ARTPOP, bad or misunderstood?

[NewUsername 10,337]

28 minutes ago, AlexanderMagno said:

Almost nothing about ARTPOP is ARTPOP.

It was the beginning of the decline of Gaga as a pop concept master. It started out with a brilliant clean concept (before it was released), and eventually it was just... Whatever. The Troy mess can't be the only one responsible for a failed concept, because that would mean that it was all his idea.

As "artsy" and pretentious as it could have been, in fact it's not, at all. The only thing artsy about ARTPOP is Gaga's claim to be artsy.

The only good thing about this album is the DJWS production. Zedd was definitely a mistake that no one was expecting. But DJWS slayed. Best production Gaga has delivered so far. Do What U Want (feat. R. Kelly) and Applause are true production gems, so incredibly intelligent.

Musically there wasn't indeed much ARTPOP about ARTPOP. The hybrid of bringing art into pop was more apparent in her fashion and projects that era, but not in the music itself, indeed. 

So if someone expected to find the concept of ARTPOP in the album itself, that person was going to be disappointed. But if you wanted pop and dance, it's a great album anyhow.

[tomsches 16,954]

My problem was that when she announced that it was gonna be called ARTPOP we would actually get ARTPOP music. What some people dont realise is that ARTPOP is actually a musical genre that combines experimental music with pop. And a lot if people dont remember that but in the pre era she promised us experimental music. So I was excited. When I heard the album for the first time I was disappointed because it was full of regular pop songs, no experimentation whatsoever. It was even less experimental than born this way. Plus, she was like I dont want to release serious music (she said that in lm.com) but then in other interviews talked about ARTPOP as if it was the most complex piece of art ever while at the same time not really knowing WHAT she actually tried to say with it. She presented herself as such an art connoisseur but falsely referred to the Vinus of Milo for the album cover repeatedly. And she wanted to make an album full of different genres which hurts the cohesion of the album. And overall I think some of the songs in the album are just not  very good.

So while I dont think it's a bad album, in general my problem with it was it's musical quality and gaga's lack of research before putting it out 

[HeavyPunkLover 2,120]

ARTPOP is a niche album and one of her best! Chromatica could dream to be this edgy. Chromatica / BTW / ARTPOP are her best albums but for three different reason. 

[Galvon 1,857]

Well it's not perfect but it's fun. It's her sexiest album. Visuals were nice as well, tho some looks were not very original at the time anymore. But were talking about the music. I love listening to this album in the car. Swine is the best song to listen to while driving on a highway.

[AlexanderMagno 10,746]

28 minutes ago, HausOfAntonio said:

The whole point of ARTPOP was to challenge how we perceive things as “artsy”, to make us reassess our own intellectual and cultural biases towards art and how elitist it is. Its a CAMP parody first and foremost; there is nothing that dictates that we should attribute more “value”, whatever that means, to say, “artsy” musicians such as Bjork because they make something that sounds more out there. The whole reverse warholian experience is the idea that there is nothing inherent that divides what we consider serious enough to be art, and then what we consider banal enough to NOT be art. Sorry if I sound angry, I’m such a huge ARTPOP stan 

But there is nothing even "camp" about the album... The album is a story about her life dealing with love, fame, money and pain. In fact, her narrative eventually went for expressing her anger and pain through music (and Chromatica is basically a rehash of that concept, but a much better one, at least conceptually). The artwork was not a parody at all as well, she actually took several artistic movements and blended them into the visuals. There's no mockery there that would justify what you're saying. The "reverse Warholian expedition" is not that complicated as you say, and in fact all of your words are actually describing the opposite of that. It was Warhol that challenged perception of what people think it's art by putting a can of soup as a piece of art. He took banal objects and claimed they were art. I think you have your concepts mixed with your stan glasses  ARTPOP was about (supposedly) bringing art into pop, incorporating what is already considered art in something that is not, elevating it.

I'm sorry, but the whole text sounds like lame ass excuse for what was not really much 

 

13 minutes ago, NewUsername said:

Musically there wasn't indeed much ARTPOP about ARTPOP. The hybrid of bringing art into pop was more apparent in her fashion and projects that era, but not in the music itself, indeed. 

So if someone expected to find the concept of ARTPOP in the album itself, that person was going to be disappointed. But if you wanted pop and dance, it's a great album anyhow.

I guess I agree. But ARTPOP is one of those albums where you can't really ignore the fact that it is build heavily around its concept only to deliver nothing but a regular pop album. If you want a great dance pop album, you don't need to wrap it with such finesse. The concept is too heavy to be ignored. I can argue about great pop albums if we're talking about Katy Perry or Britney Spears, where even if they have a concept it's not really a big thing, they are just about delivering great songs (whether they are good or not).

Chromatica, for example, seems to be the case. Yes, it has a concept, but truthfully it was never the most important, it's not heavily promoted, and even Gaga talked about the album being just great fun pop songs (the Chromatica songs don't really connect with the concept of a planet where people fight for kindness anyway, but fortunately that's not a concept heavily explored).

[HausOfAntonio 7,821]

1 hour ago, AlexanderMagno said:

But there is nothing even "camp" about the album... The album is a story about her life dealing with love, fame, money and pain. In fact, her narrative eventually went for expressing her anger and pain through music (and Chromatica is basically a rehash of that concept, but a much better one, at least conceptually). The artwork was not a parody at all as well, she actually took several artistic movements and blended them into the visuals. There's no mockery there that would justify what you're saying. The "reverse Warholian expedition" is not that complicated as you say, and in fact all of your words are actually describing the opposite of that. It was Warhol that challenged perception of what people think it's art by putting a can of soup as a piece of art. He took banal objects and claimed they were art. I think you have your concepts mixed with your stan glasses  ARTPOP was about (supposedly) bringing art into pop, incorporating what is already considered art in something that is not, elevating it.

I'm sorry, but the whole text sounds like lame ass excuse for what was not really much 

IDK, it may be naivety, but I think she was aware that taking these "serious" works of art and incorporating them into celebrity culture didn't really elevate her art, it just made us question why one is valued more or judged to different standards than the other. The whole phenomenon of labelling her as pretentious is already SO telling of our approach to what kind of artwork is allowed into the elitist circle or art. And also like, Fashion!, Donatella, Venus, MANiCURE? How are these songs not camp, or parody, or self-mocking? At the end of the day, this is what the album means to me, so... not much I can say other than stress its importance in my life which may not amount to much at all.

[Enigma 7,182]

People calling ARTPOP a mess... Yeah that's like the whole point

If you don't like artistic messiness, then that's another thing

Chromatica made me realize how strong ARTPOP was (well, I knew already, but it strenghtened it). And that's not shade, I adore Chromatica, but I put ARTPOP into perspective and next to Joanne it's strong as hell, and holds it weight perfectly next to Chromatica.

Let's be real, y'all just hate this album because promotion went south 

[Doot 2]

ARTPOP has higher highs than Chromatica, but has lower lows than Chromatica. It's also not very cohesive. 

And there's just something about the production. 

[Butters Stotch 4,500]

ARTPOP is amazing as a concept, but they failed to put that concept into the music, because the album itself doesn't say much. When you want to understand what ARTPOP was and what it standed for, you have to research and relive the whole era, the music itself is not enough, and that's why I think ARTPOP is far from being her best album. The concept is amazing and she made a lot of things that make me love the era, and I like the music, and I will always love everything Gaga does because I admire her artistry, but if you erased everything else she did during the era, and stuck only to the music, it makes no sense, not even when she says it's her "pain exploding through electronic music", I don't see nor feel that pain anywhere but on Swine and Dope, the rest of the songs are definitely not about her pain, maybe about her anger, but not about her pain at all, and though the album sounds cohesive musically speaking, it doesn't have much to say. That's the main issue with it. It sounds empty.

[ARTGOD 3,266]

2 hours ago, Candy Gaga said:

ARTPOP mistake was that she ignored the lyrics and focused on the production. Songs like Donatella , Jewels and Drugs or Fashion! might be bops but the lyrics don't make sense at parts , bad at parts and some of gaga's weakest through out all the album. And unfortunately the production she depended on aged like milk so the album ended as underwhelming.

Chromatica is like the updated greater pop follow up to ARTPOP. Both are EDM albums but she ditched the rave/heavy noisy at parts production of ARTPOP with a Euro-Dance / Electro-Pop / Dance-Pop sound that sounds fresh and accessible this time and in addition to great relatable lyrics this time she created a masterpiece

I agree that JnD has nonsense lyrics, but Donatella and Fashion!? They seem so straightforward to me.

I disagree with ARTPOP’s production having aged. I feel like the production is weird and unique enough to still be worth listening even though the genre it belongs to is no longer popular.

Generic and really mainstream EDM from that era has aged badly because it was done to death. Most of ARTPOP is EDM, but a type of EDM that is way more experimental and unique than what was popular at the time.

I still see people reacting to ARTPOP for the very first time and being blown away by some of the production choices. I don’t think that would be the case if the production had aged that badly.

I agree that Chromatica is more polished and cohesive as an album, but it lacks the flavor that ARTPOP has. I have heard a lot of dance records from other pop artists that are also really good and polished, but I haven’t heard something that resembles ARTPOP from any of her peers.

[Butters Stotch 4,500]

2 hours ago, NewUsername said:

Musically there wasn't indeed much ARTPOP about ARTPOP. The hybrid of bringing art into pop was more apparent in her fashion and projects that era, but not in the music itself, indeed. 

So if someone expected to find the concept of ARTPOP in the album itself, that person was going to be disappointed. But if you wanted pop and dance, it's a great album anyhow.

This completely, my thoughts exactly. She literally made a pop music album (which is great, I'm not complaining nor criticizing it), and promoted it with artsy visuals and fashion, and in general the idea that was promoted sounded like the music was gonna be all about art and artistic revolution, and we got nothing of that, I don't see how she put the "art" in the pop music she made, just on her image and the visuals of the era. For me, the music has nothing to do with the concept promoted.

Now, you see the rest of her albums, obviously including Chromatica, and you see the concept reflected on the music. When she talks about the album on her interviews, you can understand she went a certain way musically and lyrically, you understand the concept through the music. And that doesn't happen with ARTPOP.

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

Its not a bad album at all. But the message she was trying to convey was so confusing and messy... so alot of people didn't understand, and still don't to this day. The whole "my ARTPOP could mean anything" is really vague. 

Its not just that... but she was talking about the album as if it was something for the history books and the art was authentically created. When actually most (if not all) the instrumentals were beats from either scrapped or released songs by other artists. How can you have an album talking about such a high valued concept, yet create barely anything of the instrumentals? 

I love the songs on ARTPOP but from a creative standpoint of the songs, its her least authentic album. However, the concept behind her thinking was probably her most artistic yet. People weren't ready for that type of understanding of music, and it really didn't help that Gaga herself couldn't exactly explain it in a way that was interpreted more easily. To be honest, I think Gaga herself couldn't find the words to explain her way of thinking to herself. She couldn't explain it because she didn’t know the words to explain it.

I think now that Gaga has been through so much, the world is ready to acknowledge the message and understand it better. Thats why she brought it back with Chromatica. She knows exactly how to explain it and what she wants to say. And everything was organically created for this album. Chromatica is her best, and most personal album yet... and it revisits the theme of ARTPOP and puts it across in a way that can be understood.

[Enigma 7,182]

Just now, GGVS said:

ARTPOP is amazing as a concept, but they failed to put that concept into the music, because the album itself doesn't say much. When you want to understand what ARTPOP was and what it standed for, you have to research and relive the whole era, the music itself is not enough, and that's why I think ARTPOP is far from being her best album. The concept is amazing and she made a lot of things that make me love the era, and I like the music, and I will always love everything Gaga does because I admire her artistry, but if you erased everything else she did during the era, and stuck only to the music, it makes no sense, not even when she says it's her "pain exploding through electronic music", I don't see nor feel that pain anywhere but on Swine and Dope, the rest of the songs are definitely not about her pain, maybe about her anger, but not about her pain at all, and though the album sounds cohesive musically speaking, it doesn't have much to say. That's the main issue with it. It sounds empty.

"It's not a statement as much as just a move of passion"

"My ARTPOP could mean anything"

Those are the defining lines of the album imo. That's the whole point. It doesn't HAVE to mean something. It's an adrenaline rush from start to finish, it's her passion exploding through music. You're right in saying it doesn't explicitly mention her pain much, but that's the evolution between ARTPOP and Chromatica. ARTPOP is her hiding her pain away to party ("Cause she walks so bad, like it feels so good" "I don't wanna be alone forever / But I can be tonight") whereas Chromatica is her acknowledging her pain and realizing she doesn't need to hide it to dance through it.

Overall I think that album was a critique about how everything has to be deep nowadays. She just wanted to make an explosive dance record referencing a bunch of things she likes, like fashion (Fashion!), art (ARTPOP and many more), sex (G.U.Y., Sex dream), dancing (every track basically), weed (MJH), travelling (Gypsy), performing (Applause)... It's a celebration of human life, desires, simple pleasures. It's very epicurian/hedonistic imo (basically : enjoying the basic pleasures of life just because you can). As stated in aura "Dance, sex, art, pop, tech"

I think that's one of the reasons it was so heavily linked to Warhol, who literally took a can of soup and was like "This is art. There's no meaning behind it, but this is art, it's enjoyable, and that's what matters"

[patrickcz 23]

ARTPOP was amazing album. I think her label didn’t pay enough attention to her because we all know all those ideas which were scrapped (app, act II,...).

the idea of combining art and pop was I think very Gaga - she was always like this. Even though the final cut of tracks were not very “artistic” except for few songs, still the idea was there but somehow didn’t work. Then all went down. And I still think it’s her labels fault. It could be so big and great.

anyway I still think ARTPOP is amazing album and has much bigger quality than nowadays artists albums.

[Butters Stotch 4,500]

3 minutes ago, Enigma said:

"It's not a statement as much as just a move of passion"

"My ARTPOP could mean anything"

Those are the defining lines of the album imo. That's the whole point. It doesn't HAVE to mean something. It's an adrenaline rush from start to finish, it's her passion exploding through music. You're right in saying it doesn't explicitly mention her pain much, but that's the evolution between ARTPOP and Chromatica. ARTPOP is her hiding her pain away to party ("Cause she walks so bad, like it feels so good" "I don't wanna be alone forever / But I can be tonight") whereas Chromatica is her acknowledging her pain and realizing she doesn't need to hide it to dance through it.

Overall I think that album was a critique about how everything has to be deep nowadays. She just wanted to make an explosive dance record referencing a bunch of things she likes, like fashion (Fashion!), art (ARTPOP and many more), sex (G.U.Y., Sex dream), dancing (every track basically), weed (MJH), travelling (Gypsy), performing (Applause)... It's a celebration of human life, desires, simple pleasures. It's very epicurian/hedonistic imo (basically : enjoying the basic pleasures of life just because you can). As stated in aura "Dance, sex, art, pop, tech"

I think that's one of the reasons it was so heavily linked to Warhol, who literally took a can of soup and was like "This is art. There's no meaning behind it, but this is art, it's enjoyable, and that's what matters"

I love how you explain it. And yes, I agree what you say about her hiding her pain on ARTPOP and exploring it on Chromatica.