Why Enigma 'Disappointed'

[monster4life231 4,304]

1 minute ago, oyeavi said:

Yall gays are really some entitled bastards... i really hope she keeps the same setlist to the T until 2020. And why tf are yall watching the same show on periscope everyday... that is such a loser thing to do. Like do something better with ur time. If u didnt pay to go watch enigma then u dont get to complain. 

[OMonster 14,675]

Just now, oyeavi said:

Yall gays are really some entitled bastards... i really hope she keeps the same setlist to the T until 2020. And why tf are yall watching the same show on periscope everyday... that is such a loser thing to do. Like do something better with ur time. If u didnt pay to go watch enigma then u dont get to complain. 

Wow... for real? 

Your takeaway from my thread is an 'entitled bastard'? 

I'm sorry that you didn't give yourself enough time to consider my points, or even, I imagine, bother to read my full post. Nothing I have said is entitled or derogative, unlike your contribution which, may I add, is incredibly rude, unnecessary and uneducated. 

But thanks for coming. 

 

[giskardsb 12,565]

17 minutes ago, OMonster said:

Enigma - an artist residency, not an album project - was and is the perfect time for an odyssey of her discography. The time for constant hit-saturation is a tour where audiences can be more casual - not an incredibly expensive residency where the majority are knowledgeable fans. Attending a Vegas show is an investment... you don't book into one if you only know a few hits of an artist. 

this is where you have an assumption fallacy.... the vast majority of people that attend the Vegas shows will not be "knowledgeable fans."   The majority will be people who were going to Vegas anyway.  This always happens with Gaga, where extreme fans  judge her harshly because she isn't catering to the .0001% of her extreme fanbase that watches every performance and interview.

 

[Ziggy 11,745]

Tbh I think I'd just like hearing that extended Applause outro with the trap mix at the end she did at JingleBall. Same song with a sick outro. Same for LoveGame ala TMB (The Dave Aude remix). So not total revamps of the songs, but some new added flavor. I think that's a good compromise between changing a song entirely and keeping it entirely.

The problemo with remixing Gaga hits are that the productions themselves are iconic. The JD intro synths and Pokerface's stutter lines? The productions themselves are hooks so it's hard to say the songs would stand as well remixed. Applause's as well, for that matter. And Alejandro's. It's just hard when her productions are SO distinctive.

[HeartTrip 15]

17 minutes ago, OMonster said:

As I said, though, I'm not saying don't include the hits.

I'm saying it would've been interesting, and wise, to have had some of the hits re-mixed, and to have had some of her less-known, recent tracks included. 

Personally, I find it a great shame that Gaga (as best represented by the Enigma show) doesn't ever give a platform to her full discography. This woman is an incredible, varied and complex artist who's output is beyond eclectic. To only ever present the vision of Lady Gaga as one reduced to 'hits' is, in my opinion, totally regressive. I love the classics, but they are not her best works. 

Enigma - an artist residency, not an album project - was and is the perfect time for an odyssey of her discography. The time for constant hit-saturation is a tour where audiences can be more casual - not an incredibly expensive residency where the majority are knowledgeable fans. Attending a Vegas show is an investment... you don't book into one if you only know a few hits of an artist. 

 

 

 

Sorry, but you've got this last part completely wrong. Yes, there are a lot of hard-core fans that go to these Vegas shows, but I would say the majority of attendees over the course of a residency are members of the GP who booked a Vegas trip and wanted to see a show as well, and chose Gaga's. There are thousands of people who visit Vegas every DAY, so its not logical to assume most attendees of Gaga's shows are fans because they aren't. It's also extremely expensive to visit Vegas, not something fans (who a lot of the time are not working adults) can afford. At the end of the day Vegas is a VACATION spot for millions of people. Everyone wants to see at least one show when they go to Vegas, and Gaga is a big name so they choose her. And as members of the GP, they want to sing along to songs they KNOW. A lot of times audience members are drunk as hell in Vegas....they don't want to hear ARTPOP being performed....lol.

 

I also say this as a huge Britney fan, and when I went to her Vegas shows multiple times, the majority of audience members were not hardcore fans, but instead regular GP people who wanted to have a good time singing along to her catalogue of hits. 

[S0436 10,215]

You said you have seen the full show in HD.  Am I missing something?  There was a Netflix NYE special that I missed?  *Willis, what you talkin bout?* 

[HighwayFantasy 2,015]

This is the best thing she has ever done, I am so proud of her and the show is soooooo sick

[OMonster 14,675]

36 minutes ago, giskardsb said:

this is where you have an assumption fallacy.... the vast majority of people that attend the Vegas shows will not be "knowledgeable fans."   This always happens with Gaga, where extreme fans who watch every performance judge her harshly because she isn't catering to .0001% of her extreme fanbase that watches every performance and interview.

 

With a capacity of just under 6,000, I think it's arguable that the percentage of 'knowledgeable fans' (not necessarily hardcore monsters... but fans beyond TF/M/BTW, nonetheless) will be higher in Vegas than it will be at a her tours where A) tickets are cheaper, and where B) convenience (due to the show being in your own town) leads to a diluted Monster audience.

There is also the point that Vegas offers a lot of choice (Britney, Cher, J-Lo, Celine) and, as such, if you're spending a lot of money on Gaga, I am confident that the audience is familiar with her work beyond the hits - or else why not go and see another artist? It's not as though Gaga has so many hits that it makes it worthwhile... she only really has maybe, what, ten 'big' to 'moderate-sized' hits? It's a great achievement for a ten year career, but the other artists in Vegas have more hits because they're legacy-artists. And so the argument that the audience is there for the hits only, I think, is probably untrue because they'd just go elsewhere if they wanted a more 'commercial' or 'nostalgic' experience. 

I understand your point, for sure, that Vegas - as an isolated location - is a restrictive place in terms of getting a mass-audience of Monsters. But I think it works both ways - the tours are 'too' open, whilst Vegas is 'too' closed. But, as we have seen from the first few shows, hard-core Monsters are happy to pay thousands of pounds to go and see her in Vegas... which is why I think the Monster-percentage is probably, relatively, very high. If this is true, then the Vegas residency would have been the perfect time to explore her discography in a more open way. 

 

[Enigma 7,182]

I don't think her hits needed remixes per say, but the order of the setlist is really my main problem.

I think the setlist itself is perfect, but she could have arranged it to tell a more cohesive story. As if each song was part of one big musical that made the story progress.

I think it's tired at this point that her greatest hits are always isolated in a greatest hits segment. Why do Just Dance, Poker Face and Lovegame always have to be back to back ?

For instance I like what she did with Alejandro, which was to include it at a kinda random moment in the show, because in the storyline she was saying goodbye to someone or something, which fitted the song.

Also I will stand by it but Aura needs to be the opener and she needs to do something with it. The show is titled Enigma and you have a line talking about ''Enigma popstar'' in that song, it'd be so easy to make a link ! Plus Aura is the opener of ARTPOP so it just FEELS like an opener. Such a wasted opportunity

What I've always loved about Gaga is those stories she has in her head, like the whole BTWB with GOAT, or Aura and Telephone telling a story. I kind of wished Enigma would be a continuation of Aura somehow, or that there would be a quick nod to it, since she wanted to follow with it during ARTPOP but couldn't make Aura a single.

Also I don't like that the encore is Shallow. She could have put it near You and I or Million Reasons. Yes the song is one of her biggest and most current hits, but it has little values to fan if you compare it to DITD, any of her early hits, Bad Romance, Born This Way, etc. It just triggers my OCD that she sings a country song that is technically sung by a character (Ally) that has nothing to do with the Enigma storyline. Makes the show less immersive.

I love the interludes SO, SO MUCH but I'm just sad that they kind of go nowhere. I really expected a big story like with GOAT. I wanted Enigma to be a big deal. Since she's going for that anime / superhero thing it would be better if there was some kind of villain. I don't know. I just felt like the whole talking with Enigma was just air, filled with those cheesy ''find your true self'' monologue that we've been getting at each of her shows since the first one.

In short I just expected more content storytelling-wise.

[giskardsb 12,565]

3 minutes ago, OMonster said:

With a capacity of just under 6,000, I think it's arguable that the percentage of 'knowledgeable fans' (not necessarily hardcore monsters... but fans beyond TF/M/BTW, nonetheless) will be higher in Vegas than it will be at a her tours where A) tickets are cheaper, and where B) convenience (due to the show being in your own town) leads to a diluted Monster audience.

There is also the point that Vegas offers a lot of choice (Britney, Cher, J-Lo, Celine) and, as such, if you're spending a lot of money on Gaga, I am confident that the audience is familiar with her work beyond the hits - or else why not go and see another artist? It's not as though Gaga has so many hits that it makes it worthwhile... she only really has maybe, what, ten 'big' to 'moderate-sized' hits? It's a great achievement for a ten year career, but the other artists in Vegas have more hits because they're legacy-artists. And so the argument that the audience is there for the hits only, I think, is probably untrue. 

I understand your point, for sure, that Vegas - as an isolated location - is a restrictive place in terms of getting a mass-audience of Monsters. But I think it works both ways - the tours are 'too' open, whilst Vegas is 'too' closed. But, as we have seen from the first few shows, hard-core Monsters are happy to pay thousands of pounds to go and see her in Vegas... which is why I think the Monster-percentage is probably, relatively, very high. If this is true, then the Vegas residency would have been the perfect time to explore her discography in a more open way. 

 

Gaga is automatically the biggest name in Vegas, has a hit movie, and is well known as a performer and singer by the entire GP.   They also know that she will be really performing and not lip-syncing.  She WILL be the top draw for anyone wanting to see a show in Vegas.  

Sure, SOME monsters will spend a bunch of money to see the show on it's opening nights, but the "monster percentage" will decrease likely as shows go on.   I'd be surprised if > 10% max of any given show is "knowledgable" fans, and it's probably much lower.

 

[HeartTrip 15]

8 minutes ago, OMonster said:

With a capacity of just under 6,000, I think it's arguable that the percentage of 'knowledgeable fans' (not necessarily hardcore monsters... but fans beyond TF/M/BTW, nonetheless) will be higher in Vegas than it will be at a her tours where A) tickets are cheaper, and where B) convenience (due to the show being in your own town) leads to a diluted Monster audience.

There is also the point that Vegas offers a lot of choice (Britney, Cher, J-Lo, Celine) and, as such, if you're spending a lot of money on Gaga, I am confident that the audience is familiar with her work beyond the hits - or else why not go and see another artist? It's not as though Gaga has so many hits that it makes it worthwhile... she only really has maybe, what, ten 'big' to 'moderate-sized' hits? It's a great achievement for a ten year career, but the other artists in Vegas have more hits because they're legacy-artists. And so the argument that the audience is there for the hits only, I think, is probably untrue because they'd just go elsewhere if they wanted a more 'commercial' or 'nostalgic' experience. 

I understand your point, for sure, that Vegas - as an isolated location - is a restrictive place in terms of getting a mass-audience of Monsters. But I think it works both ways - the tours are 'too' open, whilst Vegas is 'too' closed. But, as we have seen from the first few shows, hard-core Monsters are happy to pay thousands of pounds to go and see her in Vegas... which is why I think the Monster-percentage is probably, relatively, very high. If this is true, then the Vegas residency would have been the perfect time to explore her discography in a more open way. 

 

In terms of choosing between artists, there isn’t as much competition as you might think. For example, Britney and Gaga will be at the same hotel come February so they will be switching off. And back during piece of me, Britney switched off with j-lo. A lot of times these artists aren’t performing at the same time. I’m not saying this to infer people still wouldn’t choose gaga, but just something I wanted to point out. 

[Nicholas Pierce 5]

I have so much respect for Gaga as an artist, but you forgot an important issue about this: it's Vegas. 

It's not meant for hardcore fans. I'm assuming not everyone has the possibility to spend money in a trip + tickets + hotel, etc. 

They try to make the show attractive to both fans and general public, who knows Gaga for her past hits (not trying to diminish her recent work, but let's keep it real, her last hit -not consireding Shallow- were the ones from BTW era; not even Applause was THAT big) so they won't risk to create something entirely for fans. 

I'm happy with what Enigma is, an entertaining show where you see people vibing all together and a very happy Gagag (or Enigma..) 

[LordEnigma 11,313]

1 hour ago, OMonster said:

As I said, though, I'm not saying don't include the hits.

I'm saying it would've been interesting, and wise, to have had some of the hits re-mixed, and to have had some of her less-known, recent tracks included. 

Personally, I find it a great shame that Gaga (as best represented by the Enigma show) doesn't ever give a platform to her full discography. This woman is an incredible, varied and complex artist who's output is beyond eclectic. To only ever present the vision of Lady Gaga as one reduced to 'hits' is, in my opinion, totally regressive. I love the classics, but they are not her best works. 

Enigma - an artist residency, not an album project - was and is the perfect time for an odyssey of her discography. The time for constant hit-saturation is a tour where audiences can be more casual - not an incredibly expensive residency where the majority are knowledgeable fans. Attending a Vegas show is an investment... you don't book into one if you only know a few hits of an artist. 

 

 

 

That last part is completely incorrect. The majority of people at my show on Sunday were casual listeners. They seemed to outweigh hardcore fans.

[GhettoFabulous 18,501]

My biggest issue tbh is the fact that she didn’t remix or switch up her old hits tbh  and the choreo was cringy at some points... so much more could be done with the storyline  but literally everything you said was tea 

[Killa 17,456]

I really dont think this is accurate.

If you wanna talk just about the setlist, id say that theres a really big problem that you didnt really got right.

Shes changed too much on her style and its becoming too hard for her to put on a cohesive show.

In this kind of performance in which we have a storyline, you have to convey the story through the music, and also make the music fit it.

Its a bit sad that way back She would make sacrifices of changing the songs for a performance, for example televised, and it would fit the plot. And now She seems scared the people wont receive this well. Because She does this a bit but theres a too great compromise.

In fact, many Times theres the intro that carries the story like a soundtrack but then we arrive to the pop song as it was construções instead of continuing this musical idea.

Thats One of the things that i dont get. 

For example Judas here is amazing, She have it a new life. Yes, its easier because closer to this world of anime/metal shes evoking. But this treatment is not so hard for others.

The other problem is the stage. But only live youd get a real sense. But its just too much things happening. And some are really not bringing anything of value.

Her charisma and energy are being a bit wasted. Its not only the choreo that tires but also all the crazy million things happening.