Bt1 5,213 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, PartySick said: Besides, "what if I have cancer" is a HUGE "what if" and not even remotely grounds to suspend lockdowns and allow covid to freely infect everyone. We're seeing what happens without a lockdown here in Florida. You dont even realise that "what if" is the reason why we had lockdowns in the first place. For every Florida, there is another state without tough restrictions who is doing ok. When it comes to those undetected cancer patients there isnt any "what if". The oncologists just saw that starting march the cancer diagnoses went down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bt1 5,213 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Defmix100 said: My first thoughts were it was less about self isolation and more about unemployement. Like that statistic in America saying for every 1% unemployment goes up, 40,000 people die (unless that's not true, I'm finding things for and agaisnt that) The study talks mostly about medical restrictions. They simply have data that shows to them that many diseases get undected. Unfortunately, the problems with the economy and mental health is another discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 174,286 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Florin said: You dont even realise that "what if" is the reason why we had lockdowns in the first place. For every Florida, there is another state without tough restrictions who is doing ok. When it comes to those undetected cancer patients there isnt any "what if". The oncologists just saw that starting march the cancer diagnoses went down. So... Lockdown: these people don't get diagnosed because covid related restrictions are in place. For some, it's lethal, yeah. For others, they find out later and fight it. No lockdown: these people get diagnosed and watch as their options slowly dwindle and disappear as covid patients overrun an already strained healthcare system. Again, I've already had loved ones be turned away from hospice care, rehab, and a kidney transplant. Not because doctors aren't currently doing them, it's because they can't. Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bt1 5,213 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 32 minutes ago, PartySick said: So... Lockdown: these people don't get diagnosed because covid related restrictions are in place. For some, it's lethal, yeah. For others, they find out later and fight it. No lockdown: these people get diagnosed and watch as their options slowly dwindle and disappear as covid patients overrun an already strained healthcare system. Again, I've already had loved ones be turned away from hospice care, rehab, and a kidney transplant. Not because doctors aren't currently doing them, it's because they can't. So after 5 months of restrictions, US is in this situation, while countries who didnt have lockdowns were never out of ICU beds and u think that US is in this situation because it didnt have tougher lockdowns? Rehabs, nursing homes, hospice cares are under though restrictions because of the lockdowns u support, not because of the number of covid patients. I really dont want to talk about your personal experiences more than that. I wish u all the best and hope u manage to solve those problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic 49,376 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 46 minutes ago, Florin said: So after 5 months of restrictions, US is in this situation, while countries who didnt have lockdowns were never out of ICU beds and u think that US is in this situation because it didnt have tougher lockdowns? Rehabs, nursing homes, hospice cares are under though restrictions because of the lockdowns u support, not because of the number of covid patients. I really dont want to talk about your personal experiences more than that. I wish u all the best and hope u manage to solve those problems. The US literally had 5 months of non enforced restrictions, de facto no restrictions and are at this point because of that. I don‘t know what your motivation really is, but they way you‘ve been campaigning for people to die, for people to catch a virus that potentially could cripple them for life, the way you constantly try to dismiss Covid-19 as just another flu and the way you dismiss the stories of how a lack of restrictions negatively impacted the lives of several GGD members and their loved ones is borderline offensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOT 3,647 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 For those of you who are unaware, the Daily Telegraph is a pro-Johnson, pro-Conservative, pro-Brexiit newspaper. It's not quite Fox News, but it's in the ballpark. So what have we got here ? We have a story in a pro-government newspaper about an official government report, the results of which (astonishingly) would tend to validate said government's position on lifing lockdown. That being said, I would concede that it is possible that lockdowns will kill more people than they save, not just in Britain, but in my own country, Ireland, and all over the planet. No government KNOWS what it's doing with covid. How could they ? It is unprecedented in our modern world. The British governmemt I would guess, for example, was being presented with a worst-case scenario by medical experts which saw the health service being completely overrun and more than a million people dying. Faced with that scenario, what should they have done ? Rolled the dice ? When/if this thing comes to an end, or we at least reach some accommodation with it, the reviews (with the benefit of hindsight) will, quite rightly, take place. One of the conclusions might be that lockdowns were overly severe to the point of being counter-productive. Maybe ... possibly ... perhaps ... who knows .... but I hope we're all still around to read those conclusions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustHMLover2 706 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Mer Boy said: Then maybe that means that lockdowns in the UK need to be slightly amended to allow such tests to be considered essential. I don't think we should discount lockdowns as a whole because of this rectifiable limitation. Once again, I believe no lockdown = limited non-COVID treatments/tests due to an overwhelmed health system. Lockdowns are not ideal but they are better than other alternatives. Yeah as The Netherlands had lockdowns etc... People should learn to read more before they form their "final" heavy opinion... But it's easier to be a sheep I bet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuckInMyMind 5,930 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Well yeah if you think about the amount of domestic violence and people with mental health issues during this time. Put things into perspective. Not just domestic violence and mental health but a lot of people are doing a lot more home DIY causing more accidents Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,090 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 There's countless ways lockdowns can cause deaths directly or indirectly but 200,000 is way too high an estimate and sounds like fear mongering Unless they mean World Wide and not the UK specifically. If so I can actually see this number and more happening But the lives saved would still be far greater than the ones lost And I mean by a lot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MingersPrayer 585 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Hey kids - can you spell P-R-O-P-A-G-A-N-D-A ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gagzus 24,855 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Our country is so dumb, like did y’all know BoJo The Clown wants us to not have to social distance from November 💀 just so he can give the economy a quick boost before we have another wave after Christmas 💀 what a mess. EDIT: also may I add that we will never be rid of Corona on the planet until we have a vaccine lockdowns are to slow the spread not to get rid of it entirely so that alone proves that lockdowns are far better than not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOSK 640 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 I'll see your 200,000 and raise you millions. Modelers Suggest Pandemic Lockdowns Saved Millions From Dying Of COVID-19 Two new papers published in the journal Nature say that lockdowns put in place to slow the spread of the coronavirus were highly effective, prevented tens of millions of infections and saved millions of lives. "Our estimates show that lockdowns had a really dramatic effect in reducing transmission," says Samir Bhatt, a senior lecturer at the Imperial College London's School of Public Health, who worked on one of the papers published in Nature. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/09/872441984/modelers-suggest-pandemic-lockdowns-saved-millions-from-dying-of-covid-19 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bt1 5,213 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Supersonic said: The US literally had 5 months of non enforced restrictions, de facto no restrictions and are at this point because of that. I don‘t know what your motivation really is, but they way you‘ve been campaigning for people to die, for people to catch a virus that potentially could cripple them for life, the way you constantly try to dismiss Covid-19 as just another flu and the way you dismiss the stories of how a lack of restrictions negatively impacted the lives of several GGD members and their loved ones is borderline offensive. My motivation is the truth. US had 5 months of restrictions. Outside of this controversy about masks, the restrictions in parts of US were in some cases tougher than in Europe or Asia. LA had face masks mandatory outside and their numbers are rising. Of course, US also has places with limited restrictions from the start who never were overwhelmed by covid, but you wont cherry pick those states. "U have been campaigning for people to die" - and yet I posted a study that says that more people risks to die because of restrictions. So again, who is the one "campaigning for people to die"? Who ignores all the warnings about rise in poverty, domestic abuse, women rights abuses, hunger, unemployment and undected diseases? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOSK 640 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Florin said: My motivation is the truth. US had 5 months of restrictions. Outside of this controversy about masks, the restrictions in parts of US were in some cases tougher than in Europe or Asia. LA had face masks mandatory outside and their numbers are rising. Of course, US also has places with limited restrictions from the start who never were overwhelmed by covid, but you wont cherry pick those states. "U have been campaigning for people to die" - and yet I posted a study that says that more people risks to die because of restrictions. So again, who is the one "campaigning for people to die"? Who ignores all the warnings about rise in poverty, domestic abuse, women rights abuses, hunger, unemployment and undected diseases? How you feel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bt1 5,213 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Economy said: There's countless ways lockdowns can cause deaths directly or indirectly but 200,000 is way too high an estimate and sounds like fear mongering Unless they mean World Wide and not the UK specifically. If so I can actually see this number and more happening But the lives saved would still be far greater than the ones lost And I mean by a lot Well, try to find out how many cancer detections were in canada in April 2019 and then how many in April 2020. Maybe the lockdowns in Canada were different than in UK, but only in april in England there were less 130,000 cancer appoiments and something like 10,000 cases undected compared to previous year. That's only one disease in one month in England, not all UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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