Sanders Outpaces Other 2020 Dems in Latino Fundraising Support

[PartySick 173,320]

40 minutes ago, AndyDWUW said:

 

I am not reading all that nor am I imterested in a Warren vs Sanders debate 

Y'all need to just accept that you're not changing anyone's mind here, stop putting so much effort into trying to. Not in a shady sense but you're wasting your time typing novels to me

When it comes to president, policies kind of take a back seat to other things in my mind. Congress is where laws are passed and both Bernie and Liz have shown they'd generally support, promote, and sign the same bills so flipping the senate is really the most important thing right now. Those two would effectively probably be exactly the same when 4/8 years is over. They'd sign the same bills, make the same foreign policy choices, nominate the same judges, etc.

But...

I have more faith in Warren's pragmatism and temperament. I think she is a better leader even if Bernie is the best preacher the left has atm. I also have more faith in her ability to compromise with Republicans, independents, and centrist Dems to get something done while I view Bernie as a rigid stone that won't budge so nothing will get done. So yay for him sticking to his guns but that won't get us anywhere

Also, don't take this the wrong way, but I don't see Bernie surviving two terms  if he's elected then he better proove me wrong but the guy literally had a heart attack during a primary campaign.

Tl;dr - her personality and leadership qualities puts her ahead of Bernie for me just like it put Hillary ahead in 2016. It's just a personal preference

Regardless of any of this, the most important thing is that whoever ends up being Trump's (or Pence's) opponent in the general has my enthusiastic support and vote. I hope we can all agree on that 

[Lion Heart 15,041]

BUT I WAS TOLD THEY WERE ALL (WHITE) BERNIE BROS?????? 

[PartySick 173,320]

9 minutes ago, Marilyn MonHoe said:

I mean earlier this year you called Bernie the "Trump of the Left" and then said "#Never Bernie crowd where y'all at?" That sounds a little more than wary

But anyways I'm happy that your position has changed

 

I change my mind a lot

Nah, Bernie is the left's Trump. A figure head for everything they stand for and an "outsider".

Trump is not a traditional Republican, he represents the brash, pissed off, and lowkey dumb blue collar white Americans that feel they're owed something. And maybe they have reasons to be pissed off but they direct the anger through Trump at people who don't deserve it. If they would understand why life is hard for them then they'd vote for Democrats

Bernie is not a traditional Democrat. He's only got the D next to his name to have a chance at winning the presidency  he represents a ton of young people and a lot of others who are disillusioned with partisan politics and generally annoyed at the Democratic establishment either because they seem them "as bad as the GOP" or just 'cause they don't think they're progressive enough.

I didn't mean Bernie was like Trump, I meant he represents to Liberals what Trump represents to Republican voters.

And I probably said #NeverBernie because I'm a drama queen that actually does change my mind about things depending on my mood  you guys should really just ignore me. If politics were pop music, I'd be part of the GP or a Katy Perry fan 

But my real, honest, overarching opinion is that Bernie's aight  his supporters annoy me sometimes 'cause they rarely realize we're generally on the same team, we just want a different captain, but they're tolerable  in this sad group of Dems, he's my second fave right after Liz, right before Harris then Pete and then way in the back, Biden. Barring something crazy happening, I don't see that changing before we vote for our candidate.

But I'm happy with whoever at this point as long as they're not Trump  I'll take a moderate Republican, I'm so desperate for Agolf Twitler to be GONE

[AndyDWUW 3,971]

27 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I am not reading all that nor am I imterested in a Warren vs Sanders debate 

Y'all need to just accept that you're not changing anyone's mind here, stop putting so much effort into trying to. Not in a shady sense but you're wasting your time typing novels to me

When it comes to president, policies kind of take a back seat to other things in my mind. Congress is where laws are passed and both Bernie and Liz have shown they'd generally support, promote, and sign the same bills so flipping the senate is really the most important thing right now. Those two would effectively probably be exactly the same when 4/8 years is over. They'd sign the same bills, make the same foreign policy choices, nominate the same judges, etc.

But...

I have more faith in Warren's pragmatism and temperament. I think she is a better leader even if Bernie is the best preacher the left has atm. I also have more faith in her ability to compromise with Republicans, independents, and centrist Dems to get something done while I view Bernie as a rigid stone that won't budge so nothing will get done. So yay for him sticking to his guns but that won't get us anywhere

Also, don't take this the wrong way, but I don't see Bernie surviving two terms  if he's elected then he better proove me wrong but the guy literally had a heart attack during a primary campaign.

Tl;dr - her personality and leadership qualities puts her ahead of Bernie for me just like it put Hillary ahead in 2016. It's just a personal preference

Regardless of any of this, the most important thing is that whoever ends up being Trump's (or Pence's) opponent in the general has my enthusiastic support and vote. I hope we can all agree on that 

Yea that’s her hefty baggage that will help Trump win, by oppressing the democratic vote (a la 2016) by exploiting and revealing all this to the masses. 

but here’s to hoping it won’t .. 🙃

[Marilyn MonHoe 11,011]

3 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I change my mind a lot

Nah, Bernie is the left's Trump. A figure head for everything they stand for and an "outsider".

Trump is not a traditional Republican, he represents the brash, pissed off, and lowkey dumb blue collar white Americans that feel they're owed something. And maybe they have reasons to be pissed off but they direct the anger through Trump at people who don't deserve it. If they would understand why life is hard for them then they'd vote for Democrats

Bernie is not a traditional Democrat. He's only got the D next to his name to have a chance at winning the presidency  he represents a ton of young people and a lot of others who are disillusioned with partisan politics and generally annoyed at the Democratic establishment either because they seem them "as bad as the GOP" or just 'cause they don't think they're progressive enough.

I didn't mean Bernie was like Trump, I meant he represents to Liberals what Trump represents to Republican voters.

And I probably said #NeverBernie because I'm a drama queen that actually does change my mind about things depending on my mood  you guys should really just ignore me. If politics were pop music, I'd be part of the GP or a Katy Perry fan 

But my real, honest, overarching opinion is that Bernie's aight  his supporters annoy me sometimes 'cause they rarely realize we're generally on the same team, we just want a different captain, but they're tolerable  in this sad group of Dems, he's my second fave right after Liz, right before Harris then Pete and then way in the back, Biden. Barring something crazy happening, I don't see that changing before we vote for our candidate.

But I'm happy with whoever at this point as long as they're not Trump  I'll take a moderate Republican, I'm so desperate for Agolf Twitler to be GONE

Yeah I can see that you’ve changed your mind, that‘s why I initially asked why you changed it 

I understand what you mean but if you’re going to make comparisons between them then you should say that they are both populists. Bernie is a left wing populist and Trump is a right wing populist. The difference is that Trump is a lying crook who tried to make himself out to be a non traditional Republican... but he is one. His methods are definitely different compared to regular Republicans but he really isn’t all that different. Just wanted to give you better terms to use so that you won’t be attacked by Bernie supporters 

Your comments about Bernie supporters are my exact sentiments on Warren supporters. It’s hard for me to understand why someone would support a progressive lite candidate when there is a stronger one with decades of consistent leftist sentiments but everyone is different I guess 

I will vote for whoever wins the Democratic nominee but I would never fault people that choose to not vote for said nominee or vote third party. It is the candidates job to secure the votes of the people, they are not entitled to anyone’s vote. That is the whole point of campaigning... to secure enough votes so that you win public office 

 

[Othon 34,299]

1 hour ago, PartySick said:

I am not reading all that nor am I imterested in a Warren vs Sanders debate 

Y'all need to just accept that you're not changing anyone's mind here, stop putting so much effort into trying to. Not in a shady sense but you're wasting your time typing novels to me

When it comes to president, policies kind of take a back seat to other things in my mind. Congress is where laws are passed and both Bernie and Liz have shown they'd generally support, promote, and sign the same bills so flipping the senate is really the most important thing right now. Those two would effectively probably be exactly the same when 4/8 years is over. They'd sign the same bills, make the same foreign policy choices, nominate the same judges, etc.

But...

I have more faith in Warren's pragmatism and temperament. I think she is a better leader even if Bernie is the best preacher the left has atm. I also have more faith in her ability to compromise with Republicans, independents, and centrist Dems to get something done while I view Bernie as a rigid stone that won't budge so nothing will get done. So yay for him sticking to his guns but that won't get us anywhere

Tl;dr - her personality and leadership qualities puts her ahead of Bernie for me just like it put Hillary ahead in 2016. It's just a personal preference

Regardless of any of this, the most important thing is that whoever ends up being Trump's (or Pence's) opponent in the general has my enthusiastic support and vote. I hope we can all agree on that 

Sanders' supporters annoy you because we always come correct, have done our research, know exactly what we're talking about, and focus on the candidate's policy positions and records rather than their superficial personalities (which mean absolutely nothing). I have never, not once, seen you engage with a Sanders supporter on substantive policy grounds, and it's clearly because you just can't do it. You've been challenged on dozens of occasions and you've invented this absolutely ridiculous rhetoric about her being "more pragmatic" to avoid having to legitimately engage with us. You've invented these false narratives and assigned them to both candidates so as to absolve yourself of having to do any real intellectual or ethical labor. 

Sanders and Warren have absolutely not indicated that they'd support or push the same bills (as evidenced by their respective proposals), and they're not even remotely similar on foreign policy. Only someone who knows absolutely nothing about the two candidates or is being intentionally obtuse would say something like that. How many times do we have to point to her support of the apartheid state facilitated by the Israeli government in Palestine? Why do you refuse to listen to anything we're saying?

This is why we get so frustrated with Warren supporters. There is absolutely no conceivable reason to vote for a less progressive candidate with a mediocre record and when we point out all of the real, substantive distinctions between the two, you either ignore them entirely or fall back on tired, debunked rhetoric.

And here's the thing: we're not on the same team. Yes, we vote for the Democratic party, but we're absolutely not on the same team. We do it out of an understanding that we don't currently have a better option, rather than out of some sort of team-mentality or superficial fealty to a corporate party apparatus that could care less whether we live or die. We're on the side of progress, you're on the side of the status quo. We're leftists, you're a liberal. You've deliberately decided to stand with the capitalist class, against the people of Palestine, against the multiple leftist leaders in South America that have endorsed Sanders, and against the citizens in the Middle East that Warren will almost certainly continue to bomb. We're standing in solidarity with marginalized people all around the world. We're trying to build a new global system that works for everyone built on collective solidarity. You're hooked on the tranquilizing drug of gradualism, at a time when the earth is hurtling towards climate disaster. We don't have time to listen to you people tell us that we can't build a better system. We're busy trying to build it ourselves.

For the love of god, get on board or get out of the way and let us attempt to do what you refuse to admit is possible. 

[Lilmonzter 2,864]

But I've to say you guys the main stream media is ghosting Bernie actually 

They barely cover him, while everyone else especially the strong fourth place Pete gets a lot of coverage. 

[Marilyn MonHoe 11,011]

22 minutes ago, Lilmonzter said:

But I've to say you guys the main stream media is ghosting Bernie actually 

They barely cover him, while everyone else especially the strong fourth place Pete gets a lot of coverage. 

Corporate media almost never covers Bernie fairly. Imagine if a moderate like  “strong fourth place Pete” or Biden had the most Latino contributions. There would be wall to wall coverage. 
 

When Bernie achieves this feat? Not a damn peep. And then people try to act dumb and say that there is no media bias against Bernie. Or maybe they aren’t really acting at all 

[PartySick 173,320]

1 minute ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

There is absolutely no conceivable reason to vote for a less progressive candidate

Other than not personally being as far left as you are? Or having little faith in the "more progressive" candidate's ability to compromise when needed to get real results? 

I've called myself a centrist before, it's not my fault America's political system is so skewed to the right that being just left of center makes me a "hardcore liberal" 

And you can make whatever assumptions you want about me, I really don't care  that's not from a malicious place, btw, I just couldn't care less about anyone's preconceived assumptions about me and my beliefs when they don't really even know who I am

16 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

We don't have time to listen to you people tell us that we can't build a better system. We're busy trying to build it ourselves.

I literally said to disregard my opinion in one of my posts  I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I don't even want to debate but y'all keep quoting me in every thread to tell me how wrong I am

If you and Bernie can wave a magic wand and make the US the democratic socialist wonderland where all fuel is renewable and everyone is college educated, fed, and healthy then do it already 'cause you sure won't be doing it with Bernie in the White House shouting at all those Republicans in senate who will laugh in his face for four or eight years, especially when the GOP takes back the senate in 2022 

Bottom line for the billionth time: You're not wrong, I agree with your stances BUT I'm not interested in throwing my vote behind purity when I believe it will cost real, tangible results towards something I believe in.

It could not be more simple.

And like I've said each time I rag on him, LET BERNIE PROVE ME WRONG. Please. If he wins, I hope I'm wrong.

Anyway, vote for Bernie if you want, he's a great option, I don't blame you  and I'll vote for Warren and then whoever the Democrats' nominee is.

Best of luck  I won't be responding to Bernie bro quotes anymore because I don't have time to sit here and worry about pissing off people I like otherwise and I'm not interested in repeating myself again and again 

2 minutes ago, Lilmonzter said:

But I've to say you guys the main stream media is ghosting Bernie actually 

They barely cover him, while everyone else especially the strong fourth place Pete gets a lot of coverage. 

It's a bit disheartening actually. I feel like even for all his support, he's barely actually talked about  he's one of the most popular politicians in the country and it's a realistic possibility that he could be our guy to go against Trump so "they" need to start pushing him as hard as they push Warren, Biden, and now Pete.

[Othon 34,299]

28 minutes ago, PartySick said:

If you and Bernie can wave a magic wand and make the US the democratic socialist wonderland where all fuel is renewable and everyone is college educated, fed, and healthy then do it already 'cause you sure won't be doing it with Bernie in the White House shouting at all those Republicans in senate who will laugh in his face for four or eight years, especially when the GOP takes back the senate in 2022 

Bottom line for the billionth time: You're not wrong, I agree with your stances BUT I'm not interested in throwing my vote behind purity when I believe it will cost real, tangible results towards something I believe in.

What is with conservative democrats and these "magic wand" and "purity" lines? Leftism is work, hard work, and the only way we even get close to enacting real change is with a leftist in the oval office actively normalizing leftism every single day, not some Brandeisian liberal granting concessions to Republicans that are going to unilaterally oppose literally anything she tries to get passed.  

"Progressive" centrism under Obama gave us Trump, killed millions of brown people in the Middle East, and led to the complete and utter collapse of Black wealth in America. We KNOW it doesn't work. No one on the left believes that all of our problems will magically end if Sanders gets elected. We'd just rather have someone in office that will actually fight for the policies we support rather than waffling when they receive criticism and bombing people in the Middle East. You're the one who's clinging to the myth of "realism" and "pragmatism" after the last 40 years of American politics completely disproved that utter lie. 

And "purity"? Choosing a candidate that won't facilitate Israel's murdering of Palestinians is "purity"? Choosing a candidate that actually wants to abolish ICE is "purity"? The only people who have anything to fear when it comes to these so-called "purity tests" are those that can't pass them. 

28 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Best of luck  I won't be responding to Bernie bro quotes anymore because I don't have time to sit here and worry about pissing off people I like otherwise and I'm not interested in repeating myself again and again 

You shouldn't be repeating yourself at all. You should be trying to engage with what we're saying substantively, but you never do that. It's all rhetoric. 

And the "bernie bro" thing... Seriously?  You act like we're being ridiculous for trying to engage with you in good faith and you pull that nonsense?

 

EDIT: And, as usual, you ignored all of the substantive policy distinctions between Sanders and Warren that I laid out in my last post.  I mean... It's almost parodic at this point.

[Morphine Prince 109,739]

@OG Gaga Stan Lawd! I can’t handle all the facts you’ve written in this thread! I can’t stand it! 

 

Yessssss

[Marilyn MonHoe 11,011]

8 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

@OG Gaga Stan Lawd! I can’t handle all the facts you’ve written in this thread! I can’t stand it! 

 

Yessssss

This is why in that other thread I named @OG Gaga Stan the Queen of Bernie Facts 

[PartySick 173,320]

2 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

You should be trying to engage with what we're saying substantively, but you never do that. It's all rhetoric

I don't want to engage with you in long, detailed debates about policy and substance 

One, I'm not interested in those conversations like I was before. I'm the political GP. It's like trying to argue about the subtext in a Lady Gaga video with someone who only knows a little bit of Poker Face's chorus.

Two, we don't even disagree about most things. Like I've said, you're right  idk what else you want

And three, you're all much more knowledgeable about the in's and out's of these detailed policies where as I really don't care to argue anything other than "in the grand scheme of things" or "vaguely" as you would put it  right now, I'm mostly worried about kicking out the douche that's kidnapping kids and putting them in cages.

It's the same reason I'm usually left with nothing to say in @Economy's threads even though I enjoy them  I say "eat the rich" and he gives me 27 reasons why "yes, eat the rich, but actually no and here's why".

I will never give you a satisfying debate and I'm not interested in even trying when you're clearly passionate enough about the subject to know everything while I just barely care enough to vote in local elections anymore 

Debate @Whispering. There's a Lizzard who could give you a challenge

7 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

And the "bernie bro" thing... Seriously?  You act like we're being ridiculous for trying to engage with you in good faith and you pull that nonsense?

Did I not say before that I don't use that term in a hateful way? It's stan lingo for politics to me  Bernie bros, Hillbots, Lizzards, all the good ones have one

[Whispering 18,865]

1 hour ago, Lilmonzter said:

But I've to say you guys the main stream media is ghosting Bernie actually 

They barely cover him, while everyone else especially the strong fourth place Pete gets a lot of coverage. 

This is ridiculous. I hear about Bernie on MSM just as much as any other candidate. At the beginning of the week, we heard some about state races. The past two days I’ve heard some about Bloomberg. That will pass, too. 

They barely cover anyone or anything but Trump right now. The whole state of California was burning and it maybe got two or three minutes an hour. Ninety per cent of MSM is the impeachment. They aren’t reporting on Democrats much at all, tbh.

[Othon 34,299]

Just now, PartySick said:

And three, you're all much more knowledgeable about the in's and out's of these detailed policies where as I really don't care to argue anything other than "in the grand scheme of things" or "vaguely" as you would put it  right now, I'm mostly worried about kicking out the douche that's kidnapping kids and putting them in cages.

It's the same reason I'm usually left with nothing to say in @Economy's threads even though I enjoy them  I say "eat the rich" and he gives me 27 reasons why "yes, eat the rich, but actually no and here's why".

I will never give you a satisfying debate and I'm not interested in even trying when you're clearly passionate enough about the subject to know everything while I just barely care enough to vote in local elections anymore 

...Then why don't you at least give us some credit and listen to us with an open mind when we make the case that Sanders is a better choice?! Why are you mindlessly voting for Warren when people that you openly admit know more than you are telling you that you're making a mistake? You realize how ridiculous that sounds, right? 

You're outright admitting that we know more than you do and you still pretend that we're naive children that don't understand the way in which the ins and outs of American political system works? That we believe in magic wands? 

I'm not trying to have some sort of debate. I'm trying to make you acknowledge that to vote for Warren is to vote for dead Palestinians, on top of a whole host of other atrocious things. That "I'm mostly worried about kicking out the douche that's kidnapping kids and putting them in cages" line really says it all: "progressive" liberals like Warren do those things too! Obama killed countless brown children in the Middle East with drones! He ALSO put kids in cages on the border! Sanders and his supporters are trying to build a global, leftist movement to make sure that that sort of thing never happens again, to elevate workers and those that live in poverty. The leftist leaders of other nation are actively, openly rooting for him because they believe he can help build that global movement.

Doing the bare minimum, picking a candidate because you like their personality more than the more progressive option, grasping at some sort of rhetorical flourish you can throw out when people challenge you on it and then checking out to talk about pop music isn't enough.