The GP don't want CrazyGa back

[ApplauseftAdele 4,679]

Im late to this thread but while people praise her stripped down performances, ive seen countless viral tweets every time Gaga does something weird saying "the rah rah bitch is back" with thousands of RTs. So its safe to assume they want the crazyness back.

 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

4 hours ago, AJRocketMan said:

Are they straight? And are you LGBT?  Are you a man or a woman? Straight men don’t have good taste in what’s truly great art imo. Women and LGBT men are more highly evolved. And what do they think of Gaga now?

There were PLENTY of teens who were saying she was over by then, but there were also plenty that were defending her (the Little Monsters! ). I’m American, those who dropped her were the casual fans who latched onto her only because she was cool, and were generally socially conservative. Gaga was never going to last amongst that demographic anyway.

As for those new at-the-time pop girls: Meghan and especially Iggy’s cultural relevance were relegated to strictly 2014, Lorde and Miley don’t release new music consistently enough to keep up, and Selena is proving to be more of a Jennifer Lopez case in terms of fame. So that leaves Ariana. If you look at my post that responds to another user, Ariana I would say is definitely Gaga’s successor in regards to mainstream success, attention, and relevance amongst adolescents. She knows how to give the consumer exactly what they want, when they want it.

I’m bi but not “out” and my brothers are “straight”. But now that you ask I have my doubts...

I don’t think Ariana is doing what Gaga did. Ariana’s music is very much trendy-current made for radio. Gaga’s music is always more subversive and against the trends. Ariana is more following the path of Katy Perry in making hits that appeal to the coveted 13-25 age group.

[AJRocketMan 2,684]

7 hours ago, Lord Temptation said:

I don’t think Ariana is doing what Gaga did. Ariana’s music is very much trendy-current made for radio. Gaga’s music is always more subversive and against the trends. Ariana is more following the path of Katy Perry in making hits that appeal to the coveted 13-25 age group.

I know. I just meant Ariana took Gaga’s place in terms of commercial success and recognition, not artistry and ambition. Her superstar status, rather than her ethos.

[FinnishGypsy 899]

20 hours ago, AJRocketMan said:

So that leaves Ariana. If you look at my post that responds to another user, Ariana I would say is definitely Gaga’s successor in regards to mainstream success, attention, and relevance amongst adolescents. She knows how to give the consumer exactly what they want, when they want it.

I have to respectfully vehemently disagree with this. I actually had high hopes for Ariana following the DW album, but at this point her fame appears to be more akin to that of a Kylie Jenner than of an actual pop superstar (after both, of course, followed a complete face/hair/body overhaul, thereby transforming themselves from ”basic white girl” into “exotic WOC” to win the affections of the fickle public—even though the only color those two women see is green).

But truthfully, as of late, Ariana is getting a LOT of (warranted) hate and backlash for her blatant blackfishing; many of her post-Nickelodeon “stans” are quite literally JUST NOW discovering she’s white!  (I followed the developments regarding this topic in extreme amusement on another message board).

Before:

After:

Frankly, she’s gotten away with A LOT already over the years, simply due to a sense of (understandable) sympathy from the public, (myself included), concerning all the horrific things she’s encountered during the last several years.

But I believe that sympathy is wearing off quickly, and she’s the one maximizing the speed at which it dissipates. Now everything from the donut licking, to the constant reports of her being extremely rude to young fans, and unprofessional/diva-behavior with basically everyone she works with, is being discussed all over, and her core fanbase is extremely polarized by her latest album, since now she’s gone from soprano, breathy vocalist to a MUMBLE RAPPER. 

And beyond the blackfishing, there's now also proof she has taken the work of lesser known black artists, and used it knowingly without crediting them. That’s...****ed up. She’s LITERALLY taking from their culture without acknowledging the inspiration or source at all; that’s blackfishing to a Milli Vanilli level. 

And after her (three) Grammy’s related temper tantrums, we can be assured that’s the last she’ll (not) be seen there as well.

While yes, it admittedly seems paradoxical to be stating this given she’s just NOW gaining her very first #1s, but that’s simply because her celebrity is currently bigger than her artistry, and when she calls out her very recently deceased famous ex (whom she trashed publicly, prior to his death) and very recent former-fiancé, also famous, (and their **** sizes), in what apparently constitute a song and was oh-so-respectfully released about two days after these two men’s passing and broken engagement, respectively, it's clearly solely for the purpose of attaining attention (wherein she obviously succeeded).

Yet even now, at the peak of her popularity, her debut week for Sweetener still sold less than the Backstreet Boy’s #1 album from last week--and they've been around for over 25 years, with 10 (rather than four) albums (both Ariana and the BSB utilized a tour bundle, and BSB still outsold)!

And that’s what brings me to my final point: she’s been very successful within this business for many years, and yet can anyone name ONE “iconic” Ariana Grande moment in pop culture? A performance, a look, a speech, a music video, ANYTHING innovative that will be remembered years from now?

I think the answer to that is a resounding “no,” and her lack of charisma compounded with the horrible direction her “trap music” and image is going in, along with her real-life Mean Girls personality, and I seriously think her next era will face the same, or even worse, backlash as Miley’s Bangerz era did during Younger Now (And I mean, at least Miley didn’t actually pretend to be a minority by omission, by changing her skin color, facial features, or having a sudden delusional belief she was a rapper, and the outcry from the public was brutal regardless. I don’t think her career will ever recover, honestly, and Miley was a lot more famous, and for a whole lot longer, than Ariana).

ETA: If anyone thinks I’m exaggerating, please look at the attached picture, wherein she’s freaking darker than Nicki Minaj!  She honestly became such a joke (and worse, a culturally-appropriating and literal plagiarizing joke), in my eyes when I myself just recently discovered she wasn’t mixed, Latina or black (wasn’t ever a “stan” obviously, just enjoyed her pop music immensely circa DW). And fortunately, my eyes aren’t the only ones appalled.

ETA x2: For another Mean Girls reference, allow me to apologize to you for all this word vomit. It’s not directed at you at all; I was just recently shocked when I discovered, well, what a terrible person she was, without an ounce of artistic integrity, and in concert with her music now being, well, equally terrible, I have needless to say been very disappointed given the current pop drought. 

Also I'm sorry for all the run-on sentences, my screen is broken so this is being done via speech to text. It’s probably a total mess, haha.

[FinnishGypsy 899]

18 hours ago, mauvais said:

Also, as I said before, I think the role of the artist is different post-Tr*** and there was something a little grotesque about Taylor trying to get us to care about her hurt feelings when the world is total ****.

Extremely accurate. And, I suspect, the very reason Taylor finally decided to take a political stance right before the midterms; she had previously been appealing to the widest demographic possible by being apolitical, but post-Putin as POTUS-by-Proxy Planet, her petty relationship issues apparently finally became recognized for the trivial high school drama it always has been, and she realized she’d now actually widen her demo and overall appeal by taking a (minimally offensive) stance against the Russian patsy-in-office and his cult of regressives who sure do seem hellbent on destroying the country.

As always with Taylor, I can’t help but assume it was an entirely calculated decision made with considerable planning and in concert with her entire team, and there’s truthfully no way of knowing what her actual political beliefs are. She’s kept her mouth shut way too long, and way too many times, when she possessed a massive, nearly unparalleled platform and sphere of influence, yet now suddenly wants to interject her two cents as she wound up with the lowest-rated album in her discography, and arguably the most forgettable singles of any era, all of which just so happens to coincide with the least popular “president” in US history. 

She is all sales, at the cost of everything else (and already proven to be a very adept liar, what with being “exposed” by that stupid Kimye thing, which I’m sure was a publicity stunt anyway because she needed some “bad girl” persona to sprinkle into her decade of shocked girly faces and Little House On The Prairie Crap, and this became pretty evident when it was unveiled that her entire era (music videos, tour, etc) revolved nearly exclusively around snakes. She didn’t cleverly turn around the (accurate) reports regarding her deceptive behavior and comparisons to cold-blooded reptiles and “reclaim it” or whatever, it was all intended from the start). 

But now for something positive; I feel like it’s probably necessary to include since we all know Gaga is always watching, just like God. But I digress! Despite my feelings regarding Taylor, LWYMMD was a fantastic pop music video. Amazing replay value. And 1989 was a great pop album. So I’ll give props when it’s due. 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

8 hours ago, AJRocketMan said:

I know. I just meant Ariana took Gaga’s place in terms of commercial success and recognition, not artistry and ambition. Her superstar status, rather than her ethos.

Well, Ariana is definitely played on radio nonstop. Her prescence now (seven years into her career) is like Gaga’s in her first three years. Though there was a pop void from 2012 to 2018 when we had no Gaga successor and just lots of mediocrity.

[Notget 502]

Ok but who's that hunty in the vid.

[AJRocketMan 2,684]

41 minutes ago, Lord Temptation said:

Well, Ariana is definitely played on radio nonstop. Her prescence now (seven years into her career) is like Gaga’s in her first three years. Though there was a pop void from 2012 to 2018 when we had no Gaga successor and just lots of mediocrity.

It seemed like there was always “the next Lady Gaga” during that period, but none of those women could sustain their success, both due to business and artistic reasons.

In 2013 it seemed like Miley was gonna be her successor. 2013 Bangerz era was a marketing genius, but then in 2014 she released “Adore U” as the final single (not a good move) and she abandoned the era and went on tour for the rest of the year, subsequently taking all the attention off of her.

Then Iggy came along with the catchy “Fancy”, but she was a joke and was left behind after 2014. Ditto Meghan Trainor (one trick pony).

Tove Lo came in at the very end of the year and had two hit singles (“Habits” and “Talking Body”), but faded due to her other singles and music videos being boring. With Lady Wood, which was a great album, she came off as too crude and full of herself to be taken seriously in the pop industry again.

As for Charli XCX, who had a very successful 2013 and 2014, I have no explanation for why she didn’t blow up, which is a shame because she delivered bangers back then. Perhaps poor business decisions?

Camila Cabello is proving to be a repeat of Meghan Trainor again. Lorde’s potential was killed by long breaks and indifference. Taylor and Adele releases music but played it too safe. And Rihanna and Beyoncé got “weird” without being subversive or musically progressive. It was all in the politics for them.

[PerfectExca 636]

1 hour ago, FinnishGypsy said:

Extremely accurate. And, I suspect, the very reason Taylor finally decided to take a political stance right before the midterms; she had previously been appealing to the widest demographic possible by being apolitical, but post-Putin as POTUS-by-Proxy Planet, her petty relationship issues apparently finally became recognized for the trivial high school drama it always has been, and she realized she’d now actually widen her demo and overall appeal by taking a (minimally offensive) stance against the Russian patsy-in-office and his cult of regressives who sure do seem hellbent on destroying the country.

As always with Taylor, I can’t help but assume it was an entirely calculated decision made with considerable planning and in concert with her entire team, and there’s truthfully no way of knowing what her actual political beliefs are. She’s kept her mouth shut way too long, and way too many times, when she possessed a massive, nearly unparalleled platform and sphere of influence, yet now suddenly wants to interject her two cents as she wound up with the lowest-rated album in her discography, and arguably the most forgettable singles of any era, all of which just so happens to coincide with the least popular “president” in US history. 

She is all sales, at the cost of everything else (and already proven to be a very adept liar, what with being “exposed” by that stupid Kimye thing, which I’m sure was a publicity stunt anyway because she needed some “bad girl” persona to sprinkle into her decade of shocked girly faces and Little House On The Prairie Crap, and this became pretty evident when it was unveiled that her entire era (music videos, tour, etc) revolved nearly exclusively around snakes. She didn’t cleverly turn around the (accurate) reports regarding her deceptive behavior and comparisons to cold-blooded reptiles and “reclaim it” or whatever, it was all intended from the start). 

But now for something positive; I feel like it’s probably necessary to include since we all know Gaga is always watching, just like God. But I digress! Despite my feelings regarding Taylor, LWYMMD was a fantastic pop music video. Amazing replay value. And 1989 was a great pop album. So I’ll give props when it’s due. 

Reading your last few posts all I can say is.... how are you so smart

[McYves 1,612]

I still don't understand why Gaga being loved and revered by the whole world is so important to some monsters. I only expect that she keeps being true to her art --meaning CrazyGa, normal Gaga, a "new" Gaga we don't even expect, whatever-- AS IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN. Those who really understand and appreciate Gaga as an artist, including me of course, will be there FOREVER. **** the GP.

[freebit 6,069]

I'm not a fickle success stan, but I think its understandable to feel trepidation that she might put out something sonically "messy" and turn off new fans and halt her own hard work and momentum she's steadily built since Joanne and the Superbowl. Whatever she puts out next hopefully has maturity and thoughtfulness to it, and isn't regressive lyrically. 

As far as my opinion on what might keep her new audience interested, and what might align with her tastes, I think something along the lines of Brandon Flowers' The Desired Effect would be perfect for her - its pop-rock, but glam, and not Pink level bland. In fact, I would LOVE for her to work with Brandon and hope she meets him at Elton's Oscar party and that they hit if off. 🙏 I also think Hilary Lindsay brings out the best in Gaga, and I hope she keeps her on for LG6, as well as possibly Lukas Nelson - it doesn't have to be folksy, but her collaborations with them on ASIB were so good.

I also think ASIB proves that there is an audience for different music on streaming services other than minimal chill electronic beats, and trap. So I don't feel she has to pander to Gen Z's audience. If she does want to do something ~cool~, then I don't see why she can't take Bad Bunny up on his offer, or collaborate with someone respected yet not over saturated, like Pusha T. Overall, there's many interesting options for her to explore that aren't say, working with the usual suggested producers (Max Martin, Antonoff etc).

[LilyLark 9,694]

On 2/21/2019 at 9:24 PM, FinnishGypsy said:

I wasn’t aware of this! Do you happen to have a link handy? (I’m not doubting you, just very curious because I had previously assumed she didn’t like the album simply due to how few songs she had performed from the album following the artRAVE—including SB Halfime—until Coachella, that is, wherein she performed a ton of ARTPOP tracks and then made me reconsider whether or not not she actually did, in fact, dislike it).

The album era was super messy and the tracklist was all over the place, but ARTPOP has some amazing pop songs: G.U.Y., Sexxx Dreams, Do What U Want (including the “new official” Xtina version, which is also fantastic), Venus, Applause, Gypsy, etc. And then some really fantastic, really unconventional tracks where art and pop really do fuse brilliantly (e.g., Aura, the title track). 

I really hope the entire album isn’t always going to be paid dust, but that she’ll surprise us at times, like she did at Coachella, by putting some of the fan favorite tracks from that era in the set list. Also, even if we only got a couple of music videos that era, they were ****ing fantastic.

ETA: I also agree with you that DIC should’ve been a single (although not as much as JW, talk about missed opportunity for a radio hit). But yeah, at around the the time Joanne was released, Ariana was dominating (with her very young fanbase) with a song about being ****ed so hard you can’t walk straight the next day (I.e., “Side to Side.”) DIC seems pretty tame in comparison, considering it’s concerning a healthy (and lifespan elongating!) habit that every single person over the age of puberty engages in. But to be fair, DIC is still far less subtle, and would’ve definitely needed more toned-down lyrics for the radio (like the blatant “I touch myself” parts). 

No, I'm sorry I don't have a link.  I just remember reading it from several years ago, and it sticking out because of how few ARTPOP songs she has done since then.

ITA that JW would have been a hit on the radio.  Part of the issue though is the weird transition into streaming for all artists. Joanne moved more albums than some of the other big pop girls, but because she doesn't do well on streaming/radio and it pales in comparison to previous albums sales it still got labeled as under performing. But she's not the only one who has this problem: Beyonce comes to mind as Lemonade sold like crazy and yet only had one song in Billboard Hot 100 and it debuted towards the bottom of the top ten.  I feel like part of the issue is she has to try and adapt to streaming, and her team doesn't always release the most radio friendly singles.

[Jakkusan 740]

At the end of the day, she's going to do whatever the f*ck she wants and i'm here for THAT.