JusKeepBreathin 19,311 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 hours ago, littlepotter said: You seem to think we're canceling Chris Evans or something, or saying he is personally responsible for the imperialist undertones in superhero movies... which is very much not the case it's just very ironic how he talked about things "enabling" this violence, when "Captain America" whom he plays is a perfect example of something that enables a certain idea. People pointed this out, and everyone who felt uncomfortable by it accused those people of attacking him. I don't even know what break you are asking for... how have you been burdened by someone drawing parallels between superhero movies and imperialist notions? You're taking things to extremes and then projecting it onto this elusive "y'all." No one has blamed superhero movies for terrorists invading the Capitol. It's such a simplistic and black and white way of looking at things, that doesn't exist in the real world. There are nuances everywhere, that contribute in small or big ways to something. This is what Chris is talking about, that many things "enable" certain actions. The obvious imperialistic undertones in superhero movies - especially ones named "Captain America" - have to play into the identity of a white supremacist. It doesn't mean it "caused" it, it doesn't mean everyone who watches is going to catch those undertones or have it affect their identity or mentality. It just means it's an enabler, what he said. There is no need for such defensiveness, no one is attacking you if you like superhero movies. Captain America literally rebelled against the US government in the movie Captain America Civil War for their imperialism. The dude who posted this is just posting crap based on the title of the movie not the plot. "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -Martin Luther King Jr. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peroxide555 587 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 hours ago, littlepotter said: You seem to think we're canceling Chris Evans or something, or saying he is personally responsible for the imperialist undertones in superhero movies... which is very much not the case it's just very ironic how he talked about things "enabling" this violence, when "Captain America" whom he plays is a perfect example of something that enables a certain idea. People pointed this out, and everyone who felt uncomfortable by it accused those people of attacking him. I don't even know what break you are asking for... how have you been burdened by someone drawing parallels between superhero movies and imperialist notions? You're taking things to extremes and then projecting it onto this elusive "y'all." No one has blamed superhero movies for terrorists invading the Capitol. It's such a simplistic and black and white way of looking at things, that doesn't exist in the real world. There are nuances everywhere, that contribute in small or big ways to something. This is what Chris is talking about, that many things "enable" certain actions. The obvious imperialistic undertones in superhero movies - especially ones named "Captain America" - have to play into the identity of a white supremacist. It doesn't mean it "caused" it, it doesn't mean everyone who watches is going to catch those undertones or have it affect their identity or mentality. It just means it's an enabler, what he said. There is no need for such defensiveness, no one is attacking you if you like superhero movies. Again... the 'break' is in reference to the fact this all feels very inconsequential and silly given the timing. The list of people we should be holding accountable for this assault on democracy do not include actors in Marvel movies... I'm not saying your point doesn't have merit - I actually think it does! However... the Twitter mob are (once again) directing their energy and aggression onto the wrong f*cking target. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peroxide555 587 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, GagaSine said: I am literally a comic book artist as a hobby and hopefully one day as a career. There are plenty of incredible comics that tell mature, nuanced stories and are great prices of art. Mainstream superhero comics are not that (and I am not saying they have no value, but there is clearly a difference between something like Persepolis or Maus and captain marvel issue #117 or whatever, even the working conditions of the artists and writers are completely different. One is pumping out a product as efficiently as possible to get as many people to buy it, the other’s intention is to share their story and art). Superhero comics are a legitimate form of art... you can't really call them silly and juvenile if you've never taken the time to read them. There is a reason why these stories and characters have stood the test of time... Idk... it just comes off as incredibly condensing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusKeepBreathin 19,311 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 9 hours ago, GagaSine said: There is a long history between the military and comics, during World War II there were literally comics of superheros beating up Nazis & Japanese soldiers. Comics have always been a form of advertising/propaganda for the military so it makes sense it would continue into the movies https://www.insideover.com/politics/captain-marvel-the-latest-propaganda-collaboration-between-the-military-and-the-mcu.html Well duh.... Superman's tagline was fighting for truth justice and the American way. But we are far from the 1940's and we are not in the middle of a world war. "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -Martin Luther King Jr. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley 9,369 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Oh of course he met with Dan Crenshaw not surprised though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaSine 7,464 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, Peroxide555 said: Superhero comics are a legitimate form of art... you can't really call them silly and juvenile if you've never taken the time to read them. There is a reason why these stories and characters have stood the test of time... Idk... it just comes off as incredibly condensing. I literally have read hundreds of superhero comics, I was poor and would literally go to book stores and libraries just to read comics for hours. You can’t deny it’s corporate art. To me that has less value. If people enjoy them that’s great, but you can’t deny that is not that same as a comic someone made themselves or one that is not part of a multimillion dollar brand. It’s not condescending to acknowledge the difference. look into how artists, inkers, colourists and writers are paid and treated by big companies like Marvel and DC. It’s a completely different world to how niche or at least less mainstream comics are made. It’s like getting a burger from a fast food restaurant verses one made by a cook who has been honing their skills for a decade. The fast food burger can still be enjoyable and for some people even preferable, but the one made by someone passionate for the craft is clearly not going to the same, it’s probably going to have more substance (or it can even be downright terrible, and that risk is why some people prefer to stick to the fast food burger). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToxicHot 6,444 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 The stupidity of people is actually astounding. Wow. dOnT sAd ReAcT mE 2 bE sHaDy i WiLL RePoRt U!!1! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peroxide555 587 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, GagaSine said: I literally have read hundreds of superhero comics, I was poor and would literally go to book stores and libraries just to read comics for hours. You can’t deny it’s corporate art. To me that has less value. If people enjoy them that’s great, but you can’t deny that is not that same as a comic someone made themselves or one that is not part of a multimillion dollar brand. It’s not condescending to acknowledge the difference. look into how artists, inkers, colourists and writers are paid and treated by big companies like Marvel and DC. It’s a completely different world to how niche or at least less mainstream comics are made. It’s like getting a burger from a fast food restaurant verses one made by a cook who has been honing their skills for a decade. The fast food burger can still be enjoyable and for some people even preferable, but the one made by someone passionate for the craft is clearly not going to the same, it’s probably going to have more substance (or it can even be downright terrible, and that risk is why some people prefer to stick to the fast food burger). Just because something is commercial doesn't mean it can't be without artistic merit... it's the same for literally any form of media - tv, film, literature etc... Mainstream art does not directly translate as low brow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaSine 7,464 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Peroxide555 said: Just because something is commercial doesn't mean it can't be without artistic merit... it's the same for literally any form of media - tv, film, literature etc... Mainstream art does not directly translate as low brow. Where did I say that? I just said it is not the same and stuff that is less mainstream tends to have more substance (because they are not as beholden to investors or whatever and allowed to take more risks) like who f*ckin cares, I still have plenty of beautiful Batman comics in my collection but in my personal opinion (which i hope it’s okay with you that i have), it still does not compare to comics I have read from other artists. i have said again and again there is nothing wrong with mainstream art or consuming it, why are you needling at me about something literally millions of people obviously like and spend money on as evidenced by the immense success of DC and Marvel properties and the immense hegemony they have created. I’m sorry I have different taste than you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peroxide555 587 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, GagaSine said: Where did I say that? I just said it is not the same and stuff that is less mainstream tends to have more substance (because they are not as beholden to investors or whatever and allowed to take more risks) like who f*ckin cares, I still have plenty of beautiful Batman comics in my collection but in my personal opinion (which i hope it’s okay with you that i have), it still does not compare to comics I have read from other artists. i have said again and again there is nothing wrong with mainstream art or consuming it, why are you needling at me about something literally millions of people obviously like and spend money on as evidenced by the immense success of DC and Marvel properties and the immense hegemony they have created. I’m sorry I have different taste than you. Ermagawd - you're a butthurt DC fan, now it all makes sense On a serious note: It honestly, does NOT matter... I'm just trying to reiterate (that in my opinion) neither one is superior to the other, if you disagree, then by all means do so... it's a free country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaSine 7,464 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, Peroxide555 said: Ermagawd - you're a butthurt DC fan, now it all makes sense On a serious note: It honestly, does NOT matter... I'm just trying to reiterate (that in my opinion) neither one is superior to the other, if you disagree, then by all means do so... it's a free country. Lmao what? Because I used to read Batman comics? I literally stopped caring about superheroes when I was 15 and you’re trying to turn this into some school yard turf war. And i’m reiterating I disagree because I personally value creativity, originality and not corporate products in general. You said I was demeaning comics & saying that they’re not art, and I explained I actually loved comics and think they’re art, just not so much superhero comics, and then you had a problem with that. I just don’t understand what you’re trying to achieve other than “gotcha”ing me over the print equivalent of a Big Mac. Are you employed by Marvel or something lmao. Enjoy and consume whatever the eff you want! But there’s nothing wrong with some critical thinking, analysis, and stepping outside your box sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peroxide555 587 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Just now, GagaSine said: Lmao what? Because I used to read Batman comics? I literally stopped caring about superheroes when I was 15 and you’re trying to turn this into some school yard turf war. And i’m reiterating I disagree because I personally value creativity, originality and not corporate products in general. You said I was demeaning comics & saying that they’re not comics, and I explained I actually loved comics and think they’re art, just not so much superhero comics, and then you had a problem with that. I just don’t understand what you’re trying to achieve other than “gotcha”ing me over the print equivalent of a Big Mac. Are you employed by Marvel or something lmao. Enjoy and consume whatever the eff you want! But there’s nothing wrong with some critical thinking, analysis, and stepping outside your box sometimes. Sis... it's was a damn joke Lord. This is just getting silly... I don't really have the strength to argue, this debate has lost all meaning at this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaSine 7,464 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Just now, Peroxide555 said: Sis... it's was a damn joke Lord. This is just getting silly... I don't really have the strength to argue, this debate has lost all meaning at this point. Well comics are really important to me personally so it really felt unfair and hurt my feelings when you were saying I was denigrating comics. I go to the Toronto comic arts festival every single year (sadly it was canceled this year). You continuously misrepresented my viewpoint and I don’t like that, I’m going to defend myself especially when it’s regarding something that is important to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peroxide555 587 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, GagaSine said: Well comics are really important to me personally so it really felt unfair and hurt my feelings when you were saying I was denigrating comics. I go to the Toronto comic arts festival every single year (sadly it was canceled this year). You continuously misrepresented my viewpoint and I don’t like that, I’m going to defend myself especially when it’s regarding something that is important to me. You've just come across as condescending... (perhaps you think the same of me, who knows), even earlier where you demanded I showcased evidence for being a lefty... like, come ON Let's just put this down to bad communication. I don't really want to beat the horse any further. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaSine 7,464 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 20 minutes ago, Peroxide555 said: You've just come across as condescending... (perhaps you think the same of me, who knows), even earlier where you demanded I showcased evidence for being a lefty... like, come ON Let's just put this down to bad communication. I don't really want to beat the horse any further. So anyone who has a different opinion is condescending? And I didn’t demand evidence, I was curious as to what your leftist values were because you stated you were a leftist but your analysis did not remotely showcase any leftist perspective (that I was aware of). I was interested in hearing your perspective. I mean no ill will towards you, I just found your points confusing and you kept moving goalposts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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