Joaquin Phoenix Rescues Mother Cow and Newborn Calf Day after Academy Award

[ALGAYDO 32,704]

One day, generations from now, people are gonna look back and think, “holy shít, people used to breed, torture and kill innocent animals for food?! We used to be so barbaric!” And honestly, I wish I could be there. 

[Glamourpuss 29,062]

7 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

So the answer is that you "control" the population of cows by killing them. 

The farm I go to has the cows grazing on pastures and they are free to roam on the fields. I go directly to the farm so I can see how they treat the animals. But if you were to release all the cows we have into the wild, you couldn't just stick them in a national park. National parks are protected, so the only place for them would be forest areas. 

In both scenarios, you are still gonna have the same "issue". Dead cows. If you allow the cows to do whatever they want with nothing hunting them, they will be overpopulated. You would then have to control the population by killing off some of the cattle. If you just left them, they will die anyways. So what's wrong with just eating them? They are gonna die eventually, cow meat is part of our diet, you are controlling their population by killing them/eating them... there is no issue here at all. Cows won't get over populated and risk becoming extinct. Its a win for everyone

As I said, if we get rid of factory farming and move back towards a more regenerative natural agricultural way of farming, it would be much better for the animals and much better for us

No not by killing them. I don't think it would be that hard to keep bulls seperate.

I was clearly just thinking on the spot and brainstorming. So they couldn't go to a national park then, whatever. There would have to be some designated area for them. 

Stop trying to poke holes in everything I say. If you go back to the first comment I ever made on this I said I didn't want to get into a debate and it seems I've been in one ever since. 

I don't know what scenario would be better I just know a hell of a lot less lives would be slaughtered for human consumption. 

[Glamourpuss 29,062]

Just now, ALGAYDO said:

One day, generations from now, people are gonna look back and think, “holy shít, people used to breed, torture and kill innocent animals for food?! We used to be so barbaric!” And honestly, I wish I could be there. 

I know right? They are going to be shocked and appalled that it wasn't in the middle ages but the 21st century. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 minute ago, Glamourpuss said:

No not by killing them. I don't think it would be that hard to keep bulls seperate.

I was clearly just thinking on the spot and brainstorming. So they couldn't go to a national park then, whatever. There would have to be some designated area for them. 

Stop trying to poke holes in everything I say. If you go back to the first comment I ever made on this I said I didn't want to get into a debate and it seems I've been in one ever since. 

I don't know what scenario would be better I just know a hell of a lot less lives would be slaughtered for human consumption. 

I'm not trying to poke holes sis, its already full of them. Cows can't breed if you separate bulls from cows, can they? So we run into the first issue which we talked about... cows dying out completely. They can't reproduce if the bulls are separated, so cow population will eventually be wiped out entirely. They will become extinct. There would be none of your friends left.

Thats cool if you don't want to debate, you didn't have to keep quoting me. 

The scenario where we have 100% grass fed cows living on pastures and instead of being in factory farms is the best for everyone. It keeps cows as a species alive, it means that cow populations wouldn't be too high or too low, it means that we get fed our natural diet and so do the cows, and it helps contribute to lowering carbon emissions. The UK is predominantly pastures land... we should be utilising that rather than factory farms for Tesco. Cows are supposed to be killed, just not the way under factory farming

[Glamourpuss 29,062]

1 minute ago, xoxo Craig said:

I'm not trying to poke holes sis, its already full of them. Cows can't breed if you separate bulls from cows, can they? So we run into the first issue which we talked about... cows dying out completely. They can't reproduce if the bulls are separated, so cow population will eventually be wiped out entirely. They will become extinct. There would be none of your friends left.

Thats cool if you don't want to debate, you didn't have to keep quoting me. 

The scenario where we have 100% grass fed cows living on pastures and instead of being in factory farms is the best for everyone. It keeps cows as a species alive, it means that cow populations wouldn't be too high or too low, it means that we get fed our natural diet and so do the cows, and it helps contribute to lowering carbon emissions. The UK is predominantly pastures land... we should be utilising that rather than factory farms for Tesco. Cows are supposed to be killed, just not the way under factory farming

There aren't any holes.

Stop calling them my "friends". I'll engage in a discussion with you but I won't be belittled. I meant that in a way that I see animals as other species to live harmoniously with, not in some cheesy Disney way. 

 I'm clearly not an agriculturalist I don't know what solution they would come up with. I just know that whatever the solution it's better than bringing millions of lives into the world just to slaughter them. I mentioned that scenario as an idea. I imagine if something like that were to happen that there would have to be some human intervention to allow the cows to cross paths. Just because you can't conceive of it now doesn't mean it couldn't exist. But we are a long way off having to worry about what to do about that. 

The scenario you mentioned would be a better farming solution but if everybody became vegan I don't think we'd be overrun by cows. I don't have the solution but I know there is one. They wouldn't just be running free and breeding everywhere. 

I don't agree with any of your logic at all. "Cows are supposed to be killed". You're conditioned to believe that. I used to have the same belief because I was raised as a meat eater. But yes, factory farming needs to go. 

[Guest]

King of animal rights

Spoiler

river would be proud

 

[StrawberryBlond 14,881]

May I add, what will be the solution to all these farmyard animals being set free and running amok? They'll be breeding like crazy, being knocked down by cars, cluttering up walkways, intruding into our gardens and driveways and of course, being eaten by predators, there'll be dead bodies everywhere. In India, cows wandering free is already a huge problem. They sit in the middle of roads, blocking traffic and somebody (because not everyone is pro-cow in India just because the law protects them) inevitably starts hitting them to get them to move. They wander into people's gardens and trample on plants (God forbid a child is sitting out there). Cows are very dangerous because of their weight, farmers have been killed by cows before. And bulls wandering around? That is extremely dangerous due to their high testosterone and temperament. Speaking as someone who was once in a car while an erstwhile bull with a ring through its nose encircled it, it's quite frightening. Imagine this being a regular occurrence all over the world. Part of the reason we domesticated and enclosed animals is to protect humans from them. Our safety matters just as much as theirs.

52 minutes ago, uo111 said:

Constipation on a vegan diet is a HUGE red flag. The entire premise is ludicrous. She was constipated and meat, dairy and eggs cured her? That’s quite literally not how the human body works. You can say all you want that “everybody is unique,” but that’s not just unique, it’s impossible. 

I just said no two bodies are the same. Who are you to say whose body is right and wrong? Anyone can suffer constipation regardless of what they eat. Some people are just more prone to eat. Some can digest stuff others can't. I can eat a whole bunch of stuff with no problem yet the same food sends my mum rushing to the toilet and bloats her out. I've never had a problem with my bowels despite eating meat, other meat eaters have IBS. Some meat eaters have never had so much as a cold, some vegans are ill all the time. We're all individuals and need to eat according to what our bodies tell us. If you look up more ex vegan videos, they'll give you similar tales. If this many people are having digestive problems, it must be real. I find it funny that so many vegans are so supportive of someone's vegan diet and saying how good it looks and how nutritious it looks and then when that person quits veganism, they'll immediately claim they can't have been doing it right which is why they didn't get the desired results. Blatant contradiction and they can't even see it. They'll turn anything around to fit their agenda rather than admit they're wrong.

[uo111 5,265]

2 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

May I add, what will be the solution to all these farmyard animals being set free and running amok? They'll be breeding like crazy, being knocked down by cars, cluttering up walkways, intruding into our gardens and driveways and of course, being eaten by predators, there'll be dead bodies everywhere. In India, cows wandering free is already a huge problem. They sit in the middle of roads, blocking traffic and somebody (because not everyone is pro-cow in India just because the law protects them) inevitably starts hitting them to get them to move. They wander into people's gardens and trample on plants (God forbid a child is sitting out there). Cows are very dangerous because of their weight, farmers have been killed by cows before. And bulls wandering around? That is extremely dangerous due to their high testosterone and temperament. Speaking as someone who was once in a car while an erstwhile bull with a ring through its nose encircled it, it's quite frightening. Imagine this being a regular occurrence all over the world. Part of the reason we domesticated and enclosed animals is to protect humans from them. Our safety matters just as much as theirs.

I just said no two bodies are the same. Who are you to say whose body is right and wrong? Anyone can suffer constipation regardless of what they eat. Some people are just more prone to eat. Some can digest stuff others can't. I can eat a whole bunch of stuff with no problem yet the same food sends my mum rushing to the toilet and bloats her out. I've never had a problem with my bowels despite eating meat, other meat eaters have IBS. Some meat eaters have never had so much as a cold, some vegans are ill all the time. We're all individuals and need to eat according to what our bodies tell us. If you look up more ex vegan videos, they'll give you similar tales. If this many people are having digestive problems, it must be real. I find it funny that so many vegans are so supportive of someone's vegan diet and saying how good it looks and how nutritious it looks and then when that person quits veganism, they'll immediately claim they can't have been doing it right which is why they didn't get the desired results. Blatant contradiction and they can't even see it. They'll turn anything around to fit their agenda rather than admit they're wrong.

Do you not consider yourself logical? I thought you did.

But saying vegetables make you constipated and vegans are crazy if they think otherwise is just... not it.

[StrawberryBlond 14,881]

2 minutes ago, uo111 said:

Do you not consider yourself logical? I thought you did.

But saying vegetables make you constipated and vegans are crazy if they think otherwise is just... not it.

Yes, definitely logical enough to realise that all bodies are different and have different needs, capabilities and intolerances. While eating lots of greens will definitely get the average person's bowels moving, it won't happen to everyone. Not to mention, when you're ill, your digestive system always works differently. Some people are also constantly needing to pee regardless of how much they drink, others only go 4 times a day. What part of "all bodies are different" don't you understand?

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

33 minutes ago, Glamourpuss said:

There aren't any holes.

Stop calling them my "friends". I'll engage in a discussion with you but I won't be belittled. I meant that in a way that I see animals as other species to live harmoniously with, not in some cheesy Disney way. 

 I'm clearly not an agriculturalist I don't know what solution they would come up with. I just know that whatever the solution it's better than bringing millions of lives into the world just to slaughter them. I mentioned that scenario as an idea. I imagine if something like that were to happen that there would have to be some human intervention to allow the cows to cross paths. Just because you can't conceive of it now doesn't mean it couldn't exist. But we are a long way off having to worry about what to do about that. 

The scenario you mentioned would be a better farming solution but if everybody became vegan I don't think we'd be overrun by cows. I don't have the solution but I know there is one. They wouldn't just be running free and breeding everywhere. 

I don't agree with any of your logic at all. "Cows are supposed to be killed". You're conditioned to believe that. I used to have the same belief because I was raised as a meat eater. But yes, factory farming needs to go. 

If there weren't any holes, then I wouldn't be able to quote you.

I never meant to belittle you, I was simply using the same language you used earlier. 

Clearly you feel some type of way towards animals that have always been considered food, and thats fine. As I said, its in the curriculum that we get taught from an early age that all animals are our "friends" when that has never been the case. I was taught in school that red meat is bad for me, and that vegetables are the best thing for you... then I later learned that I was lied to, and grass fed meat is the best thing for me. 

I struggle to grasp your logic that every animal deserves to be treated like humans, because we have always ate certain animals, and we have always had certain animals as "our friends". It doesn't make sense why we would go against what is natural to us. The science says otherwise. 

We have to think about what's sustainable and what would be better for everyone... including the animals. Which, the scenario I came up with does. If everyone went vegan, not only would we have overpopulated cows and pigs, but the fields used for growing crops would permanently damage the soil... meaning it completely destroys the ecosystems with nothing to rejuvenate fields. Cows would go extinct, CO² levels would be higher because it can't get absorbed into the ground, and our health would deteriorate.

If you truly believe what you believe, thats cool. Do what makes you happy

[Glamourpuss 29,062]

1 minute ago, xoxo Craig said:

 

I struggle to grasp your logic that every animal deserves to be treated like humans, because we have always ate certain animals, and we have always had certain animals as "our friends". It doesn't make sense why we would go against what is natural to us. The science says otherwise. 

 

We aren't cave men anymore. We have evolved. We are more aware that animals are intelligent and feel emotions. We have a better ability to source food that doesn't require animal exploitation. It's easy to grasp but not for somebody who keeps looking to the past instead of looking to the future. Just because we've always done things this way and always eaten certain animals doesn't mean it's right to continue that. The majority of us don't need to hunt anymore and don't know how to.  

[Glamourpuss 29,062]

41 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

May I add, what will be the solution to all these farmyard animals being set free and running amok? They'll be breeding like crazy, being knocked down by cars, cluttering up walkways, intruding into our gardens and driveways and of course, being eaten by predators, there'll be dead bodies everywhere. In India, cows wandering free is already a huge problem. They sit in the middle of roads, blocking traffic and somebody (because not everyone is pro-cow in India just because the law protects them) inevitably starts hitting them to get them to move. They wander into people's gardens and trample on plants (God forbid a child is sitting out there). Cows are very dangerous because of their weight, farmers have been killed by cows before. And bulls wandering around? That is extremely dangerous due to their high testosterone and temperament. Speaking as someone who was once in a car while an erstwhile bull with a ring through its nose encircled it, it's quite frightening. Imagine this being a regular occurrence all over the world. Part of the reason we domesticated and enclosed animals is to protect humans from them. Our safety matters just as much as theirs.

I just said no two bodies are the same. Who are you to say whose body is right and wrong? Anyone can suffer constipation regardless of what they eat. Some people are just more prone to eat. Some can digest stuff others can't. I can eat a whole bunch of stuff with no problem yet the same food sends my mum rushing to the toilet and bloats her out. I've never had a problem with my bowels despite eating meat, other meat eaters have IBS. Some meat eaters have never had so much as a cold, some vegans are ill all the time. We're all individuals and need to eat according to what our bodies tell us. If you look up more ex vegan videos, they'll give you similar tales. If this many people are having digestive problems, it must be real. I find it funny that so many vegans are so supportive of someone's vegan diet and saying how good it looks and how nutritious it looks and then when that person quits veganism, they'll immediately claim they can't have been doing it right which is why they didn't get the desired results. Blatant contradiction and they can't even see it. They'll turn anything around to fit their agenda rather than admit they're wrong.

I think it's pretty clear that in first world countries the cows wouldn't be freely roaming like that. Can you really imagine them just being set free to roam around cities and cross over motorways. 

It is true that some people who try veganism and give up weren't eating properly and sourcing the right nutrients. It's a common problem. But it takes time for your body to adjust to a new diet and new types of food.

But you're right that every body is different and some people can't tolerate certain types of food. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 minute ago, Glamourpuss said:

We aren't cave men anymore. We have evolved. We are more aware that animals are intelligent and feel emotions. We have a better ability to source food that doesn't require animal exploitation. It's easy to grasp but not for somebody who keeps looking to the past instead of looking to the future. Just because we've always done things this way and always eaten certain animals doesn't mean it's right to continue that. The majority of us don't need to hunt anymore and don't know how to.  

I'm not talking about hunting, we don't nees to hunt but we can still eat the same diet     Yes animals have feelings, but not on the same scale as humans. Its not gonna impact someones life the same way if a human died. Cows aren't pets, but dogs are. Its really easy to grasp that we are supposed to eat meat using basic biology and having an understanding why meat is very important, and why a vegan diet is not sustainable for human life

[Glamourpuss 29,062]

1 minute ago, xoxo Craig said:

I'm not talking about hunting, we don't nees to hunt but we can still eat the same diet     Yes animals have feelings, but not on the same scale as humans. Its not gonna impact someones life the same way if a human died. Cows aren't pets, but dogs are. Its really easy to grasp that we are supposed to eat meat using basic biology and having an understanding why meat is very important, and why a vegan diet is not sustainable for human life

I know cows aren't pets but they aren't "just" an animal either. They feel emotions and they feel pain. I don't believe they are on the same level as humans but I don't think it's right to treat them lesser and ignore their pain. 

I know the science behind why we are supposed to eat meat but I also know there are healthy people who don't eat any animal products and they are super healthy. I feel healthier when I don't eat any of that stuff. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

5 minutes ago, Glamourpuss said:

I know cows aren't pets but they aren't "just" an animal either. They feel emotions and they feel pain. I don't believe they are on the same level as humans but I don't think it's right to treat them lesser and ignore their pain. 

I know the science behind why we are supposed to eat meat but I also know there are healthy people who don't eat any animal products and they are super healthy. I feel healthier when I don't eat any of that stuff. 

It goes back to my original point, diets should be a choice and not forced upon us. You've found one that you like. I'm on a carnivore diet, I only eat meat and animal products like fats and eggs! I eat very little in the way of plant matter... I only indulge in chocolate on rare occasions. But through the carnivore diet, I am the healthiest I have ever been. My skin conditions have gotten better, my blood results are the best they have been, my blood pressure is really really good, I feel physically happier and healthier... not to mention stronger when I'm in the gym. The more plant matter like vegetables I eat, the worse I feel... and the worse my health gets.