and in my count, Bojo visiting a hospital to prove the union is strong is not essential. I bet if Nicola Sturgeon did it all of the tories would want her head on platter, I.e her face mask “row”. He’s hardly going to keep up morale for people who can’t stand him and his Tory lies. His record in this pandemic has been nothing sort of criminal. So much evidence to show that his party and its donors has profited from the pandemic. Dodgy contracts going to Tory donors using YOURS, MINES and everyone in the UKs money, Starmer hasn’t really condemned him. A political decision, NI - got the NI protocol, Gibraltar became closer to the EU, Scotland - dragged out with a worse deal than we had with the EU - who is the most disadvantaged. May ignored us when the SNP was wanting in negotiations, Bojo has just belittled us. A party Scotland has not voted for since 1955. 
 

The difference between London and Scotland is Scotland is a sovereign country, London is a city. Independence is normal, they are an appetite for it. After 2014, I accepted we were in the UK until Brexit, does our 62% vote mean anything? Yes it does since we’ve been dragged out of it. I see more benefits of being in the EU than the UK, at least our voice will be heard within the EU. What entitlement? What are you on about? Our entitlement for our votes to mean something, our entitlement not to be ignored by our Government, so yet again, WE VOTED 62% to remain in the EU yet we are dragged out and you are saying we just need to accept something because we are in a “union of equals”. 
 

Yes, we are benefiting from the vaccine by being in the UK but yet again, the UK gov is not following the advice on a lot of the vaccines. 
 

Yes we have an answer to remain part of the United Kingdom within the European Union and yet again, we voted to remain and we left because England voted to leave the EU. “once in a generation” within the Good Friday Agreemenf (I think) is 7 years within a political life). They have been a massive material change within those 7 years and the PEOPLE are demanding another referendum to see if we should stay or leave this new UK. Brexit has changed everything, do you understand? Announcements before him? What? She announces for Scotland, not England. It is just unfornately that Bojo drags his feet when it comes to lockdown whereas Nicola is very proactive. 
 

I don’t know where you are seeing the English hate, within any movement they are always nutcases but they are a small percentage. Everyone I know who supports independence just hates Westminister politics. I will never understand why anyone wouldn’t want their own country to have full say over all matters and stick to a union that is very toxic and very corrupt as the Tory party is. Deal with it, due to Brexit and a lot of my rights being taking away I will be voting for the option of joining the EU. 

All. Of. This. We need out. I voted no back in 2014 and I regret it so badly. 

[Better Day 5,766]

6 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

All. Of. This. We need out. I voted no back in 2014 and I regret it so badly. 

Welcome to the club. Always happy to have new members 

[StrawberryBlond 15,685]

2 hours ago, Miss Dolly said:

I quite frankly remember in the lead up to the 2015 GE the only mention of Independence was saying they would pursue another referendum if they were a materialist change such as Brexit which later came in 2016.  Yes the 2017 election was a strange election but they won back 13 (?) seats in 2019. I personally think the SNP was bidding her time with Brexit because negotiations were still going on at that point. 
 

Sorry for accusing you as a head banging brexitter, I despise them with all my heart. I will never settle with Brexit Britain no matter how much the UK means to Scotland. I would of accepted the result if Scotland voted to leave along with the other 3 nations within the UK but Scotland voting overwhelmingly to remain and us getting dragged out (answering your last paragraph as well) and us losing the freedom of movement, study or live within the EU just riles me up, I will never accept the EU referendum purely because of Scotland. 
 

No, not everything that went wrong was the tories fault but they are too blame for the mess COVID has left - Bojo missing 5 (?) COBR meetings, herd immunity, Dominic Cummings, Eat Out To Help Out, implementing further lockdowns too late. Yes, the SNP’s records isn’t clean when it comes to COVID but she tried her best. The leader of a country should always be held accountable when it comes to major incidents like this. Somethings are just out of the Governments control but this pandemic would of be solved if they shut the borders way back last March. 
 

I can’t comment on the EU vaccinations, I’m not fully clued up on what’s happening. 

Yes, that was them ready and waiting with excuses. If it wasn't Brexit, it would've been something else. Always waiting to see how they can spin independence rhetoric out of anything.

I think where we really differ is that when it comes to political elections that affect the length and breadth of the country, I don't divide it up by 4 different countries and what they thought. I just seem them as one big country and what the majority verdict was. Your insistence on always seeing Scotland as it own thing is pointless because we're one big country. And all that matters in one big country is a majority vote, regardless of where it falls. The USA's states can think radically different from each other but they aren't going independent and why should they? Different views are natural in a country with so many people living under different states but they just have to get on with it. Doing that has made them a richer, more prosperous country and by all those people working together, they're stronger. Smaller countries are more vulnerable and taxes and cost of living is much higher.

You really think anyone else in charge would've done better. No one's handling it perfectly, it all depends on luck. I really want to know why so many Scots think the SNP will be such great leaders. They've never shown how they can dramatically change things. All these parties are the same. They just want money and power. You can tell they just want the glory of knowing that they personally got us independence and get in the history books. My biggest question is: what if the verdict is No again? Will you still be asking for another referendum a few years later?

Well, read up on how the EU have botched all this vaccine distribution. It's a shambles. Its made them look terrible.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55844268

I'm still ultimately being a Remainer but if there's any good that can come out of being free of the EU, I'm all for it. I'm not going to just wish we go under to validate my confirmation bias.

[Better Day 5,766]

8 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yes, that was them ready and waiting with excuses. If it wasn't Brexit, it would've been something else. Always waiting to see how they can spin independence rhetoric out of anything.

I think where we really differ is that when it comes to political elections that affect the length and breadth of the country, I don't divide it up by 4 different countries and what they thought. I just seem them as one big country and what the majority verdict was. Your insistence on always seeing Scotland as it own thing is pointless because we're one big country. And all that matters in one big country is a majority vote, regardless of where it falls. The USA's states can think radically different from each other but they aren't going independent and why should they? Different views are natural in a country with so many people living under different states but they just have to get on with it. Doing that has made them a richer, more prosperous country and by all those people working together, they're stronger. Smaller countries are more vulnerable and taxes and cost of living is much higher.

You really think anyone else in charge would've done better. No one's handling it perfectly, it all depends on luck. I really want to know why so many Scots think the SNP will be such great leaders. They've never shown how they can dramatically change things. All these parties are the same. They just want money and power. You can tell they just want the glory of knowing that they personally got us independence and get in the history books. My biggest question is: what if the verdict is No again? Will you still be asking for another referendum a few years later?

Well, read up on how the EU have botched all this vaccine distribution. It's a shambles. Its made them look terrible.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55844268

I'm still ultimately being a Remainer but if there's any good that can come out of being free of the EU, I'm all for it. I'm not going to just wish we go under to validate my confirmation bias.

I feel I’m going to leave it here and let this thread go to the depth of GGD. My final points, I feel they are a demand for a second independence referendum because of Brexit, the EU referendum unnecessary and just political points for David Cameron and split the UK up essentially. I see the union as just a union of countries but not with equal representation. I will look forward to future debates over this issue. Thanks for a debate.