Two beheaded in Nice, France mass stabbing suspected terror attack

[lego 44,165]

Just now, Admin said:

I was commenting on the absurdity of someone living in the United States telling someone living in Turkey that their views on Islam are invalid.

This is very "men having an opinion on abortion" to me.

 

 

Umm not really because there are Western Muslims and there are close friends of Western Muslims who have witnessed islamophobia and are familiar with the rhetoric. Unless you’re saying Western Muslims are not real Muslims and don’t practice “real Islam”.

Anyone anywhere could contribute to that rhetoric. Atheists and non-muslims in muslim majority countries could also have islamophobic rhetoric, I understand many of them, but when some say things like 1,8 billion is responsible and should do something about extremists?! like wtf y’all expect ordinary muslims to do?? those same muslims who are often victims?! and idk anyone who would support nor justify these killings. I would support death penalty for these radicals. But I won’t apologize for THEIR actions. I’m not responsible. 

 

[lego 44,165]

7 minutes ago, Chic said:

Good Islamic people are good in spite of Islam/regardless of it, not because of it.

 

I have to disagree, I’ve met so many unbelievably generous and good people and religion was one of the main factors, it’s in their daily life and actions.

[Chic 20,830]

Just now, lego said:

 

I have to disagree, I’ve met so many unbelievably generous and good people and religion was one of the main factors, it’s in their daily life and actions.

Don’t you think it’s a disservice to those people to think they would pretty much only be good because of religion? I absolutely see what you’re saying and religion CAN help, but I just think there are better ways to promote a moral code without also uplifting ideologies that have caused such pain to others.

[lego 44,165]

1 minute ago, Chic said:

Don’t you think it’s a disservice to those people to think they would pretty much only be good because of religion? I absolutely see what you’re saying and religion CAN help, but I just think there are better ways to promote a moral code without also uplifting ideologies that have caused such pain to others.

 

but these people would never harm anyone. they don’t support extremism in any way. I never said they’d be good only because of religion, I’m saying it’s visible how much it influences them positively. 

[Jester 6,388]

I can't even imagine what's happening in those young heads. 

So you're a young muslim who grew up in France. And you have such a tremendous amount of hate in your heart, that you're capable of first planning a murder, going to a church, choosing a random innocent human, looking in their eyes and slowly cutting through their throat with a kitchen knife?

 

[Jester 6,388]

4 hours ago, KanyeWest said:

To me, as much as the attacks are so terrifying, what's even more terrifying are what I thought to be "moderate muslims" both in France (born in France and not) and living outside of France, excusing it and giving arguments as to why the attack happened, why the people had it coming, why drawing caricatures is "playing with fire", why closing illegal islamic schools is "islamophobic" and why doing anything at all to help contain this issue is "racist".  When I say this of course it's an overall group, there are always different opinions in a community but this one that I saw the most in general. 

To me the fact that we have bad apples inside the country and outside who excuse beheading in any shape or form, including those who call themselves "normal muslims" is scary. That means asking the muslim community in France for help is useless, we have no one to turn to to solve this problem. And of course it starts at the top but also the bottom.

I've seen so far, and I might be wrong, but only one Imam in France who cried in public about this behavior, who cried and said people need to wake up and condemn these things. But nothign seems to follow... So what are we gonna do now

It's going outside and seeing turkish flags hanging over windows in appartments which I saw yesterday... So who are gonna turn to? Seems like no one loves France 

I think people don't pay enough attention to this when talking about 1B+ of peaceful muslims in the world.

[palma 8,909]

22 minutes ago, Chic said:

Good Islamic people are good in spite of Islam/regardless of it, not because of it.

The worst part is, I can’t remember how many practicing Muslims say that if a person doesn’t believe in Allah, they can/may/will do anything horrible. To me it sounds a bit like the fear of Allah is the only thing stopping some people... Tells a lot about the lack of ethics education  Even the man in charge of Religious Affairs in Turkey said days ago that we should be scared of Atheists as they have no fear of Hell, thus will commit crimes without thinking about it.

The response of Muslims to Islamophobia has consistently been ridiculing other religions or irreligion and/or calling countries out for their barbaric pasts. It does nothing to further the conversation when you call a German Nazi when you hear them being Islamophobic. If I were a Muslim, I’d think that Islam has some horrible marketing and would try to change it. It’s a shame rich Muslim countries are spending billions of dollars renting collections from Louvre and working Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Yemeni people to death in construction of vain monuments to their money. 

I loathe concept of Protestant ethics and the last thing I would do on this matter would be to build an argument on a racial basis however, all Muslim majority countries are long overdue for a self-critique and I can see it dawning on us after some very hard times to come, paralleling the struggles of Christian West from the Reformation to WW2. 

It’s also historiographically very interesting how the situation became untenable approximately 1.5 millenia after the inception of Islam. Kind of mirroring 15th 16th century Christianity. 

Anyways guys I’m sorry for bombarding this thread with long essays. It’s just I don’t have many people to talk these issues through now that the universites are closed in my country. Thank you to people that felt sympathetic with me on my previous post. 

[Admin 24,441]

15 minutes ago, lego said:

Umm not really because there are Western Muslims and there are close friends of Western Muslims who have witnessed islamophobia and are familiar with the rhetoric. Unless you’re saying Western Muslims are not real Muslims and don’t practice “real Islam”.

They are not "not real" but they are not the same either. Living in Manhattan and having a "Western Muslim" friend is not the same as living in Turkey or Lebanon.

[Admin 24,441]

"There are 1.8 BILLION Muslims in the world!!!"

Then why don't you listen to the people who live among those 1.8 billion?

[palma 8,909]

2 minutes ago, Admin said:

They are not "not real" but they are not the same either. Living in Manhattan and having a "Western Muslim" friend is not the same as living in Turkey or Lebanon.

Even in Turkey, living in Istanbul or other major cities is a dramatically different experience than living in a peripheral, rural, conservative town. I must add within cosmopolitan areas, à la Manhattan, it’s nice that there’s Muslim people around as it is nevertheless a different culture. When you’re the one different person in a room of hundred people, the 99 not only doesn’t believe in you, but sometimes they don’t want you there 

[andreas85 400]

If western countries actually want to do something about terrorism then they should stop supporting it. Western countries need to stop selling weapons to those Islamic countries that openly support terrorism like Saudi Arabia. They also need to stop invading and bombing muslim countries because that is one of the most obvious reasons why islamic terrorism exist.

[lego 44,165]

7 minutes ago, Admin said:

They are not "not real" but they are not the same either. Living in Manhattan and having a "Western Muslim" friend is not the same as living in Turkey or Lebanon.

 

Wait, Muslims living in Western countries and Muslims living in muslim-majority countries are not the same in what way? elaborate. 

Who suffers from generalizations like that? Why didn’t you reply to the rest of the post?

 

7 minutes ago, Admin said:

"There are 1.8 BILLION Muslims in the world!!!"

Then why don't you listen to the people who live among those 1.8 billion?

 

so you hold all of them responsible? 

[Admin 24,441]

3 minutes ago, lego said:

 

Wait, Muslims living in Western countries and Muslims living in muslim-majority countries are not the same in what way? elaborate. 

Who suffers from generalizations like that? Why didn’t you reply to the rest of the post?

 

 

so you hold all of them responsible? 

I’m sorry, but I’m not responding to you anymore because I highkey feel like you’re just trolling. And if you genuinely don’t understand how someone who has met 3 Muslim people at a bar in Manhattan would have a different experience with Islam than someone living in freaking Lebanon—I can’t help you.

[GregJA 5,531]

Many years ago someone beheaded someone here on a bus.

‘most disturbing scary thing, and to think anyone even thinks of this is sick.

[lego 44,165]

39 minutes ago, Admin said:

I’m sorry, but I’m not responding to you anymore because I highkey feel like you’re just trolling. And if you genuinely don’t understand how someone who has met 3 Muslim people at a bar in Manhattan would have a different experience with Islam than someone living in freaking Lebanon—I can’t help you.

 

excuse me, how is that trolling?  Islamophobia affects Western Muslims, you get that don’t you?

Minorities living in muslim majority countries have their views and opinions and they’re valid, until and unless they try to put blame on whole world population of Muslims, on ordinary families who have nothing to do with this. That’s where it goes to islamophobic rhetoric. 

You refuse to answer if you blame 1,8 billion, so lowkey I feel like you do and that’s sad.

 

@MJHolland

just recognized that rhetoric, whether he’s a western muslim or knows other western muslims and is very familiar with islamophobia. That’s all.