Vatican: Non-binary gender is fictitious

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, davflz said:

1. I think of gender as a social construct that is partially influenced by biological sex. So most societies have the roles of a "man" and a "woman" because they recognized the distinctive sexes male & female. But there is more to it. When you think of a woman, you don't just think of someone with a vagina and XX chromosomes, do you? You also think of sterotypically feminine things such as long hair, dresses, makeup, shaved legs, high heels, etc. Those things however obviously are not rooted in biology and are just socially constructed ideas. And all of these expectations that play a huge role into what "gender" is.

2. There is a difference between rejecting social norms and actually not identifying with your gender. Non-binary people aren't just girls who like having short hair or something. They actually feel a deeper rooted discomfort with their assigned gender (for multiple reasons) and can just live more comfortable outside the binary. To most NB people their gender indenty is something deeply rooted and not just a label to put on yourself for not conforming to social standards.

3. Intersex people are proof that within biological sex there is a grey area and not just male and female. If you translate that knowledge to gender identity, non-binary people make a lot of sense actually. If there are people who literally can't be classified as male or female from a biological standpoint, why wouldn't that also suggest that there are brains that aren't coded 100% male or female. Why would this fluidity of biology only affect chromosomes and genitalia, but not a persons brain and psychology?

1- Yes I do agree with this.

2- I get why they dont want to say they are females because then society will question why they are not a stereotypical female. But that does not mean there is other genders. Just say I am none binary without having all these genders and asking for people to call you they or other pronouns.

But I do respect none binary people and support them

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, NewUsername said:

 

Sex = biologically determined, either male or female. Plus the grey-zone = intersex people
Gender = how you feel, identify. Gender is a spectrum. For most people their sex and their gender coincide: male that feels like a male, female that feels like a female. BUT, given that's it's a spectrum (i.e. non binary) people can feel anywhere on the scale from male to female.

Just like sexuality is a spectrum. To put it simply, you can like women 100%, men 0% or the other way around; women 50% men 50%; women 30% men 70% or the other way around and so on.

A lot of things in nature are spectrums tbh.

I already answered that in the comment you quoted me on

[NewUsername 11,805]

1 minute ago, benKo said:

If it is how you say it, gender is pretty much irrelevant to the law. There have always been men who are more feminine then others. So what? They still go to the mens bathroom and are men infront of the law.

In this case I don't understand the discussion. It's nothing new, that there are different personalities.

It is relevant when people are being discriminated, hell being murdered because of it.

+ Funny how you mention bathroom, with the whole bathroom bill situation...

[NewUsername 11,805]

4 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

1- Yes I do agree with this.

2- I get why they dont want to say they are females because then society will question why they are not a stereotypical female. But that does not mean there is other genders. Just say I am none binary without having all these genders and asking for people to call you they or other pronouns.

But I do respect none binary people and support them

The biggest discussion here was about if non binary exists tbh, not about all the different names for different genders.

Also, you can't really say "don't ask people to call you they or other pronouns" and then go on by saying "but I do respect non binary people and support them". I hope you get that. It's like saying the typical "I'm not racist, but ..."

4 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

I already answered that in the comment you quoted me on

I don't quite see how.

[SHALLOW 16,469]

I couldn't care less tbh. I know how i feel and i don't need anyone to tell me that's not true or that i'm mentally ill. 

Why do we gotta tell each other how to live? 

[MyQueen 2,409]

Stop fu....children for a start

[SHALLOW 16,469]

Anyway i'm always shocked at the ignorance that i find in this kind of threads. Y'all talk without knowing s*** 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, NewUsername said:

The biggest discussion here was about if non binary exists tbh, not about all the different names for different genders.

Also, you can't really say "don't ask people to call you they or other pronouns" and then go on by saying "but I do respect non binary people and support them". I hope you get that. It's like saying the typical "I'm not racist, but ..."

I don't quite see how.

I respect them meaning I believe they should have the freedom to do whatever they want even if I dont believe  none binary is real. None binary does not exist, they are just women or men who dont comply or feel comfortable with the social construct og their gender. 

[davflz 3,293]

7 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

I respect them meaning I believe they should have the freedom to do whatever they want even if I dont believe  none binary is real. None binary does not exist, they are just women or men who dont comply or feel comfortable with the social construct og their gender. 

but the thing is that no gender is "real". It's all just arbitrary labels we came up with.

People who don't feel comfortable with a male or female identity simply use the term "non-binary" as a description of themselves. They give themselves a name so they can communicate their feelings to the world. We need and use language as a tool to communicate concepts to each other, so it makes sense that gender-non-conforming people have a term to accurately represent them.

It would be so unnecessary complicated if we always had to use terms like "people-who-don't-identify-with-being-male-or-female" whenever we talk about them lol

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, davflz said:

but the thing is that no gender is "real". It's all just arbitrary labels we came up with.

People who don't feel comfortable with a male or female identity simply use the term "non-binary" as a description of themselves. They give themselves a name so they can communicate their feelings to the world. We need and use language as a tool to communicate concepts to each other, so it makes sense that gender-non-conforming people have a term to accurately represent them.

It would be so unnecessary complicated if we always had to use terms like "people-who-don't-identify-with-being-male-or-female" whenever we talk about them lol

I simply dont talk to them because I cant use "them" even if I tried unless they are none binary that are not offended if I call them by their sex pronoun by mistake. 

 I dont believe gender is a social contract if you are not a stereotypical woman, you are just that.

[JazzGa 14,654]

1 hour ago, AlvariusFlame said:

What is exactly what society defines?

 

I mean. We're animals there are only two genders on this kingdom. The only thing what society defines is the name, male-female in English, macho-hembra Spanish etc. Anything else is fictional.

 

Unless you are a plant but... hey! they're also male-female at the same time. Hermafroditisme.  

 

You don't have to  debunk the nature/biology rules just because you can accept your gender, just because you can't accept you born that way.

 

But you can call yourself wherever you want, But still what you really are.

But that's the thing, dude. Biology shows there are more than two genital configurations. It's a myth that "science" and "nature" only creates males and females. Nature creates ambiguous, intersex people quite frequently. It's society that hides this information from us and encourages us to all fit in to one group or the other. 

[JazzGa 14,654]

44 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

I respect them meaning I believe they should have the freedom to do whatever they want even if I dont believe  none binary is real. None binary does not exist, they are just women or men who dont comply or feel comfortable with the social construct og their gender. 

What. about. intersex people. What if you were born with a clitoris, testicles, and you developed facial hair and breasts? What if you have two X chromosomes AND a Y chromosome? What gender should you go in Mr Nature? This is why we need to create a place for people who don't fit in to the male or female boxes. They exist and are born every day. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Satans Ex Wife said:

What. about. intersex people. What if you were born with a clitoris, testicles, and you developed facial hair and breasts? What if you have two X chromosomes AND a Y chromosome? What gender should you go in Mr Nature? This is why we need to create a place for people who don't fit in to the male or female boxes. They exist and are born every day. 

Intersex people do choose the sex they want and transition into it. Also, intersex are an extreme rare case. Intersex is also between male and female, not third genders.

But yes we dont need to create a place for people who dont fit any gender

[JazzGa 14,654]

1 minute ago, Faysalaaa said:

Intersex people do choose the sex they want and transition into it. Also, intersex are an extreme rare case. Intersex is also between male and female, not third genders.

But yes we dont need to create a place for people who dont fit any gender

They don't all want to transition into one box or the other. How can we create a place for people who don't fit any gender, when some like yourself think that even intersex people will all want to go into one gender or the other? Transitioning and trying to fit into a "male" or "female" box doesn't work for everyone, like the older sibling in this article:

Intersex is also a lot more common than people are led to believe. 

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/06/10/family-speaks-out-for-intersex-girl-after-violent-attack

We can't accept people if we don't accommodate them. 

[Sepsami 21,057]

1 hour ago, Faysalaaa said:

I respect them meaning I believe they should have the freedom to do whatever they want even if I dont believe  none binary is real. None binary does not exist, they are just women or men who dont comply or feel comfortable with the social construct og their gender. 

Non-binary does exist because there are people whose identities don't match up with the limited gender binary that exists. It's really that simple.