Guest Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, Esteban said: We aren't a country ruled by religion, there is no place for any religion in the public space, no place for any fears of any religions, so it's important to remember people that we can mock any religion. It's a secular democratic country, people who want to live strictly by their faith have to find another place. French "moderate" muslims on twitter are more shoked by a stupid drawing than by an atrocious crime and they say this crime is kinda justified, because they live in the fear of their religion and think everybody should be took in their crazy bigotery. A part of muslims in France, mostly the young ones (I'm teacher myself in France) don't even understand what freedom of speech is and they tend to forget what a secular democracy is, it's frightening... Their religious laws pass before the law of the country and it's very problematic... So we have to confirm our position as a free country. Thankfully twitter is not the mirror of the truth, but I was kinda scared when I saw turkish flags everywhere in a normally "quiet" neighborhood after the murder and how students talk about it. So it's a complicted situation really, I hate religion, but most of all I hate hate and sadly I think it will be difficult to avoid what is coming Im a Muslim living in Saudi Arabia and I respect France freedom of speech and understand it. France is not the only secular country, almost all western countries are but they dont act like Macron. I did not say France should respect religion, I said Macron should not promote images mocking Muslims. Specially when the images are not only anti Muslim, its also racist and very problematic. He should allow it and defend people who want to do it, and attack anyone stopping it, but not promote it himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban 2,300 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said: I did not say France should respect religion, I said Macron should not promote images mocking Muslims. He should allow it and defend people who want to do it, and attack anyone stopping it, but not promote it himself. Specially when the images are not only anti Muslim, its also racist and very problematic. The images aren't and blasphemies can't even exist in France because religions aren't feared. It's important to show that we can criticize openly a religion to avoid obscurantism. In France we can criticize a religion in all the way we want but we don't have the right to insult a believer personally. That's a nuance some poeple tend to forget. The images aren't in my taste but they have to survive as a reminder of our seculary, democracy and freedom of speech. Edit: I don't like Macron at all but for once he did right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 17 minutes ago, Esteban said: The images aren't and blasphemies can't exist in France because religions aren't feared. It's important to show that we can criticize openly a religion to avoid obscurantism. In France we can criticize a religion in all the way we want but we don't have the right to insult a believer personally. That's a nuance some poeple tend to forget. The images aren't in my taste but they have to survive as a reminder of our seculary, democracy and freedom of speech. Edit: I don't like Macron at all but for once he did right Yes which is why I support Macron's support of freedom to draw Islam, but I dont think its responsible for the president to use these drawings personally and in the government. Im still on ur side though, and I understand where you are coming from specially that im secular Muslim. France has a history of revolution against the church, so these issues are extremely important to them and myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban 2,300 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said: Yes which is why I support the images being used, and I support Macron supporting the rights of drawing Islam. But I dont think its responsible for the president to use these drawings personally. Im still on ur side though, and I understand where you are coming from. France has a history of revolution against the church, so these issues are extremely important to them. Yes you're right about France spirit. To be honest this situation is just frightening, France have already surpass its middle age, we are not suppose to go through another one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Esteban said: Yes you're right about France spirit. To be honest this situation is just frightening, France have already surpass it's middle age, we are not suppose to go through another one. I showed respect for your country over my religion, and you reply with a cartoon disrespecting religious people like me? typical french Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban 2,300 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said: I showed respect for your country over my religion, and you reply with a cartoon disrespecting religious people like me? typical french It's not a disrepect toward your religion, I choose one with a christian bishop. But if it was insensitive I'm truly sorry, it was a way to illustrate what is the position of France towards religion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Esteban said: It's not a disrepect toward your religion, I choose ones with a christian bishop. But if it was insensitive I'm sorry, it was a way to illustrate what is the position of France towards religion. Im fine with you mocking me and my religion, but I thought it was a bad time while I was trying to show respect to your country and values over my religion. But yeah I get what you were trying to say now.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wet Fire 8,360 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 A bunch of despicable people from all religions are using religious sentiments to destroy peace and harm other innocent people across all religions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban 2,300 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said: I did not see the drawings as mocking Islam, I saw it as generally mocking people who believe in religion. You can mock me and my religion, but I thought we were having a respectful argument trying to respect each other even when we come from different places. But yeah I get what you were trying to say now.. Once again I'm really sorry, I should think twice.. There is a mismatch between religions and I think we have to solve it. You know christianism is used in pop culture, mocked in movies since a long time.. and maybe we think every religious is used to that and it leads to this kind of insensibility Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Esteban said: Once again I'm really sorry, I should think twice.. There is a mismatch between religions and I think we have to solve it. You know christianism is used in pop culture, mocked in movies since a long time.. and maybe we think every religious is used to that and it leads to this kind of insensibility No problem at all I understand Sorry about saying typical french Im actually a Libertarian Secular Muslim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contessa 1,879 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 I’m surprised this thread lasted longer than the Trump thread with some of these replies. The Xenophobia in here is pungent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban 2,300 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said: No problem at all I understand Sorry about saying typical french Im actually a Libertarian Secular Muslim It was typical french I hope everything will find a peaceful outcome and a form of appeasement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban 2,300 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 25 minutes ago, Contessa said: I’m surprised this thread lasted longer than the Trump thread with some of these replies. The Xenophobia in here is pungent. Sorry maybe I misinterpret but did you call me xenophobic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contessa 1,879 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Esteban said: Sorry maybe I misinterpret but did you call me xenophobic? If you made a xenophobic remark on a post in this thread yes if not then no. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban 2,300 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, Contessa said: If you made a xenophobic remark on a post in this thread yes if not then no. Because you wrote that the thread lasted with "these replies", I assumed I was the one who keep the thread active so I thought you were refering to me. Sorry for the accusative tone so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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