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Slate: "Michael Jackson defenders are starting to sound like flat-earthers"

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Chop
12 minutes ago, August3 said:

Why? 

damnatio memoriae is what he deserves :staymad:

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PunkTheFunk
43 minutes ago, August3 said:

Except flat earthers have no evidence that backs up what they believe. There is no evidence against what MJ defenders believe. 

Except there is literally a mountain of evidence against what MJ defenders believe.

#Pete2020
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Didymus
26 minutes ago, Gohan said:

And the ones that believe in the documentary are starting to become like obnoxious religious extremists who can't even see that those grown a** men been trying to save their finances by gaining some notoriety by falsely accusing time to time an already dead man :madge:

"The main purveyors of the money argument are the lawyers for the Jackson estate. The lawyers’ motivation is to protect the estate’s huge pile of money. That doesn’t discredit the lawyers’ arguments, but we can’t think of it as a smoking gun of witness impeachment. If we believe the lawyers’ arguments, then we are believing the argument of people being paid to argue that you can’t believe the arguments of people who are in it for the pay. I’ll let you sit with that one."

Excellent point fom the article, I'm sure this is what @Sugden was referring to :hug:

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JevyDuty
1 minute ago, PunkTheFunk said:

Except there is literally a mountain of evidence against what MJ defenders believe.

But did they stand in the court of law? This ain't France. We are innocent until proven guilty. And those questionable evidence you speak of are.... questionable. If there's room for doubt, then there's room for discussion and no room for a definitive conviction. 

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nicolasrumet
36 minutes ago, PunkTheFunk said:

Except there is literally a mountain of evidence against what MJ defenders believe.

Enlighten me. I've been searching so hard and couldn't find any.

All I found is a few witnesses who have credibility issues from the past and the present.

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Wigless

except NASA doesn’t stand against a round earth like the FBI stands against MJ’s accusations...

ugh team no evidence is getting desperate 

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Guillaume Hamon
38 minutes ago, JevyDuty said:

This ain't France. We are innocent until proven guilty.

Why do you say people are treated as guilty with no proofs specially in France?

Didn't the "innocent until proven guilty" thing faded a bit everywhere?

Edited by Guillaume Hamon

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JevyDuty

Not being shady but the laws are the opposite in both countries. That's all. In the USA, you are innocent until proven guilty. In France, you are guilty until proven innocent. @Guillaume Hamon

Edited by JevyDuty
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Guillaume Hamon
3 minutes ago, JevyDuty said:

Not being shady but the laws are the opposite in both countries. That's all. In USA, you are innocent until proven guilty. In France, you are guilty until proven innocent. @Guillaume Hamon

I know you're not shady. ;) 

I just don't know why you say that cause I can tell you a ton of people in France don't go to jail even in very fishy cases cause there was no proofs that they were guilty. Just like in many countries included the USA.

Edited by Guillaume Hamon

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JevyDuty
6 minutes ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

I know you're not shady ;) I just don't know why you say that but I can tell you a ton of people in France don't go to jail even in very fishy cases cause there was no proofs that they were guilty. Just like in many countries included the USA.

I'm just saying. In France the accused has to prove their innocence. In the USA, the accuser has to prove your guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

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RAMROD

What kind of stupid comparison :lmao:

 

(ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ✧*:・゚ ♥ Si ♥ Vis ♥ Pacem ♥ Para ♥ Bellum ♥
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Ziggy
1 hour ago, Chop said:

Tbh his music should be banned from youtube, spotify, etc.

This I disagree with. He collaborated with hoardes of people many of whom are still alive. Why should they be punished for this? You think when Thriller was made that Quincy Jones knew? No. DWUW was a different story since the people who worked on it were already paid (as some were with Michael, I’m sure), and those who get royalties like DJWS (I would guess) still get checks from the XTina version so no one was at a loss besides Kelly and Gaga and it was ultimately her decision to make.

That, and we don’t ban Huck Finn or Uncle Tom’s Cabin for their depictions of race nor do we want to ban Henry Miller’s work just because it’s controversial. The point is that art is a timestamp of history and, like it or not, Michael’s is so incredibly, deeply a part of that history that removing it is historical erasure which is a dangerous path to start down.

I was alright with DWUW because the song directly profited off of R. Kelly as a controversial figure *and* you can still find it, just Gaga won’t profit off of it. That’s a good compromise. Michael’s music did not really profit off of his controversy nor did it perpetuate troublesome imagery so it seems entirely nonsensical to ban his music. We can’t just deny that he still is one of the most successful artists of all time. That’s how this stuff happens again, by erasing the evidence that they existed (which in this case is a fruitless effort anyway *and* also opens the door for abuse of this concept since Michael has no formal, legal guilt attached; even if we think he did do what he’s accused of, consider how an ultra conservative might wield and weaponize that kind of cultural norm: that’s how we get freedom of religion nonsense).

Edited by Ziggy
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nicolasrumet

 

10 minutes ago, JevyDuty said:

Not being shady but the laws are the opposite in both countries. That's all. In USA, you are innocent until proven guilty. In France, you are guilty until proven innocent. @Guillaume Hamon

Lol what...

I'm originally from France and I study law in the U.S and I have never heard of this lol...

Actually presumption of innocence is taken even more seriously in France. For instance there is no such thing as public mugshots because it would violate the presumption of innocence of that person when you take public pictures of them while being arrested/processed. Even when arrests take place, the face of the person being arrested is usually hidden if there are many cameras in the scene etc...

And presumption of innocence principle goes all the way back to roman law. It's not an american invention. 

The only notable difference between the U.S and France is that the U.S uses Common Law like the U.K while France uses Civil Law. And that's more of a technical aspect, meaning that France relies more on codified statutes whereas the U.S relies more on established case law and precedents.

Aside from that difference, the french and the american judicial systems are pretty similar.

Edited by nicolasrumet
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ChromeAngel

Shut up lmao. Actually Michael did A LOT of exposing of the music industry, his label and producers. They tried to sabotage him and it worked 

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