whore 11,447 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Even as someone who wasn't a survivor, the scene did make me uncomfortable, knowing that was exactly what she was referencing. I was immediately sad for any survivor who may also be a Madonna fan that would stumble upon this video and experience PTSD from it. The video definitely made me cry though, and it had power and gave me a better understanding of the song, but it was an uncomfortable scene to watch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Charlie said: Anyone that is trying to silence this survivor is no better than the shooter himself has he massacred 49 people, injured 53 others, and scared many others with internal wounds. A tad much, no? If we're happy someone's spreading awareness about the issue of gun control, how can we be just as bad as someone who displays exactly what we want to fight against 5 minutes ago, Charlie said: Madonna used this situation as a prop. I still have not seen ONE good argument explaining why/how this is so Sounds to me like some people are just trying to claim all discourse floating around about this subject. For survivors, that's logical and it happens very often. People quickly descend into the "you will never understand" bubble after a trauma, and that's natural. But the problem here is: Madonna didn't make a video about the Pulse shooting. She made a video about gun control, and Pulse was only a minor inspiration (as she says in her interviews: the club setting was mostly to point out that we should even fear mass violence at places that are supposed to be fun now). She also included her own biographical experience with gun violence so I find the criticism that's there very egocentric and shortsighted tbh. If she tried to make a video about Pulse specifically and made tons of inappropriate statements about it, ok. But this is literally just a woman who wants people to take gun control seriously. Sorry but no, I won't defend anyone who tries to take that issue and make it all about them. That's the LAST ****ing thing we need right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LateToCult 40,920 Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, LouiseVeronica said: She does have the #1 album in America and debuted with WW sales of like 220k, so she does have some reach. And if she thought this video would result in more record sales, she would have released it before the album dropped, not a week after. CNN and many other news outlets are talking about the video, so I think she is reaching some people and making a difference. 3 minutes ago, Didymus said: Ok but that also sounds like what people say about taking any active part in politics "You won't change anything anyway so why bother?" It's possible this won't change anything but that does not automatically make it a vanity project Those two things are completely unrelated. That’s not what I’m saying at all. What I’m saying is that she’s using a dated method and sticking to it knowing full well it’s not gonna do anything. Why should everyone praise her for that? Taylor Swift released a music video with a political message but backed it up by asking people to sign a petition. This started a real conversation and had a real outcome. It’s 2019 and I think the bar should be a little bit higher than just doing something in a music video. 1 minute ago, Vegas said: Ridiculous. But hey, this is what Madonna wanted, to raise the conversations around the topic. So props to her. She raised the conversation around her. Not gun violence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM 4,067 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Charlie said: Anyone that is trying to silence this survivor is no better than the shooter himself has he massacred 49 people, injured 53 others, and scared many others with internal wounds. By your logic we should not talk about 9/11, the terrorist attack in Paris, London etc.? That's just wrong sis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 minute ago, LateToCult said: That’s not what I’m saying at all. What I’m saying is that she’s using a dated method and sticking to it knowing full well it’s not gonna do anything. Why should everyone praise her for that? It's also 2019 and people shouldn't be pampered omg this is a serious issue. If you're saying Madonna should do more than the average politician you're asking a bit much The description on YouTube contains: This is your wake up call. Gun violence disproportionately affects children, teenagers and the marginalized in our communities. Honor the victims and demand GUN CONTROL. NOW. Volunteer, stand up, donate, reach out. Wake up and insist on common-sense gun safety legislation. Innocent lives depend on it. Join me in supporting the following organizations: https://everytownresearch.org/ https://marchforourlives.com/ https://www.gaysagainstguns.net/ https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/ https://www.hrc.org/ https://www.thetaskforce.org/ https://transequality.org/ http://www.ncadv.org/ https://www.onepulseforamerica.com/ https://ceasefireusa.org/ https://marshap.org/ That's eleven organizations. People who are genuinely inspired by the video might just inform themselves and get involved. If people don't get involved because they can't show their support by clicking one petition link (if it's not too long at least, 'cause boring) then that's just more proof of our fundamental apathy I guess Gaga shouldn't have made BTW either and just had to become a politician. Nope. Artists do inspire people. It might be less easy to translate into numbers, clicks and views, but their influence can be very real. And Madonna should be applauded for at least trying more than 99% of us are on a daily basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, LateToCult said: She raised the conversation around her. Not gun violence. How lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maleficent 6 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Pulse was not the first/only shooting in a nightclub. Madonna wasn’t citing that event specially, she was making a statement about gun violence—she also used imagery from an Arizona School Shooting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANVEEROY 61,291 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 The only issue I am acknowledging that she could have contact with the victims - to get more perspective. It's a process which a filmmaker, writer or artist follow to make the work more valid and transparent. But, raising questions about Madonna’s intention is just a blunt example of hatred. Sorry, but the issue really needs to be addressed and M did! Stream Kylie-Janet Discographies! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LateToCult 40,920 Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Didymus said: How lol Umm, she brought widespread coverage to the Equality Act and put pressure on a Tennessee senator to to acknowledge that hundreds of thousands of people are urging him to support it. 12 minutes ago, Didymus said: It's also 2019 and people shouldn't be pampered omg this is a serious issue. If you're saying Madonna should do more than the average politician you're asking a bit much The description on YouTube contains: This is your wake up call. Gun violence disproportionately affects children, teenagers and the marginalized in our communities. Honor the victims and demand GUN CONTROL. NOW. Volunteer, stand up, donate, reach out. Wake up and insist on common-sense gun safety legislation. Innocent lives depend on it. Join me in supporting the following organizations: https://everytownresearch.org/ https://marchforourlives.com/ https://www.gaysagainstguns.net/ https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/ https://www.hrc.org/ https://www.thetaskforce.org/ https://transequality.org/ http://www.ncadv.org/ https://www.onepulseforamerica.com/ https://ceasefireusa.org/ https://marshap.org/ That's eleven organizations. People who are genuinely inspired by the video might just inform themselves and get involved. If people don't get involved because they can't show their support by clicking one petition link (if it's not too long at least, 'cause boring) then that's just more proof of our fundamental apathy I guess Gaga shouldn't have made BTW either and just had to become a politician. Nope. Artists do inspire people. It might be less easy to translate into numbers, clicks and views, but their influence can be very real. And Madonna should be applauded for at least trying more than 99% of us are on a daily basis. That’s literally the bare minimum. If she really wanted to use her star power to bring awareness to this cause she could have gone to the March 4 Our Lives. She could have at least acknowledged the Pulse shooting in a way that didn’t make it about her like the guy pointed out. Releasing a video that you know will bring more attention to you than the cause while you’re pushing an album isn’t doing anything actually supportive. The BTW example is very different. 2011 was not 2019. Gay marriage hadn’t even been legalized yet and Gaga was calling for equality outside of her music by going to Washington DC. The song itself was politically moving because it forced radios to spread her message of acceptance to millions of people. The number 1 song in the country talked about gay and trans people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, LateToCult said: Releasing a video that you know will bring more attention to you than the cause while you’re pushing an album isn’t doing anything actually supportive. I still don't believe that's the case though lol. I agree that she could've done more but I'm never one to say artists should do more because that same thing can be demanded of all of us tbh I'm definitely not sticking my neck out for politics even though I have a lot of opinions about it. I don't think Madonna should be praised as some kind of hero or revolutionary but she made a great video that might be a good stepping stone for a lot of people to be more aware about the issue. I don't see why we should also take that away from her Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie 246 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 33 minutes ago, LM said: By your logic we should not talk about 9/11, the terrorist attack in Paris, London etc.? That's just wrong sis I’d be happy to define what a “prop” is — but I don’t want to diminish common intelligence. I’d be happy to define what “talking about” is — but I don’t want to limit styles of communication. WE SHOULD be talking about gun violence, but “shooting up” models or actors in a studio in NYC or LA — I think that’s fundamentally wrong. It was a gross misrepresentation and style to inspire dialogue. “Art” pushes the envelope, this wasn’t art. It’s diminishing experiences of survivors and those people killed in the worst terrorist attack since 9/11 and worst hate crime against LGBTQ individuals period. It’s disgusting what she did and I don’t support it. fav song: lady haha — no floodz ft adele Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie 246 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 42 minutes ago, Didymus said: A tad much, no? If we're happy someone's spreading awareness about the issue of gun control, how can we be just as bad as someone who displays exactly what we want to fight against I still have not seen ONE good argument explaining why/how this is so Sounds to me like some people are just trying to claim all discourse floating around about this subject. For survivors, that's logical and it happens very often. People quickly descend into the "you will never understand" bubble after a trauma, and that's natural. But the problem here is: Madonna didn't make a video about the Pulse shooting. She made a video about gun control, and Pulse was only a minor inspiration (as she says in her interviews: the club setting was mostly to point out that we should even fear mass violence at places that are supposed to be fun now). She also included her own biographical experience with gun violence so I find the criticism that's there very egocentric and shortsighted tbh. If she tried to make a video about Pulse specifically and made tons of inappropriate statements about it, ok. But this is literally just a woman who wants people to take gun control seriously. Sorry but no, I won't defend anyone who tries to take that issue and make it all about them. That's the LAST ****ing thing we need right now. Wait so Madonna shooting a video of a bunch of actors isn’t too much? But calling out people for trying to silence survivors. I don’t think so. fav song: lady haha — no floodz ft adele Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouiseVeronica 426 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Thank God for Madonna Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie 246 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 If you think that cultural appropriation exists, by using cultures, identities, and stories for personal or professional advancement — look no further than this video. It appropriated an event by style and storytelling expression. No one wins, she’s a terrible artist for green lighting it. End of discussion for me. Carry on. In the words of Madonna “it’s reductive” — “look it up” fav song: lady haha — no floodz ft adele Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBatman 951 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Charlie said: If you think that cultural appropriation exists, by using cultures, identities, and stories for personal or professional advancement — look no further than this video. It appropriated an event by style and storytelling expression. No one wins, she’s a terrible artists for green lighting it. End of discussion for me. Carry on. In the words of Madonna “it’s reductive” — “look it up” I suggest keeping away from any and all serious art. Find something colorful and easily digestible, maybe something directed at the 10 and under set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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