Sam Smith changes their pronouns to they/them

[LM 4,032]

8 hours ago, derpmonster said:

And @geopang who reacted to that

False

Talk to a doctor or a geneticist. Please. Y'all don't understand biology or sex. Your conjecture is incorrect. 

Thats actually true man. If you try to correct me give me some evidence to back it up otherwise its just your opinion that I dont really care about

[derpmonster 22,412]

5 minutes ago, LM said:

And intersex people are a male or a female, that's a fact

Wrong. Give me your source that says intersex people have a binary sex (male or female). You're the one making that claim. 

2 hours ago, Kylo Ren said:

there's 4 more characters in that word since yesterday? it's getting out of hand.

Is this a joke? Most people just write LGBTQ anyway where Q encompasses everything other than LGBT. There's nothing "out of hand". No one is forcing you to write 4 extra letters. Q suffices. 

[LM 4,032]

2 hours ago, derpmonster said:

Wrong. Give me your source that says intersex people have a binary sex (male or female). You're the one making that claim. 

https://transitioning.pressbooks.com/chapter/chapter-3/#footnote-28-11

"Intersex individuals are still born male or female, even if their anatomy is not considered to be typically male or female"

"Sex is a functional biological norm, and individuals can deviate from this norm in many different ways. … And so, being a male isn’t whether you are XY, it is whether you are supposed to be XY; it is whether this is what would have been the biologically normal result had the process that determines sex worked as designed"

here u go. Intersex people are not a third sex, they are a male or a female. 

 

[ear condom 964]

I thought I'd just throw in my two cents'

My perspective may sound a bit off-the-wall. It is also hard to explain, to put into words ( + non native English speaker, sorry for the mistakes).

I think the belief that « you are your body » lays at the heart of the pronoun-thing problem. If you think – probably unconsciously – that you are your body (and thus your genitals/chromosome…) , it is quite obvious that you’re gonna say «  we should refer to someone as he/she, depending on their genitals/chromosome…. ».

My personal point of view is :  you are not a physical envelope and you do not have a soul. You are a soul. And you HAVE a body. Just like if I HAVE a red car or a small dog, I wouldn’t like to be referred to as «  red car » or «  small dog ». And it really has nothing to do with religion. Even an atheist trans person will know exactly what I’m talking about when I say that we (our very and deepest essence) are way more than an earthly body.

Moreover, if you can see/notice/touch/observe/ear/feel (…) something , it automatically means that this thing is external/outside of you. That this thing is not « you ». Just like you aren’t your thoughts , you (your very essence) are the observer of your thoughts. You can observe them. You can see and touch your body. You can see this table and this plane in the sky. You can see your brother playing in the garden. So all those things can’t be «  you ».  

Can you feel/observe/see/ear your soul/spirit/essence/whatever you want to call it ?? Personally, I can’t ; because that’s not external/outside of me. That’s  who I am, the «  real me on the inside ».  It’s not something here in time and space (like your body).

Your essence/soul/spirit (…) isn’t a he or a she ; male or female ; they/them… That’s why it is up to you to define the way you want to be referred to as, what feels right for you. The paucity of the human language clearly doesn’t help. A word/pronoun will never depicts and reflects precisely your soul/spirit (….). You have to choose the pronoun that comes closest to the way you feel.

( I also agree with the societal construction of gender theory).

I know it’s gonna sound weird to some of you and I respect that. I’m not saying that this is the ultimate truth applicable to all human beings. It’s just my belief.

Love xxx

[Electric Mary 1,051]

I Came to this thread thinking everyone e was going to defend this "nonsense" ..... Thank you for giving me hope 

You are either a man or a female....and that applies even for trans people (they identify with one of the two genders) thinking you're both...or not even one of those two....is nonsense.  Stop thinking that just because u like to wear high heels and look feminine you're not a man, because you are, you're simply running away from a social construct, and there's nothing wrong with that. 

[geopang 4,831]

54 minutes ago, LM said:

https://transitioning.pressbooks.com/chapter/chapter-3/#footnote-28-11

"Intersex individuals are still born male or female, even if their anatomy is not considered to be typically male or female"

"Sex is a functional biological norm, and individuals can deviate from this norm in many different ways. … And so, being a male isn’t whether you are XY, it is whether you are supposed to be XY; it is whether this is what would have been the biologically normal result had the process that determines sex worked as designed"

here u go. Intersex people are not a third sex, they are a male or a female. 

 

Don’t even bother. Many users on here don’t like truth or science. I applaud you for sharing the facts though!

[derpmonster 22,412]

2 hours ago, LM said:

"Sex is a functional biological norm, and individuals can deviate from this norm in many different ways. … And so, being a male isn’t whether you are XY, it is whether you are supposed to be XY; it is whether this is what would have been the biologically normal result had the process that determines sex worked as designed"

I checked the source. It's a WordPress blog. Not even CLOSE to the scientific consensus. You and @geopang really thought you had "facts", sistahs.

This is an opinion essay that even misrepresents arguments made by the intersex society.

[misunderstood 8,736]

Y'all still arguing? 

[LM 4,032]

1 hour ago, derpmonster said:

I checked the source. It's a WordPress blog. Not even CLOSE to the scientific consensus. You and @geopang really thought you had "facts", sistahs.

This is an opinion essay that even misrepresents arguments made by the intersex society.

"People who have intersex conditions have anatomy that is not considered typically male or female" that's from Intersex society of NA and as you can see, they don't think intersex is a third sex.

http://www.isna.org/faq/gender_assignment 

They literally say here "Why shouldn’t children with intersex be raised in a “third gender”? We advocate assigning a boy or girl gender because intersex is not, and will never be, a discrete biological category"

All your arguments are that the arguments made by the intersex society are misrepresented, but you did not even bother to say how or where. 

I'm still waiting for your source of the "scientific consensus", because all you did up to this point is that you just presented your opinions with no evidence and just tried to discredit mine, once again with no evidence.

This is definition of WHO "Intersex is defined as a congenital anomaly of the reproductive and sexual system." = no third sex here sis (https://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html#Gender Assignment of Intersex Infants and Children)

Facts were served puta

[rasclautmangos 2,740]

I think we just need to come up with new pronouns. I'm having trouble with using their, them when referring to one person in a sentence.

[ear condom 964]

@ science-side-of-GGD ; 

please keep in mind that what appears to be true one day is not necessarily true the next day. Like we all know, it was totally normal to think, at a time in history,  that Earth was flat for instance.  (yes this is the most common and easiest exemple; I know). And there are still contradictions between scientists themselves on top of that. We didn't even make it to a "universal truth"  accepted by all yet ; a universal truth that would probably become outdated sooner or later anyway.

It would be quite foolish for someone to say that they understood it all and have the ultime truth at this time. 
We truly are  - as a species - just babies. 

It takes 2 seconds to admit that most of us are just picking the arguments that fit our predefined mindset/agenda. 

So, in the meantime, why not just showing kindness and acceptation...??  It really costs nothing

[MelbHawker 6,362]

There's certainly a lot of strong opinions in this thread.. some that are laced with ignorance similar to past attitudes towards gay people.

I've always found those who are so outwardly against / not receptive to cases like this simply lack any knowledge over what being non-binary actually is. It simply means that in the depths of a person's soul, they do not feel that they are male or female, so they simply live their life as not identifying with either gender. 

In Sam's case - I'm happy for them, I guess. The one frustration I have is that having been to their shows and followed their career for some time, it's always been 'as a gay man' - that's always been the narrative over the years. Each to their own regarding their journey, and I'm all about 'live, and let live' when it comes to life.. but if you know you're non-binary, why on earth would you train your entire fanbase / shove the whole 'gay man' thing down their throats? It might've been because he felt pressure to conform to the norm, or because he was still confused.. I guess only those closest to him know. 

I hope this revelation educates a few more people as to how different life can be for the person next to them - and how normal it is to be genderless. 

[OBEY 57,107]

On 9/13/2019 at 11:55 AM, Autumn said:

they them is a genderless pronoun though...

Not in French.

They = Ils for men and Elles for women

[OBEY 57,107]

People get mad at others misgendering their dogs and cats and insist on IT'S A HE!!! IT'S A SHE!!!  but then when a human wants to be called X they laugh and won't allow it   

[Dex 117]

On 9/13/2019 at 6:58 PM, NewUsername said:

Off all places, this is how people react on GAGADAILY?

It should tell you something: That asking every single person to change how they use their language around you is more absurd than a meat dress.

 

On 9/13/2019 at 7:13 PM, TheQueenLG said:

 

When someone identifies with 'he, him, his' pronouns, they are placed within a social construct and are expected by society to have masculine traits. 

If he feels shame over his (lack of)masculinity, that is his problem entirely and we shouldn't have to pander to him. Reminder that there is no evidence whatsoever that people are born gay/dysphoric.