What exactly is ARTPOP and what did Gaga want to achieve?

[Bradley 59,689]

45 minutes ago, ImTired said:

But did they buy the album on iTunes? 

I'm not sure if you're talking about ARTPOP or Joanne, but at least we know both are certified at least platinum in the US.

[Ziggy 12,355]

2 hours ago, imnotyourbabe10 said:

At SXSW, one of my favorite Gaga performances, the line "F**k you pop music, this is ARTPOP!" says it all.  Along with what others have posted (reverse Warhol. every icon, pop sucks the tits of art). 

The song ARTPOP itself details it well, too. 

I realize it was a rough time for her but I also think she did a great job at "queering" pop music, experimenting with different sounds (J&D) and giving "the man"/normative pop a nice big F.U.

That's a really good way of phrasing it "queering pop music" because I do think that that was the end goal. She wanted her music, specifically her pop, to go places and express more of her than it had before. She wanted it to be a celebration of vacuousness taken to a maximalist almost ridiculous degree and then do what she'd been doing since TFM and attach more visual and performance art to it to say something. She'd kept being told what pop was and this was her, again, saying "you don't know pop; I revolutionized pop, I know pop." There's a lot of hubris and ambition in that, but I think musically she pulled it off. I think where she struggled was communicating the performance and visual art side of things because what she needed to do was drip those performances in hedonism and irony and parody, but Gaga being Gaga, she takes things VERY seriously to the point where she couldn't communicate her intent (that and once the drama started, she was massively depressed).

Essentially, my read of ARTPOP was that she wanted to use the Gaga vehicle (pop) and ruthlessly attack it with high art conceptualizations which only sort of worked because she *is* Gaga and she had already been attacking pop with her sound. It felt like maybe her efforts were just a bit mistargeted. She wanted to say that "Gaga is every icon, you can't put her in a box" by attacking the image of Gaga before that, but no one was publicly putting her in a box so it felt a bit muddled.

But back to queering pop, ARTPOP is far and away her queerest album to date. To date. Venus and Donatella are drag staples in the shows I've seen, Applause basically was as well. The music was to go places and it did for the most part! It was her parody of pop in many ways that was a bit muddled by her also taking it so seriously in very Gaga fashion. I think we fans get it, but to those not ardently writing think pieces on her, that was not the best communicated concept for a Top 40 album lololol

[insight 2,465]

I think she hasn't figured out herself to this day what ARTPOP actually means. 

[Bling 31,579]

5 hours ago, MrDarkGa said:

I dont think we will ever know what it set out to achieve, or what the original concept she had wanted to accomplish. Its always been the "what a sad shame" album for me because she had been planning for it since 2012 and likely had a really good concept she couldnt develop due to the ambitiousness or didnt have time to with the rushed label deadline.

I have always wondered if the concept of ART+POP was simply too difficult to pull off as it was combining a largely visual medium with an audio medium. Technically, all music (inc. Pop) can be ARTPOP as its the musician's artistic creation. But this cant be the theme as its a cop-out. I dont really see what she could have done with it other than go really Björk experimental. What we got simply isnt up to much at all. It isnt the underrated album and it doesnt deserve more as it didnt offer enough in the first place. It underperformed in terms of sales and lost a lot of OG fans because it deserved to. It didnt deliver.

I think that to finish up with, it was a case of getting it out and over with and trying to make passable lemonade with really dated lemons. The common consensus of the theme is "it could mean anything" which to me is a very weak blanket defense for an album that patently didnt have a clear goal. I dont think she intended it to be as limited and immature an album as it was nor for it to have the previous year's sound that pop was moving away from. I reckon she was well and truly over it upon its release.

More things went wrong with it than things that went right, so much so it almost resulted in her quitting the game and then caused an extensive (but incredibly successful) image overhaul. I dont think she was called pretentious for being artsy - I think she was called pretentious simply because she was. She was trying to make the album appear better and more flashy than it was, and I think she knew it was bad herself but her label were likely pressuring her to keep the hype going even though it was thoroughly derailed. She was also borderline insufferable in this era, likely because she just didnt know what she was doing or simply didnt care about it enough to try and figure it out.

I agree with you 100% and I have to add that I think a lot of people don't take into account the fact that she FIRED her manager. Judging from her comments about the Fame perfume and a couple other things, it seems she was forced by Troy Carter to do certain things and I honestly think that a lot of the (over)hype of the album was her passive aggressively acting out against him. When you hear her comments about social media and the internet now, it really makes me wonder if the whole app thing was Troy pushing her and he wanted to spend more money on stuff like that rather than her art and visuals. 

Also the "when the artist takes full control of the icon" statement had always seemed like a big FU to Troy. This makes me think the whole SXSW performance, the *ehem* racy DWUW video, etc were all Gaga acting out because she was unhappy with Troy. And I think she was just in an awkward situation because she wanted to please her fans but her manager sort of had her hands tied. I remember being SO HYPED for this album and the projects/videos she teased and it just kept disappointing/underdelivering to be honest (I love the album btw)

Lastly, I think the biggest disappointment was mainly the lack of visuals for such an artistic and experimental project. You could tell she really wanted to deliver but again she was held back and it's a shame because she had been building such a collection of amazing videos. Also, for some reason I have always thought that sonically, the final album was released as more what the label wanted than her. She's commented about producers auto-tuning her voice and if you compare any other Gaga albums tracks to ARTPOP, the ARTPOP track will always be rougher, louder, and less of an earworm. I don't say that as a critic, I've played the album for some of my music production friends who are obsessed with music and they mainly couldn't finish about half the songs. Theres something about the disjointedness of it all. What I'm saying is that even with experimental pop music, there's a formula for how things sound (if you want it to be pleasing to the listener) and for example, the Venus chorus, at first listen is like wtf where did that come from. Let's not forget Jewels N Drugs. 

[MrDarkGa 311]

5 hours ago, Versace said:

While I do see your perspective, I genuinely think you were expecting too much. Perhaps TFM and BTW have made it even more so that many expectations were surrounding ARTPOP's release and meaning. However, in the end you can't deny it's sonically great music. If it lost fans or is underrated, I certainly don't blame the music. The album is seriously a joyful collection of uptempo dance-floor anthems. I mean who can resist the melodies of Venus, Applause, and Gypsy. ARTPOP's sound is colorful, brave and bold. In other words its really a have a good time album. Not everything needs to be explained or have a clear ideology for it to be enjoyable or considered "good music". I think were judging ARTPOP harshly because we compare it to Gaga's previous efforts and consider it an underperformance for her. When we look it the facts, I remember ARTPOP outsold many female pop albums. We keep asking too much from ARTPOP (probably cause Gaga overhyped it) but in reality let's not act as if Katy's Prism had any more meaning "I turned my darkness into light, here's an album about it" is just as vague as "ARTPOP could mean anything".  Heck, what was Beyonce's first visual album even about, other than just a collection of videos with no coherent meaning or theme. You also had Britney Jean around that time which is arguably Britney's weakest effort. Even if it was a low point for her, I still think it was the most interesting album out during its time. 

 

 

I 100% agree that the album is good sonically. The music is fun and really Gaga brand.

 In terms of what we were made to expect (app, two acts etc), the dated sound at time of release and its overall shortfall of fullfilling a concept or satisfying the title itself however - its more than sub-par. 

[MrDarkGa 311]

48 minutes ago, Acsnpdx8 said:

I agree with you 100% and I have to add that I think a lot of people don't take into account the fact that she FIRED her manager. Judging from her comments about the Fame perfume and a couple other things, it seems she was forced by Troy Carter to do certain things and I honestly think that a lot of the (over)hype of the album was her passive aggressively acting out against him. When you hear her comments about social media and the internet now, it really makes me wonder if the whole app thing was Troy pushing her and he wanted to spend more money on stuff like that rather than her art and visuals. 

Also the "when the artist takes full control of the icon" statement had always seemed like a big FU to Troy. This makes me think the whole SXSW performance, the *ehem* racy DWUW video, etc were all Gaga acting out because she was unhappy with Troy. And I think she was just in an awkward situation because she wanted to please her fans but her manager sort of had her hands tied. I remember being SO HYPED for this album and the projects/videos she teased and it just kept disappointing/underdelivering to be honest (I love the album btw)

Lastly, I think the biggest disappointment was mainly the lack of visuals for such an artistic and experimental project. You could tell she really wanted to deliver but again she was held back and it's a shame because she had been building such a collection of amazing videos. Also, for some reason I have always thought that sonically, the final album was released as more what the label wanted than her. She's commented about producers auto-tuning her voice and if you compare any other Gaga albums tracks to ARTPOP, the ARTPOP track will always be rougher, louder, and less of an earworm. I don't say that as a critic, I've played the album for some of my music production friends who are obsessed with music and they mainly couldn't finish about half the songs. Theres something about the disjointedness of it all. What I'm saying is that even with experimental pop music, there's a formula for how things sound (if you want it to be pleasing to the listener) and for example, the Venus chorus, at first listen is like wtf where did that come from. Let's not forget Jewels N Drugs. 

Literally all of this. ARTPOP is always assosciated with her depression and loss of a sense of self to me. Its her most manufactured album. I think Lana Del Rey is in a similar situation with her new album as she said it has been done for many months now but has no idea when its coming out. Her label or manager may be hindering it. 

Also ARTPOP (the song) is one of my top 5's and I believe that its more in line with what ARTPOP was supposed to be initially. Nearly every other track has an EDM or Dance aspect to it and seem really quite basic, but this one is so ethereal and floaty and sounds one of the most experimental on the album. 

The lack of visuals upsets me as well. The I&V shoot like I said is how I wished the album went or at least started. Born This Way's initial visuals were amazing and were a great starter for the album campaign. But the Koons visuals we got just seemed a bit hollow to me. Uninteresting. It was too much. 

But as a bottom line to her management - I love that she now has a manager she can work with and not for and that she doesnt give a damn about commercial sales. She collabed on a Jazz album sith a jazz legend. She released an amazing country album and introduced that form of music to the mainstream. She seems to be doing really well as a result. 

[gumzy3000 7,540]

ARTPOP is meant to be a reverse Warholian experience, it’s pretty simple really.

Warhol took ordinary objects and turned it to art. People were fascinated by it because he was questioning the very idea of what art is.

ARTPOP is the reverse of this. Gaga was taking fine arts (Roman art/mythology and modern artists like Jeff Koons and Marina Abromovich) and making it into something ordinary and plain that the average person can access and live through. She did this by using them in pop music, a medium which doesn’t get much respect because it’s seen as ordinary, cheap and shallow. She was questioning if we can use these things in our everyday life to live an artful life.

My ARTPOP could mean anything means anything in your life can be art.

There are many more messages in ARTPOP but I think this was the main one.

[Versace 8,022]

20 hours ago, MrDarkGa said:

I 100% agree that the album is good sonically. The music is fun and really Gaga brand.

 In terms of what we were made to expect (app, two acts etc), the dated sound at time of release and its overall shortfall of fullfilling a concept or satisfying the title itself however - its more than sub-par. 

How was the sound dated? Impossible!! If you ask me. ARTPOP was ahead with the EDM sound. To me ARTPOP is EDM music. Just look at the producers, Zedd and Madeon. The drops were way ahead of their time and the melodies were complex (ex: Venus, Aura, the title track's psychedelic venture). We're talking 2013, arguably the start of EDM going mainstream.  

[Inferno 2,880]

On 4/12/2019 at 7:40 AM, MrDarkGa said:

I 100% agree that the album is good sonically. The music is fun and really Gaga brand.

 In terms of what we were made to expect (app, two acts etc), the dated sound at time of release and its overall shortfall of fullfilling a concept or satisfying the title itself however - its more than sub-par. 

Again, said this in another thread last week and ill reiterate for you, the sound of ARTPOP is not dated. It did not entirely contain the cliches of the popularized edm movement present on pop radio from 2010-2013 in a way for it to be dated. ARTPOP sonically is more an example of 2 people (Gaga and DJWS, the executive producer) basically holed up in the studio in their own bubble, aware of contemporary trends and music but not paying much attention to making sure that what they create fits hook line and sinker within that limited realm. The albums production uses then contemporary trends as vague suggestions, but the work itself was neither dated nor futuristic. It simply existed in its own corner in present time, much like most of The Fame did in 2008 imo. Which is why in some respects specifically for what they did with Gagas sound I think of DJWS as like a Rob Fusari (of Beautiful Dirty Rich, Paparazzi fame), because their productions to me at least exist in this very alienated space. A song like Paparazzi sounded out of place in 2009 not because it sounded futuristic or even retro, but because it just didn't sound like what one is accustomed to a radio pop song sounding like, doesn't mean its monumental production wise but it just is I mean you hear how its related to Depeche Mode-era 80s new wave, darkwave whatever but it doesn't quite entirely align with it either. And I would truly say the same for songs like Sexxx Dreams, Aura and ARTPOP for example, you hear how they align with synthpop or "complextro" or rave music whatever the **** but they also don't entirely adhere to the specificity of these subgenres. Idk if any of this is making sense. Anyway this is my long winded way of explaining how I think calling it dated is a very misguided criticism. An album like Pink Friday: Roman Reloaded sounds dated because of the ways it played so blatantly into trendy cliches of its moment, in a way that an album like ARTPOP actually does not at all. And thats not me saying its better or uNiQuE aND CrEAtIvE, but there just is a difference that generalizing it as "dated" ignores.

[seashellplay 512]

I Don't Speak English But I Wish I Could. 

[Jose P 23,341]

Oscar Wilde said it best:

 

Diversity of opinion about a work of art shows that the work is new, complex, and vital.

When critics disagree the artist is in accord with himself.

[seashellplay 512]

 

1 minute ago, Jose P said:

Oscar Wilde said it best:

 

Diversity of opinion about a work of art shows that the work is new, complex, and vital.

When critics disagree the artist is in accord with himself.

Life Imitates Art...

 

ARTPOP, the psychedelic realm...intellectually challenging locals...

 

GagarinaDaily, the Gagzie cult...

[gagzus 16,374]

She wanted to make visuals inspired by art underlined by Pop/Dance music and wanted the focus to be on the messages and visual references as opposed to the music. Kind of like a soundtrack to her work at the time.

[Diamond heart99 5,262]

I think we should let it go...it’s been how many years now?

Let people love it or let people hate it. 

She’s not a damn oscar winner and putting a new album yet it will be 2025 and people will STILL be whining about this album and trying to explain it to people.