BBhomemaker 5,611 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, kyanewest said: Well that I can tell you that I struggled to find a 6 month internship and alternance even more. No job here, very hard to get one, vicious circle where u dont have enough experience, but to have experience someone has to be willing to hire you. I am not rich by any means, in fact I'm from a poor suburb of Paris, my parents always been cleaning lady or factory worker all their lives, never complained, never destroyed l'Arc de Triomphe. I'm not condemning anger, everyone should be allowed to be angry, I just find it pathetic to take it to THIS extreme for taxes and money. I do think there is always a way to improve your own life, and that the government can be an added PLUS. I agree that globally presidents don't know **** about what poor people have to go through but there is also a pattern of french people expecting everything to come out of the government. Every single thing in their lives can be improved by the government and never themselves, there has to be some part of responsibility. It's just my opinion and how I see it, nobody has to agree with me Its exactly what i said in my previous comment, i dont defend violences, i made the difference between people who actually seach and others, i didnt turn my comment personally but i can cause i have a lot to tell from personal experiences. The thing that i dont agree is to say is just about money or that is just for that tax is particular but i explained that before. Btw i live in a little city Between paris and disney so i know exactly the conditions here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillaume Hamon 7,046 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 hours ago, kyanewest said: Well that I can tell you that I struggled to find a 6 month internship and alternance even more. No job here, very hard to get one, vicious circle where u dont have enough experience, but to have experience someone has to be willing to hire you. I am not rich by any means, in fact I'm from a poor suburb of Paris, my parents always been cleaning lady or factory worker all their lives, never complained, never destroyed l'Arc de Triomphe. I'm not condemning anger, everyone should be allowed to be angry, I just find it pathetic to take it to THIS extreme for taxes and money. I do think there is always a way to improve your own life, and that the government can be an added PLUS. I agree that globally presidents don't know **** about what poor people have to go through but there is also a pattern of french people expecting everything to come out of the government. Every single thing in their lives can be improved by the government and never themselves, there has to be some part of responsibility. It's just my opinion and how I see it, nobody has to agree with me It sounds like a more nuanced and more sensitive to everyone's struggle version of your first comment. :* I would just say, don't forget that many people DO take their responsibilities by doing their best. When these same people see they're deeper and deeper into crap at the end of each month because of the endless taxes rise it's not just "about money" and taxes. It's about them living barely decently yet and seing it getting worst. fast. In this case it's not governments. not being a plus in their life it's the government slowly but surely stopping them when from doing better overall on the long term. I hope you see what I mean. Kisses! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc 4,776 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 23 hours ago, Florian said: The problem is not Macron ! The problem is every presidents of the past 20 years who never dared to reform the country because it is unpopular and they wanted to be reelected. Our French social system (as amazing as it is) is on the verge of collapsing because nothing has been done for YEARS. French economy and demography isn't the same as 30 years ago, why should our social system stay the same when we don't have enough ressources to maintain it ?! If anything, Macron is actually brave for taking all the measures that should have been taken loooong ago and that our country is needing to maintain a good social system that will last in the future. He'll be the most hated President of the 5th Republic for taking very unpopular measures but I believe he's making ecessary changes. As a citizen it's a lot to take at once but we cannot wait 10 more years or France will sink. They've been saying the same tired stuff since the 80s in the Netherlands. Our system will 'collapse', these are 'necessary' changes, our policy is 'valueless', 'first the sour, then the sweet'. But there's not been any 'sweet' ever since they began. Well, except for one group of people. Income taxes for the rich have decreased from 72% to 49% and business taxes have decreased to a mere 21%, with huge and polluting companies like Shell paying 0.0% taxes. Here, people are realizing that the measures that have been taken went too far and the neo-liberals are facing a backlash, but it's too late. Our pension age is increasing to 71 by the time I'm old, schools are implementing four-day weeks because there's not enough teachers because the pay is too low, hospitals are going bankrupt because they've been privatized and lack proper funding, police don't do anything if you've been robbed or other 'small crime' because they don't have the funds and students have to take loans to study, we're on the way to an Americanized system. The growing inequality and dire circumstances of our public services provide the circumstances under which demagogues with racist rhetoric can grow (see, for example, this commercial by the far-right PVV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoBeCQhWFfY&t=1s). The same will happen in France if you don't resist and show that this is not the way to do it. Fact is that Macron is lowering taxes for the rich. If it was really about making the social system durable he wouldn't be cutting taxes for the rich and wealthy. He's americanizing your social system, your employment system and your tax system. All the economic growth the policy achieves will go to the rich, while the rest of the country (who actually need more money) face stagnating wages, stagnating employment and worsening employment conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillaume Hamon 7,046 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 14 hours ago, Luc said: They've been saying the same tired stuff since the 80s in the Netherlands. Our system will 'collapse', these are 'necessary' changes, our policy is 'valueless', 'first the sour, then the sweet'. But there's not been any 'sweet' ever since they began. Well, except for one group of people. Income taxes for the rich have decreased from 72% to 49% and business taxes have decreased to a mere 21%, with huge and polluting companies like Shell paying 0.0% taxes. Here, people are realizing that the measures that have been taken went too far and the neo-liberals are facing a backlash, but it's too late. Our pension age is increasing to 71 by the time I'm old, schools are implementing four-day weeks because there's not enough teachers because the pay is too low, hospitals are going bankrupt because they've been privatized and lack proper funding, police don't do anything if you've been robbed or other 'small crime' because they don't have the funds and students have to take loans to study, we're on the way to an Americanized system. The growing inequality and dire circumstances of our public services provide the circumstances under which demagogues with racist rhetoric can grow (see, for example, this commercial by the far-right PVV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoBeCQhWFfY&t=1s). The same will happen in France if you don't resist and show that this is not the way to do it. Fact is that Macron is lowering taxes for the rich. If it was really about making the social system durable he wouldn't be cutting taxes for the rich and wealthy. He's americanizing your social system, your employment system and your tax system. All the economic growth the policy achieves will go to the rich, while the rest of the country (who actually need more money) face stagnating wages, stagnating employment and worsening employment conditions. Exactly! I'm glad not everyone is falling for the super-liberal ideology with all the dishonest arguments they push to convince us with fear. :* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,896 Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillaume Hamon 7,046 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said: I wish it will be cancelled for good at the end... It would leave our purchasing power alone and let us go for better solutions that are way more efficient to protect the environment! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji 20,113 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Fourth weekend of protest and they still have my full support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillaume Hamon 7,046 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Benji said: Fourth weekend of protest and they still have my full support. The government accepted to cancel the project of taxe rise on the oils when the gilet jaunes started blocking oil refineries... They don't care about people striking for weeks, they just wake up when they do something that can harm economy... It's sad, all this mess was needed to finally listen to the 82% of french people against this law... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monketsharona 90,485 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 34 minutes ago, Guillaume Hamon said: The government accepted to cancel the project of taxe rise on the oils when the gilet jaunes started blocking oil refineries... They don't care about people striking for weeks, they just wake up when they do something that can harm economy... It's sad, all this mess was needed to finally listen to the 82% of french people against this law... Yeah but that doesn't change the fact a lot people can't live with all those taxes and prices rise that already occured with zero salary rise on the other end. That taxe rise on oil cancelled is just a detail. Just a little example : just look at how much stamps prices rised. It's only an example of course. It's just too much... I fully support the yellow vests movement (not the violence of course) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,896 Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,896 Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 Some of the people out there are burning cars and destroying property. Totally overshadows the ressons for protesting. This isn’t a war. Act like you have sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian 20,017 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Guillaume Hamon said: The government accepted to cancel the project of taxe rise on the oils when the gilet jaunes started blocking oil refineries... They don't care about people striking for weeks, they just wake up when they do something that can harm economy... It's sad, all this mess was needed to finally listen to the 82% of french people against this law... Refineries has been blocked since the first weekend It has nothing to do with that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarryNight 10,107 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,896 Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imnotyourbabe10 6,120 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 (Preface -- I am not really well-read on the current Paris protests -- just skimming the thread and reacting to a related topic). I agree that violence shouldn't be the first answer. However when people are peaceful, break bread and try to talk to the other side and still they get nowhere, escalation needs to happen. I don't want to see my friends, family or historical sites harmed, though. Seems like US citizens are not pissed off enough just yet (even by Trump and company) to retaliate. I mean look at housing, student debt, climate change, healthcare, neo-liberal ideologies running rampant, etc. I think the sit-in movement from the 60's is a good example. It was peaceful but the 'other side' reacted horribly to them doing no harm -- which is indicative of the protest working, in a way. Still had/has a long way to go. In the US, for example, modern society conveniently forgets destruction of private property as useful. Boston Tea Party, anyone? Even the Keystone Pipeline protests were peaceful and well-articulated/executed but the US used force on its own citizens executing their right. We gotta resist and take back the public spaces. Money and private property are social constructions anyway. (Off topic, but man, I wish Gaga explored that theme of "private in public" from the ARTPOP era in a political context!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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