Protest against restrictions in Zagreb, Croatia

[Lemonky 671]

13 minutes ago, LGMonster95 said:

You don't even need evidence to know that a mask can block some of the water particles from ur mouth to reach the other person, the masks might not be 100% efficient but It still does the job, you don't need evidence for that but a brain, also same thing for distancing and washing ur hands. Since you are from Romania, I think you might have heard the situation from Arges county from 1 month ago being the hardest hitting county, well now we went from 127 cases/day to almost 20 (and that's mostly because of the rules and the people getting more involved on it) even if the country itself is still rising in cases

You are acting like people against oppression negate corona danger. It reminds me of abortion - although I think it is not okay and I would never do it, it does not mean other people should not be able to do it. Also, there are P100 masks that protect you from virus 100%, just wear those and leave other people alone

[Bt1 5,213]

15 minutes ago, LGMonster95 said:

You don't even need evidence to know that a mask can block some of the water particles from ur mouth to reach the other person, the masks might not be 100% efficient but It still does the job, you don't need evidence for that but a brain, also same thing for distancing and washing ur hands. Since you are from Romania, I think you might have heard the situation from Arges county from 1 month ago being the hardest hitting county, well now we went from 127 cases/day to almost 20 (and that's mostly because of the rules and the people getting more involved on it) even if the country itself is still rising in cases

What you say it doesnt even matter if the virus is transmitted in other ways. 

And how did u checked that people in your area respected the rules and that people in other areas didnt? Because last time I checked the rules are universal. They work in some places and dont work in others? It doesnt work that way. It's one or the other. 

So, as I've said, there is actually little evidence that "the rules work". It is ok if u believe they work. It is ok if the cost of those rules doesnt impact you. Some people are different and that doesnt make you right and they wrong or the other way around. 

[LGMonster95 13,704]

9 minutes ago, Florin said:

What you say it doesnt even matter if the virus is transmitted in other ways. 

And how did u checked that people in your area respected the rules and that people in other areas didnt? Because last time I checked the rules are universal. They work in some places and dont work in others? It doesnt work that way. It's one or the other. 

So, as I've said, there is actually little evidence that "the rules work". It is ok if u believe they work. It is ok if the costs of those rules doesnt impact you. Some people are different and that doesnt make you right and they wrong or the other way around. 

I saw in my city alone that when people relaxed, there were a lot more cases (I've heard a lot of ambulances in my area during these moments) but when the rules became more strict, it just wasn't the same case. It's pure stupidity to refuse some rules that are not even that hard to do (even if you are not that documented to say, do it just in case if this whole thing is above you and u dont understant) instead of taking a huge risk and infecting others that might even die. "virus is transmitted in other ways" also this is just ur speculations, not a fact, we already heard a lot of informations about it and I think we should listen to others who knows more about viruses then us speculating about it

[LGMonster95 13,704]

10 minutes ago, Lemonky said:

You are acting like people against oppression negate corona danger. It reminds me of abortion - although I think it is not okay and I would never do it, it does not mean other people should not be able to do it. Also, there are P100 masks that protect you from virus 100%, just wear those and leave other people alone

"Leave other people alone" do you even realize that not everyone can buy those kind of masks? How about actually being careful and protecting others instead of waking up with more people in their coffins? Freedom is freedom unless you are in a situation that could put other people in danger and this is one of them.

[Lemonky 671]

4 minutes ago, LGMonster95 said:

"Leave other people alone" do you even realize that not everyone can buy those kind of masks? 

They are available on Amazon

And I am tired of this conversation lmao obviously our values are different

[LGMonster95 13,704]

1 minute ago, Lemonky said:

They are available on Amazon

And I am tired of this conversation lmao obviously our values are different

Tell that to the people from my country in the villages for example that they are "available on Amazon" they'll be like "Ama-what is that, another desease?" lmao. What I'm trying to say is that we should be a lot more careful with each other during those times, and yes I'm tired aswell with this lol

[Bt1 5,213]

7 minutes ago, LGMonster95 said:

I saw in my city alone that when people relaxed, there were a lot more cases (I've heard a lot of ambulances in my area during these moments) but when the rules became more strict, it just wasn't the same case. It's pure stupidity to refuse some rules that are not even that hard to do (even if you are not that documented to say, do it just in case if this whole thing is above you and u dont understant) instead of taking a huge risk and infecting others that might even die. "virus is transmitted in other ways" also this is just ur speculations, not a fact, we already heard a lot of informations about it and I think we should listen to others who knows more about viruses then us speculating about it

So again you dont have any evidence, just some ambulances that u saw. U also ignore that the rules are mandatory and universal and make some bad assumptions about other people / regions / countries who follow the same or stricter rules. The fact that the rules dont have the same effect like in your region is because people are bad and dont respect the rules from your point of view, even if they are mandatory.  It doesnt make any sense to me, but I'm happy it this works for you.

"Virus is transmitted in other ways" is speculation again just for the other person, not for you and yet u were the one who failed to show any evidence that the virus is transmitted in a way or another. 

So again, a lot of beliefs from your part and zero evidence, which it is ok. I think I said it three times. It is ok that u dont need evidence and that the cost of the measures doesnt affect you. But not all the people are like you. And those people arent wrong because they dont believe the way you believe. 

So I guess until science has more answers for us, let's end this discussion here. Have a great night.

[LGMonster95 13,704]

1 minute ago, Florin said:

So again you dont have any evidence, just some ambulances that u saw. U also ignore that the rules are mandatory and universal and make some bad assumptions about other people / regions / countries who follow the same or stricter rules. The fact that the rules dont have the same effect like in your region is because people are bad and dont respect the rules from your point of view, even if they are mandatory.  It doesnt make any sense to me, but I'm happy it this works for you.

"Virus is transmitted in other ways" is speculation again just for the other person, not for you and yet u were the one who failed to show any evidence that the virus is transmitted in a way or another. 

So again, a lot of beliefs from your part and zero evidence, which it is ok. I think I said it three times. It is ok that u dont need evidence and that the cost of the measures doesnt affect you. But not all the people are like you. And those people arent wrong because they dont believe the way you believe. 

So I guess until science has more answers for us, let's end this discussion here. Have a great night.

There's a lot of evidence and informations out there already, I don't need to waste my time on here to explain you why we should respect the rules, why we should protect other people and so on. I also know some people who's working in hospitals and they have said that the masks really helped them so I'll rather take their advice instead of acting like I know better. Have a great night aswell

[Regina George 59,387]

5 hours ago, Florin said:

Wow. Too much on this topic is on "I believe" territory. 

People make so many general statements like "the rules work", but fail to show any evidence for that.

And the fact that there is one stupid sign in the protest that says stupid things it doesnt mean that the other people arent right.  

What exactly is “I believe” territory? Wearing a mask, staying outside of bigger crowds, closing indoor restaurants is actually stopping virus from spreading as fast. There’s nothing to believe in or not to believe in. Those are basic facts. People standing there without masks in a crowd of thousands of people protesting those measures that stop virus from spreading rapidly directly means that they are wrong. 

[Bt1 5,213]

7 hours ago, Regina George said:

What exactly is “I believe” territory? Wearing a mask, staying outside of bigger crowds, closing indoor restaurants is actually stopping virus from spreading as fast. There’s nothing to believe in or not to believe in. Those are basic facts. People standing there without masks in a crowd of thousands of people protesting those measures that stop virus from spreading rapidly directly means that they are wrong. 

Take all the rules and show us the evidence that they work. Start with your "facts". 

Notice how there are rules for "indoor dining", but not all "indoor" activities are prohibited. It surely makes so much sense. 

Crowds are a big problem when people are protesting, but the other daily crowds are ok. It makes again so much sense. 

But u give us the evidence for your "facts".

Btw, just googled the rules in Croatia and all "the rules work"/"respect the rules" comments in this topic are stupid, as in Croatia the masks arent even mandatory. 

 

 

[Regina George 59,387]

3 hours ago, Florin said:

Take all the rules and show us the evidence that they work. Start with your "facts". 

Notice how there are rules for "indoor dining", but not all "indoor" activities are prohibited. It surely makes so much sense. 

Crowds are a big problem when people are protesting, but the other daily crowds are ok. It makes again so much sense. 

But u give us the evidence for your "facts".

Btw, just googled the rules in Croatia and all "the rules work"/"respect the rules" comments in this topic are stupid, as in Croatia the masks arent even mandatory. 

 

 

It does. Wearing a mask is proven to work as protection - facts. Eating/dinking indoor could spread virus rapidly considering people can’t wear a mask while drinking/eating - facts. Being in big crowds while not wearing a mask makes the risk of contracting a virus so much higher - facts, being indoors (even when wearing a mask) makes the change of contracting a virus much higher - facts, taking public transportation while not wearing a mask and while having 100 people in one tram makes the risk of contracting a virus much higher - facts, and MANY OTHER. All of those are proven facts and restrictions do work. All you have to do to understand this is have basic logic. 

[Bt1 5,213]

1 hour ago, Regina George said:

It does. Wearing a mask is proven to work as protection - facts. Eating/dinking indoor could spread virus rapidly considering people can’t wear a mask while drinking/eating - facts. Being in big crowds while not wearing a mask makes the risk of contracting a virus so much higher - facts, being indoors (even when wearing a mask) makes the change of contracting a virus much higher - facts, taking public transportation while not wearing a mask and while having 100 people in one tram makes the risk of contracting a virus much higher - facts, and MANY OTHER. All of those are proven facts and restrictions do work. All you have to do to understand this is have basic logic. 

"Facts" because "Ive said so". Ok. Still zero evidence from you for the people who are interested in scientific evidence. 

[Giorno Giovanna 3,178]

1 hour ago, Florin said:

"Facts" because "Ive said so". Ok. Still zero evidence from you for the people who are interested in scientific evidence. 

https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

a general paper about masks and its efficiency

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I recommend to look for deaths/1M population-people, you can see that countries like, for example, Japan has 11 deaths per 1M (and they have a big cultural thing about wearing masks to protect others) While other countries that are still at a point where they argue if covid even exists () and thus reject wearing masks, like USA 582 and UK 611 deaths per 1M population.

 

There is a reason I choose to look for death per 1M population.

First: Because not every country does the same percentage of tests per population. So death by covid is more definite. You could argue that different countries have different standards in hospitals and better medicine to keep someone with covid alive....BUT that's exactly why I chose Japan, UK and USA as they have similar high quality standards. With the big difference that Japanese people wear the mask by default, while others still argue if covid even exists.

Second: It makes sense to calculate and adjust the numbers to 1M population to better compare them.

Third: With similar standards in hospitals the death rate is usually 1%, with bad standards it's higher.

So it makes sense to look for death/1M pop in first world countries with high medicinal standards in hospitals (UK, USA, Japan, S.Korea), as the only different variable is [wears mask] or [doesn't wear mask]

 

TO SUMMARIZE:

South Korea 7 deaths per 1M population   (wears mask)

Japan 11 deaths per 1M population   (wears mask)

USA 582 deaths per 1M population   (doesn't want to wear mask)

UK 611 deaths per 1M population    (doesn't want to wear mask)

[Lemonky 671]

Listen to science, not media. There isn't enough evidence that masks could make difference, although it is possible : https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

[Bt1 5,213]

41 minutes ago, Giorno Giovanna said:

https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

a general paper about masks and its efficiency

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I recommend to look for deaths/1M population-people, you can see that countries like, for example, Japan has 11 deaths per 1M (and they have a big cultural thing about wearing masks to protect others) While other countries that are still at a point where they argue if covid even exists () and thus reject wearing masks, like USA 582 and UK 611 deaths per 1M population.

 

There is a reason I choose to look for death per 1M population.

First: Because not every country does the same percentage of tests per population. So death by covid is more definite. You could argue that different countries have different standards in hospitals and better medicine to keep someone with covid alive....BUT that's exactly why I chose Japan, UK and USA as they have similar high quality standards. With the big difference that Japanese people wear the mask by default, while others still argue if covid even exists.

Second: It makes sense to calculate and adjust the numbers to 1M population to better compare them.

Your article is old ( april 10), it isnt actually a study. One of the things is says is "there arent any randomized controlled trials on the efficiency of use of masks". Considering this is from april 10, let's say that it is a major red flag that not a single study has appeared on the subject. At least I dont know about it.

I accept that deaths per capita is usually the best way to look at how good or bad a country did with covid, even if there isnt a universal way to count deaths. Every country does it in different ways. 

However, u cant pick and choose countries like that. Why dont u compare Japan with New Zealand or Thailand? What should I say? Japan did worst because of the reason you said it did better than UK? We all can make assumptions like that. It doesnt mean anything.

Oh, btw. Isnt Japan mostly opened and never had "the rules" we see in US and Europe?