Biden calls voter a “lying dog-faced pony soldier”

[Whispering 18,865]

Just now, mauvais said:

 

Relative cost of living statements  are a trap. States with lower costs of living just... set lower minimum wages. As @PartySick pointed out,  he lives in a smaller town in FL and, typically, rent there = 100 hours of min. wage pay. How do you expect people to support their households and save for the future under these conditions? Unless, of course that's not your concern and you're more interested in being condescending to everyone else. 

A working class exodus (worse than what is currently happening in cities) would be catastrophic for every single city, town, f*cking village in the world. Pretend all you want that coastal cities are PMC playgrounds but, in reality, cities cannot function without the working class. Families cannot just... live with roommates. We live in a time of unprecedented inequality but it hasn't always been like this and it sure as f*ck doesn't need to be like this. 

I was simply pointing out that there are many cities where rent is more. affordable. Cost of living is drastically different, depending on the city or town you live in. 

I don’t think a minimum wage job was ever going to be a way to provide for yourself as a single adult for the rest of your life. It can be a supplement, second job, temporary and help out, but it’s not going to get you a nice apartment, car payment w/insurance, phone, electricity and food. You could make it if you lived with roommates and rode the bus (in an average cost of living smaller city or town) or lived with family.

Most people will try to move on to a full time position somewhere that pays more per hour- factory, waitress at a nicer restaurant, trade position, factory work, etc. You don’t have to have a college degree, but moving past minimum wage is something people probably are going to need to aim for if they want to live in the fashion stated in the paragraph above. 

[Economy 52,845]

22 minutes ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Something not doing as amazingly as planned or even potentially backfiring isn't a reason to not try when the situation is dire. I don't understand the point of this criticism.

Our alternative (the status quo) is much more dystopian than the potential losses of a not 100% successful rent control system.

Finally, opposition on the basis that "X method" didn't work, is unrelated to "Let's try Y method"  

Some things only make situations even more dire. It's not a matter of "not working as good as". Sometimes it literally makes things worse as it did in my Province and now we're having to manage this supply crunch with subsidies, giving away government land for construction (if it's used for cheap housing or rentals specifically) and have government also involved in construction to build affordable housing as fast as possible because these regulations for over 20 years after being innacted led to stalled construction.

 

Supply and demand is a very very basic concept in prices.... U do something to discourage production and supply and create a supply crunch u make it even worse for consumers in the long run

 

I know most ppl who support socialism or far left have a hard time wanting to even acknowledge the possibility that sometimes regulations and certain policies meant to do good do indeed backfire and make it worse but there's many examples world wide of stuff like that happening

 

I mean if America wants to try rent controls by all means try it. But I don't think u will ultimately like the result 10+ years from now... And then it's hard to deal with it once u make the problem worse

 

We had a government in Ontario for a very long time that loved regulating details maybe they shouldn't have. They screwed up all kinds of things including housing (especially rental market) and hydro among other things

 

I do believe there is a strong role for the Government to play in trying to equalize things a bit and protecting consumers and workers (hence why I don't like hard core capitalism)...

 

But I also think there's things that sound beautiful to the ears and then when u actually go thru with it in the end the results are not at all what was promised or what supporters were hoping for

[Economy 52,845]

9 minutes ago, Whispering said:

I was simply pointing out that there are many cities where rent is more. affordable. Cost of living is drastically different, depending on the city or town you live in. 

I don’t think a minimum wage job was ever going to be a way to provide for yourself as a single adult for the rest of your life. It can be a supplement, second job, temporary and help out, but it’s not going to get you a nice apartment, car payment w/insurance, phone, electricity and food. You could make it if you lived with roommates and rode the bus (in an average cost of living smaller city or town) or lived with family.

Most people will try to move on to a full time position somewhere that pays more per hour- factory, waitress at a nicer restaurant, trade position, factory work, etc. You don’t have to have a college degree, but moving past minimum wage is something people probably are going to need to aim for if they want to live in the fashion stated in the paragraph above. 

I seldom agree with u

 

On the one hand minimum wage jobs are not intended to be jobs u keep for life and u do wanna move on. They are usually level entry jobs or low skill jobs which naturally pay the lowest wages

 

But it's also import to note that many regions lack enough of other opportunities to move to. Not every city in every State/Province/District has as much industry available as one would ideally like and sometimes people are forced to settle for lower paying jobs than they intended... This happens especially in areas that were strongly supported by manufacturing jobs that largely died and now only have cheap service industries with low paying jobs as a support

 

Modern jobs that are good paying also nowadays are very technical and have specific education required for people to qualify for them they are not level entry jobs u can just get hired to and learn on the job. This is why education needs to be more accessible and affordable because people who can't get it for one reason or another nowadays are often locked out from most good paying jobs. Job mobility is at an all time low because if the ever rising skills needed for most growing industries like software programers, engineers, technicians etc etc etc

 

Additionally the minimum wage rate puts a floor on other jobs that typically pay a bit more than minimum wage but not a lot more (say like customer service representative in cubicals for example) . If minimum wage is held down, other jobs that typically pay only slightly more also largely get held down

 

Lastly when adjusting for inflation and productivity gains, minimum wage and wages in general should have gone up way more than they have. It's rediculous that with GDP growth (even on a per capita basis) this has been the result:

 

 

As u can see since the 1970s most of the economic output gains per worker have stayed at the top and not trickled down and something needs to be done about that. Forcing higher minimum wages than the pathetic $8/h some States still have is a start. Even low skilled jobs don't deserve wages that low!

 

However I do think there's also a balance to be had. If the minimum wage was raised too much that would be problematic... I also think depending on the economy and cost of living by region the ideal minimum wage in one area may not be the ideal in another

 

For example the NYC economy may benefit and be able to hand a $15/h to $16/h minimum wage but a small town in Kansas probably not

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

57 minutes ago, Economy said:

Rent control backfires

 

Weve had a serious issue here in Ontario where rent control resulted in rent purpose building contruction to collapse which led to a severe shortage

 

In the short term for a few years yeah it kept a lid on prices. But over the long term it made things worse.... Recently they relaxed most of the rent control laws and we've seen permits and construction greatly increase

 

Everyone reacting with LMAOs should understand that policies sometimes meant to accomplish something don't always accomplish what it's intention was at least not without side effects

 

This is why I'm Centre-Left on economics but not all the way left...

 

I like the idea of protection for consumers and workers and some redistribution...

 

But u also can't deny that not every policy works as great as it sounds. Some stuff backfires or has offsetting impacts that on a net basis ends up making things worse

 

I think ppl should consider the broader scope of everything in more detail rather than automatically supporting a policy just because it sounds like it's on the workers or people's sides

 

I've had this conversation with some ppl like @Woolfsmck @Florin @Florian I believe and I know some of these ppl don't automatically accept every left wing policy for the same reasons

 

Intent does not always = actual results

pure socialist economy fails to pay for itself and you get a wealth exodus … (see France and California)   

and those two places aren't purely socialist yet … 

Pure Capitalism has a micro few living in excess with the rest serving them … 

 

the middle class 'was'  America's main claim to equality … now both left and right policies continue to wipe it out … 

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

36 minutes ago, Economy said:

Some things only make situations even more dire. It's not a matter of "not working as good as". Sometimes it literally makes things worse as it did in my Province and now we're having to manage this supply crunch with subsidies, giving away government land for construction (if it's used for cheap housing or rentals specifically) and have government also involved in construction to build affordable housing as fast as possible because these regulations for over 20 years after being innacted led to stalled construction.

 

Supply and demand is a very very basic concept in prices.... U do something to discourage production and supply and create a supply crunch u make it even worse for consumers in the long run

 

I know most ppl who support socialism or far left have a hard time wanting to even acknowledge the possibility that sometimes regulations and certain policies meant to do good do indeed backfire and make it worse but there's many examples world wide of stuff like that happening

 

I mean if America wants to try rent controls by all means try it. But I don't think u will ultimately like the result 10+ years from now... And then it's hard to deal with it once u make the problem worse

 

We had a government in Ontario for a very long time that loved regulating details maybe they shouldn't have. They screwed up all kinds of things including housing (especially rental market) and hydro among other things

 

I do believe there is a strong role for the Government to play in trying to equalize things a bit and protecting consumers and workers (hence why I don't like hard core capitalism)...

 

But I also think there's things that sound beautiful to the ears and then when u actually go thru with it in the end the results are not at all what was promised or what supporters were hoping for

Are you saying Rent Control can never work, fundamentally?

[Whispering 18,865]

23 minutes ago, mauvais said:

Once again, pretend all you want that minimum wage work is temporary in principle or practice, but in reality where the rest of us live, a minimum wage job is not a temporary position before you get a 'real job' or whatever. I would love to see you tell a fifty year old working in an Amazon warehouse for minimum wage that their job shouldn't cover basic human rights like housing, electricity and food when they work for the biggest company in the world. 

Amazon’s minimum wage is $15 and the federal minimum wage is $7.25, so that’s what I was referring to when I said a more stable job. Warehouse work, especially for a company like Amazon or Fed Ex.

Also, if you are a single person making the federal minimum wage, you are at poverty level. You then qualify for federal benefits. That would include SNAP, Medicaid, and housing/rental assistance. If you have a child, they qualify for Headstart, SNAP, free breakfast and lunches at school, CHIP, and WIC. There are also assistance programs for electricity, cable, back to school supplies and uniforms, coats, Christmas for children, and possibly after school programs or summer programs. (depending on the state) 

[Economy 52,845]

52 minutes ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Are you saying Rent Control can never work, fundamentally?

Never? I wouldn't go that far

 

If a Nation has a slow growth population rate (or flat or even declining) and construction of new supply is not of much importance

 

In Portugal where I used to live that has a declining population for example it might have less negative offsetting factors since new construction needs of more supply are limited to specific growing areas/cities

 

I guess it also depends just how restrictive it is too

 

On the whole it has a history of backfiring in many places where it's attempted tho

 

You know the guy from the young Turks??? The original guy and the one that always shows up at the end of the videos telling you to join a subscription as a member? He's such a progressive and even he is against rent controls

 

It would be a reach to say it can NEVER work. But I'm extremely skeptical of it given it's likely bad side effects

 

I think there's other stuff the Government can do to help affordability issues that carry significantly less risks like releasing land or offering cheap loans to home builders that only apply when it's affordable housing or rent purpose building such as my Province is doing now

 

Rent control is not something simply like redistributing some wealth via progressive taxes or making laws to prevent price gauging from some kind of monopoly industry run by a handful of large companies that as a result distort fair competition and proper prices reflecting supply and demand (like patented pharmaceuticals or tech industry that's dominated by just a handful of companies)

 

The rental market has many landlord owners in the market it is not a market plagued by monopolies and so prices to reflect real influences of supply and demand

 

Interfear with that and u get bad results

 

Price controls of any kind going against supply and demand fundamentals tend to backfire...

 

We saw the same in Venezuela. Government put price controls to prevent inflation and the result was shortage of products because stores couldn't charge what they needed to cover costs they actually had to pay with collapsing currency. Price controls don't help u if u don't even have enough of what u need available

 

Of course Venezuela is an extreme case u can't compare a rental market in a developed Nation to Venezuela's price controls on the same level. But I'm just trying to point out how direct management from the government by restricting prices just ends up restricting supply especially if there's already a shortage to begin with

 

Again, it is exactly what happened in my Province and now we're paying for that bad policy

 

[Shaney 5,515]

5 hours ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

Get two jobs save up like I did and buy a property to rent. 

But you have enough money to buy Sanders book at $30. Gimme a break. Also what kind of phone do you have is a it a flip phone or an iPhone? Asking for a friend who knows how to not starve while paying rent. 

Hey guess what bud, good for you. i've had to work two jobs to pay my rent and I have a cracked iPhone 6 that has fallen in water and I can't afford a new one. I have to work two jobs to pay for an apartment with a mice infestation and improper insulation. I got Sanders book because I donated $1 to his campaign and he was sending them to donators. 

It doesn't have to be this way for people. Using the fact that you 'worked hard' shouldn't be a justification that there shouldn't be a stronger social safety net. So let's not go there please, we all out here workin hard in a broken country.

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

The neoliberals in here literally defending our current system where no working class or low income people can afford their housing and living expenses together, let alone health insurance and all the rest. 

Absolutely ridiculous. 

This is why we need Medicare For All, $15 minimum wage, and tuition free college (like we used to) as it would drastically reduce many of these burdens and help people to get ahead with some of that burden reduced on everyday people. 

Everyday Americans work harder than almost anyone and get almost no where. How you can defend that and play it off as not an issue is despicable. 

If that's what you truly believe, then you need to switch to the Republican party. They love to blame the poor and mock them, so sounds like you'd really fit in with them. 

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

10 hours ago, Bae said:

Hey guess what bud, good for you. i've had to work two jobs to pay my rent and I have a cracked iPhone 6 that has fallen in water and I can't afford a new one. I have to work two jobs to pay for an apartment with a mice infestation and improper insulation. I got Sanders book because I donated $1 to his campaign and he was sending them to donators. 

It doesn't have to be this way for people. Using the fact that you 'worked hard' shouldn't be a justification that there shouldn't be a stronger social safety net. So let's not go there please, we all out here workin hard in a broken country.

If you have an apartment with mice infestation or any type of unlivable condition call code enforcement. A mice infestation is already against the law. What are you going to do, wait until Bernie gets elected then cry yourself to sleep when he can't get anything passed a Republican Senate. 

Girl you are working the problem backwards. 

[Shaney 5,515]

3 hours ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

If you have an apartment with mice infestation or any type of unlivable condition call code enforcement. A mice infestation is already against the law. What are you going to do, wait until Bernie gets elected then cry yourself to sleep when he can't get anything passed a Republican Senate. 

Girl you are working the problem backwards. 

I’m not. I’m working to finish a degree and working on creating my drag platform, but it sure would be nice to have a President who actually cared about making sure regular people were okay and doing well. Regardless of whether or not you think Sanders is going to be able to pass his policy, the reason I like him so much is that when he becomes President he’s not just going to stop rallying people on policy and bullshit everybody. He’s going to create pressure on politicians and allow more room for progressives to get into Congress. Sort of ranting now, but I don’t think anyone is expecting to get all these things immediately from a Sanders presidency. I’m not, it’s going to be hard. 

[Deagan 608]

3 hours ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

If you have an apartment with mice infestation or any type of unlivable condition call code enforcement. A mice infestation is already against the law. What are you going to do, wait until Bernie gets elected then cry yourself to sleep when he can't get anything passed a Republican Senate. 

Girl you are working the problem backwards. 

So what is the limit? How many houses can real estate companies own and what is the maximum price they can charge for rent? People need somewhere to live!

Rent control can do great things!

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

Just now, Deagan said:

So what is the limit? How many houses can real estate companies own and what is the maximum price they can charge for rent? People need somewhere to live!

Rent control can do great things!

It's also made things terrible in other countries. Keep reading the thread there are examples of other countries like Canada. 

[Deagan 608]

1 minute ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

It's also made things terrible in other countries. Keep reading the thread there are examples of other countries like Canada. 

Canada has 37.5 million inhabitants.. don't compare that to the 327.2 million living in the US..

Rent control by itself has not made anything terrible. Canada has a big immigrant settlement problem due to suburbanization and a lot of immigrants.. The US has other issues.. like not being able to afford a crazy rent in a city.

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

20 hours ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

National rent control. No mam.  I have a rental I like my income thanks. Don't mess with my wallet Sanders. I am so over this socialism.

Let's make all books free so no one can become millionaires off book sales. 

 

19 hours ago, JusKeepBreathin said:

Get two jobs save up like I did and buy a property to rent. 

But you have enough money to buy Sanders book at $30. Gimme a break. Also what kind of phone do you have is a it a flip phone or an iPhone? Asking for a friend who knows how to not starve while paying rent. 

How misrepresenting, misleading, and acting in bad faith these posts are. 

 

These and other posts by you in here look like were literally copied out of the Republican playbook what with the misrepresenting and fearmongering of socialism and outright blaming the poor for where there are. 

Just gonna leave this here since it's quite clear you don't notice the double standard between the rich and corporations on the one hand, and the working class and poor people on the other:

That quote couldn't be more accurate and pertinent today.