Trump wont consider renaming army bases that have Confederate related names

[derpmonster 22,412]

13 hours ago, Mugler said:

If all losers who have their cause shattered should have their history and culture destroyed, then shouldn't every African people who were colonized or enslaved just accept their "loss" and get over it? I sure hope you're also an insane imperialistic culture-destroyer towards the Quebecois, Catalonians, Scottish, Irish,  Flemmish, etc, etc. 

Confederate monuments represent a distinct and dying Southern culture. Any Union leaders would be considered White Supremacists today to people like you. Wanting to destroy history, culture, and art is sick and gross and shouldn't be done either way.

Are you kidding me?

It's not DESTROYING anything. It's about not glorifying historical figures responsible for slavery and genocide.

Confederate monuments do NOT respect Southern culture. They do not need a losing traitor flag for their heritage. 

[Morphine Prince 109,650]

4 hours ago, Mugler said:

There’s is more to the foundational culture of the south than slavery, and if you think that traditional southern culture isn’t dying, I’m not sure what to tell you. 

I never said it wasn’t eroding. But it is still there in many parts. Cultures evolve. It’s not that complicated. 

Slavery and racism shouldn’t be the parts we carry into the future of southern culture. 

There are many other noteworthy things such as food, that can be shared by everyone. 

[alsemanche 97,796]

19 hours ago, Mugler said:

Good. America’s foundation is weak enough. Take away its history and the country will be even more deranged.

 

They will eventually, though. 

Did you just admit that USA's history is based on violence, racism, slavery, and white supremacy? Cause you're not wrong  Except about that part where you're glad they're keeping these vestiges of supremacy of course.

[Mugler 223]

7 hours ago, derpmonster said:

Are you kidding me?

It's not DESTROYING anything. It's about not glorifying historical figures responsible for slavery and genocide.

Confederate monuments do NOT respect Southern culture. They do not need a losing traitor flag for their heritage. 

It's odd to hear people so angry about treachery when, if their logic was applied to all aspects of American history, all the founding fathers would be condemned. Washington would be considered despicable for owning slaves, Lincoln would be considered a White Supremacist by modern standards for wanting freed slaves to return to Africa, etc, etc. 

4 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

I never said it wasn’t eroding. But it is still there in many parts. Cultures evolve. It’s not that complicated. 

Slavery and racism shouldn’t be the parts we carry into the future of southern culture. 

There are many other noteworthy things such as food, that can be shared by everyone. 

Yeah, I don't think there needs to be much of an argument between the importance of culturally important and symbolic historical figures and food. 

[Pennywise 36,080]

Ooooh racists coming out of the woodwork again, we love to see it

 

Spoiler

no we don't, get back to the sewers of this website where you belong 

 

[derpmonster 22,412]

3 hours ago, Mugler said:

It's odd to hear people so angry about treachery when, if their logic was applied to all aspects of American history, all the founding fathers would be condemned. Washington would be considered despicable for owning slaves, Lincoln would be considered a White Supremacist by modern standards for wanting freed slaves to return to Africa, etc, etc. 

And what about it? It's something that needs to be acknowledged and talked about honestly. Americans act like the founding fathers were perfect beacons of foresight and wisdom. They were not. They made mistakes and it's high time we admitted that.

[alsemanche 97,796]

3 hours ago, Mugler said:

It's odd to hear people so angry about treachery when, if their logic was applied to all aspects of American history, all the founding fathers would be condemned. Washington would be considered despicable for owning slaves, Lincoln would be considered a White Supremacist by modern standards for wanting freed slaves to return to Africa, etc, etc. 

Um yes that's exactly what should happen?? They're are trash bags nothing new about that... 

[Mugler 223]

8 hours ago, catsandlabneh said:

Um yes that's exactly what should happen?? They're are trash bags nothing new about that... 

Yeah. Hence my expectation that their statues, monuments, and overall existence will be erased, just like what people are doing to the lower-tier historical racists?

 

8 hours ago, derpmonster said:

And what about it? It's something that needs to be acknowledged and talked about honestly. Americans act like the founding fathers were perfect beacons of foresight and wisdom. They were not. They made mistakes and it's high time we admitted that.

The precedent that we've set is to tear down the memory of anyone in history that can be deemed "racist" or a "white supremacist" (aka everyone prior to 1960). If that's what you want then we don't have much of a disagreement. The only difference is I'd rather we not dismantle the Lincoln Memorial.

[PartySick 172,445]

26 minutes ago, Mugler said:

Yeah. Hence my expectation that their statues, monuments, and overall existence will be erased, just like what people are doing to the lower-tier historical racists?

The precedent that we've set is to tear down the memory of anyone in history that can be deemed "racist" or a "white supremacist" (aka everyone prior to 1960). If that's what you want then we don't have much of a disagreement. The only difference is I'd rather we not dismantle the Lincoln Memorial.

It's not tearing down a memory, it's tearing down symbols that idolize them.

And your argument would be stronger if these monuments didn't go up during the civil rights movement rather than closer to the actual existence of the Confederacy

No one is erasing history, they're just choosing to not make heroes and idols out of certain people who fought for certain things. In this case, generals who led an army to defend the "right" to own people as property

If my redneck rebel flag wearing Trump loving family can understand that and make peace with it, surely you can too

[derpmonster 22,412]

27 minutes ago, Mugler said:

The precedent that we've set is to tear down the memory of anyone in history that can be deemed "racist" or a "white supremacist" (aka everyone prior to 1960). If that's what you want then we don't have much of a disagreement. The only difference is I'd rather we not dismantle the Lincoln Memorial.

There's a difference between "tear[ing] down the memory of" and not glorifying someone whose contribution to society has included the marginalization of so many people. It's tricky when you get to complex figures who have done good and bad depending on which groups of people you consider, but do we need statues to celebrate them all?

Anyone who is not trolling will tell you Lincoln is not a racist because even many of the black people in America back then wanted to go to Africa. Some thought that's where they'd fit in better since everything in America was so starkly in favor of whites. It was another movement that led to black people demanding birthright.

[derpmonster 22,412]

Just now, PartySick said:

And your argument would be stronger if these monuments didn't go up during the civil rights movement rather than closer to the actual existence of the Confederacy

 

This. A lot of confederate idolization was started solely as a reaction to the CRM by Southern Republicans as part of the Southern Strategy. The Southern Democrats who used to love that flag before had been abandoned by the DNC already and disgruntled voters and their former representatives needed a new party to join.

[PartySick 172,445]

12 hours ago, Mugler said:

Washington would be considered despicable for owning slaves, Lincoln would be considered a White Supremacist by modern standards for wanting freed slaves to return to Africa, etc, etc. 

I don't think we've gone that far. Sure some people might think that way but Washington didn't fight to own slaves, he fought to free the US from the British empire. That's his legacy.

Lincoln's legacy is winning the civil war and freeing the slaves, problematic thoughts aside (though I've never heard that he wanted them to go back to Africa ).

Confederate generals' legacies are fighting for the preservation of slavery. So their names belong in history books, not on military bases. Their images belong in museums, not on monuments.

[brownie 5]

On 6/10/2020 at 12:30 PM, MISTER GEEMATICA said:

She’s busy starring in the reboot to Tales From The Crypt as the new cryptkeeper

Fixed 

[Maleficent 6]

On 6/11/2020 at 11:40 PM, Mugler said:

Yeah. Hence my expectation that their statues, monuments, and overall existence will be erased, just like what people are doing to the lower-tier historical racists?

 

The precedent that we've set is to tear down the memory of anyone in history that can be deemed "racist" or a "white supremacist" (aka everyone prior to 1960). If that's what you want then we don't have much of a disagreement. The only difference is I'd rather we not dismantle the Lincoln Memorial.

Satan/Lucifer plays a significant roll in Christianity and the Christian faith but, if churches were filled with monuments to the Devil, people would begin to question who exactly it is you worship

[Mugler 223]

2 minutes ago, Maleficent said:

Satan/Lucifer plays a significant roll in Christianity and the Christian faith but, if churches were filled with monuments to the Devil, people would begin to question who exactly it is you worship

Yes, you guys think literally all white historical figures are the devil and must be destroyed from memory. That’s sort of my problem.