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opinion

LotR movies aged like milk

elijahfan
9 hours ago, Fanta said:

The only issue I had with the films when I rewatched them was the lack of female characters, mainly because I adored Arwen and I love me a good strong female character. However, I guess it couldn’t be helped based on the books.

And believe me, Peter Jackson was aware of that and fought for Arwen to be a bigger character than she was in the books. Actually, he struggled a lot to include her in The Two Towers, and even planned to make her fight at Helm’s Deep at some point. He ended up settling on the idea of visions and memories from Aragorn. I’m basically trying to say that it could have been worse if they had stuck to the books and they very much tried to fix the issue...

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DeanWinchester
21 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Eowen was amazing and I do alternate between Galadriel and Arwen as my faves (mainly because fo Cate Blanchett's impeccable depiction of Galadriel and the Nazgul chase scene with Arwen), however I just wish it wasn't only these three female characters in the films/books.

Also, not sure if you knew but if you didn't: Arwen was filmed participating in the battle of Helm's Deep. They cut out her scene later on because allegedly parts of it leaked and there was a huge backlash for her incorporation of it in the films. I believe she was nowhere in the mix in the books. Would've been epic to see, hopefully they release it in a later edition of the film along with many other deleted scenes like Arwen's interaction with Galadriel.

Yeah she wasn't as active a character in the books as she was in the movie. I can understand and appreciate the departure Jackson did. However, I agree with the decision to cut her role in Helm's Deep. It was already too much alteration for her character AND the battle of Helm's Deep itself (no elves arrived at all).

19 minutes ago, Curunir said:

But then I switched like :billie:

DismalRichGrub-size_restricted.gif

I really rooted for your redemption but enjoy not being returned to the West, I guess.

5 minutes ago, elijahfan said:

I was thoroughly excited about the whole Dol Guldur subplot and couldn’t wait to see how it would all culminate in BotFA. Unfortunately, I feel like it was a bit of a letdown... Once again, too many visual throwbacks: it was like the Weathertop all over again, with a dash of dark Galadriel sprinkled with the Sauron silhouette we all know. I wanted it to be more unique, and thought it was actually introduced well in the first 2 films. I wish we could have seen Sauron’s real form. But they sticked to what was visually established in LotR...

How would you have done it? Genuinely curious as that moment in the books was always open to interpretation.

Flyin' like a 1000 Doves

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GagaSine
11 minutes ago, elijahfan said:

I was thoroughly excited about the whole Dol Guldur subplot and couldn’t wait to see how it would all culminate in BotFA. Unfortunately, I feel like it was a bit of a letdown... Once again, too many visual throwbacks: it was like the Weathertop all over again, with a dash of dark Galadriel sprinkled with the Sauron silhouette we all know. I wanted it to be more unique, and thought it was actually introduced well in the first 2 films. I wish we could have seen Sauron’s real form. But they sticked to what was visually established in LotR...

Yess I thought that part was cool too because The Hobbit was my bedtime story and I was always soooo curious as a child where Gandalf went when he separated from the main group! So while I was excited to see that portrayed it definitely was a bit bland and disappointing.

Jeez all this talk really makes me want to rewatch LOTR :heart:

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Curunir
10 minutes ago, DeanWinchester said:

I really rooted for your redemption but enjoy not being returned to the West, I guess.

Don't mind me, I'll just be chilling with daddy Annatar in limbo :bear:

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DeanWinchester

@elijahfan To elaborate to the discussion. Stylistically, I think the Battle of Dol Guldur will always have similarities. Magic in LotR afterall isn't as "flashy" as say Harry Potter. Rituals of the Istari seem to take longer and it might not have translated well into film if Saruman started chanting for several minutes before anything significant happens. If anything, I'd probably have added more fire or lightning but nothing too different. I don't expect Elrond to do a lot of magic as well so the sword fit rather well. Like Glorfindel, I think his power over the ringwraiths would have been more subtle (as Glorfindel was drawing from his power from having been to the undying lands).

Edited by DeanWinchester
Flyin' like a 1000 Doves
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gagzus

This thread reminds me I haven’t seen them in over a decade lemme go revisit it just to see a woman be the one to kill the witch king again ahh yes some delicious food girls 

2012ga is my aesthetic
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elijahfan
17 minutes ago, DeanWinchester said:

How would you have done it? Genuinely curious as that moment in the books was always open to interpretation.

Well, I think it would have been cool to see the Necromancer trying to deceive them with a beautiful physical form. Jackson had toyed with this idea back in the days and actually shot a scene in Return of the King where Sauron presented himself as a beautiful Elf-like being trying to seduce Aragorn at the final battle in front of the Gates of Mordor, only to reveal his real form in black armor and battle one on one with Aragorn. Jackson ultimately scrapped the idea in post and put a CGI troll on top of Sauron - that’s why Aragorn is fighting a troll in the final movie. Also, the moment when he’s intensely looking at the fire eye, right before saying « For Frodo », was supposed to be him being tempted by the deceiving Sauron form (Jackson wanted Kate Winslet to portray it).

Sooo, back to The Hobbit... I think the Battle of Dol Guldur would’ve been a good moment for Jackson to revisit this idea, and portray Sauron in a surprising and unique way. I also felt like the Nazguls looked too CGI-ey, which didn’t really help.

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DeanWinchester
13 minutes ago, elijahfan said:

actually shot a scene in Return of the King where Sauron presented himself as a beautiful Elf-like being trying to seduce Aragorn at the final battle in front of the Gates of Mordor

Ah yes, I would have loved to have seen that fully realized.

Return-of-Sauron-Return-of-the-King1.jpg

However, if Sauron went this route,  I think it would have done little as there were already rumors of a dark power in Dol Guldur. If the White Council saw a radiant and beautiful being, it would only raise suspicions even more. Having Sauron take the deceiver form is possible but you would have to re-work the foundations in the first 2 movies (or just condense it to 2 movies at most) and the investigation of Radagast, who was already detecting powerful hints of dark power related to the Nazgul. And at the time, I think all the major powers for the good knew each other, so there might not have been a candidate for them to properly consider a previously unknown ally? Even Tom Bombadil was known to the council.

Perhaps if @Curunir was the one who investigated the area, as we all know how he switches later, then it might work.

Edited by DeanWinchester
Flyin' like a 1000 Doves
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elijahfan
4 minutes ago, DeanWinchester said:

Ah yes, I would have loved to have seen that fully realized.

Return-of-Sauron-Return-of-the-King1.jpg

However, if Sauron went this route,  I think it would have done little as there were already rumors of a dark power in Dol Guldur. If the White Council saw a radiant and beautiful being, it would only raise suspicions even more. Having Sauron take the deceiver form is possible but you would have to re-work the foundations in the first 2 movies (or just condense it to 2 movies at most) and the investigation of Radagast, who was already detecting powerful hints of dark power related to the Nazgul. And at the time, I think all the major powers for the good knew each other, so there might not have been a candidate for them to properly consider a previously unknown ally? Even Tom Bombadil was known to the council.

Perhaps if @Curunir was the one who investigated the area, as we all know how he switches later, then it might work.

You’re absolutely right, this is just me trying to make it cinematographically different and interesting :laughga: I felt like it didn’t live up to the hype established in the first 2 films. I think this is one of those scenes where CGI got in the way and gave a strong video game feel (I mean, those Nazgul strobing effects were a choice...).

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Fanta
1 hour ago, elijahfan said:

And believe me, Peter Jackson was aware of that and fought for Arwen to be a bigger character than she was in the books. Actually, he struggled a lot to include her in The Two Towers, and even planned to make her fight at Helm’s Deep at some point. He ended up settling on the idea of visions and memories from Aragorn. I’m basically trying to say that it could have been worse if they had stuck to the books and they very much tried to fix the issue...

Yes I recently read about that, you can imagine my disappointment knowing how it was all scrapped but I understand. Hopefully an alternate version is released one day including her battle scenes, along with her deleted scene with her grandmother Galadriel. 

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gypsy101

i’ve only seen the first one (saw it during quarantine) and enjoyed it but yeah some of visuals are creaky. it was made in a weird time for CG tho tbh

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River

Guts I’m in trending today omg

thank u for believing in me :firega:

I'm not serious 99% of the times ;)

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Da J

I’m VERY biased when it comes to LOTR, but I think any special effects are doomed to age direly (although some more than others). It’s an ever-evolving technical aspect of the movie industry. Besides, it’s not that relevant. You can have good movies nevertheless, such as The Empire Strikes Back.

Now in regard to the slow motion bits, screams and so on, I have the impression their goal is to recreate the books’ atmosphere of legend and mystery.

This comparison might be off, but I have a very similar feeling when reading Norse sagas and LOTR (although they’re radically different in length and content): you keep hearing of tales of great events, battles and powers which are loosely connected and not fully explained - sometimes not explained at all -, but there is still a very simple plot to get you safely through all of this fantastical environment without losing yourself (in the case of LOTR, throwing the ring in the fires of Mount Doom).

Of course that changed with the publishing of The Silmarillion after Tolkien’s death. With it the public gained access to an overarching narrative from the song of creation to the great battle in the end of time, much like a holy bible for Arda (Tolkien’s world). And albeit that’s understandable because of his christian  upbringing and beliefs, which lead to a more systematic and rational treatment of his work, it did dispel a bit of the magic I felt when reading LOTR for the first time.

However, when you consider LOTR as a stand-alone piece of literature (as the author originally intended), it still throws you into a world that is clearly vast and mysterious, but about which you know very little - only enough to follow the thread of events. I personally like this feeling very much, and think the movies did a very good job at evoking it, although some people might perceive that as tacky gimmicks.

Edited by Da J

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JustTea

Idk if people even realize how much they used practical effects in LOTR and how well the minimal CGI is done. Like the whole march of the ents is unbelievably well made and looks better than CGI nowadays. :smh:

Also the music in the films is unmatched.

 

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