Lily Allen makes offensive statement about Rochdale victims

[Haz 82]

I don’t think it’s racist to suggest that Britain has a problem with Asian men grooming young British girls. It’s a fact sadly and it’s a travesty in this day and age that it’s still happening, even with extensive media coverage.

Saying that I don’t think jumping to defensive conclusions when someone questions your belief is  the way forward in a conversation/debate.

@StrawberryBlond I understand your points and agree with you to an extent, but others are right when they say it’s nothing to do with their race, ethnicity or religion. It’s a personal ideology that drives someone to such a sick, perverted conclusion. 

[StrawberryBlond 15,668]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

... You opened a thread for discussion and that's what you got. Am I meant to just not reply to a thread that I have something to say about because I disagree with you? If you think that's mean, I honestly don't know what to tell you. Get a grip, I guess?

I'm fine with you replying and disagreeing with me. I just didn't like the way you phrased some things, like when you said: "But obviously you'd want to turn it into a race thing" and then later saying "how dense can you be?" Suggesting that I'm a racist and stupid really offends me. You could have presented your viewpoint without resorting to hurtful things like that particularly when I've not done the same to you. Mutual treatment wouldn't go amiss.

2 hours ago, Haz said:

I don’t think it’s racist to suggest that Britain has a problem with Asian men grooming young British girls. It’s a fact sadly and it’s a travesty in this day and age that it’s still happening, even with extensive media coverage.

Saying that I don’t think jumping to defensive conclusions when someone questions your belief is  the way forward in a conversation/debate.

@StrawberryBlond I understand your points and agree with you to an extent, but others are right when they say it’s nothing to do with their race, ethnicity or religion. It’s a personal ideology that drives someone to such a sick, perverted conclusion. 

I wouldn't feel the need to defend myself if people weren't accusing me of being racist and saying my beliefs are based on nothing but lies and scaremongering when I have solid evidence of it. If people were a lot more respectful, open-minded and not deliberately setting out to hurt me, this conversation would look very different.

If you think it has nothing to do with race, ethnicity or religion, do you take the same line with people who make it their mission to kill gays, blacks and prostitutes? Such crimes are borne out of a deep-rooted hatred of these groups and a massive disregard for their humanity. So, what's the difference when a group of non-white men purposely seek out white girls to abuse, not including victims from their own race or religion at all? I see that act as no different from the crimes I just presented, making the same pattern of linking that we do with similar crimes. Sure, anyone who wants to do this stuff is sick and perverted but some have an additional motivation that makes them a very specific breed of sick and perverted. The ones with specific tastes always seem more terrifying somehow, even if in theory, it would make the majority of us not at risk. I guess it's the whole concept of a "mission statement" in their mind that unnerves me more than anything.

[Harry 26,836]

9 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I'm fine with you replying and disagreeing with me. I just didn't like the way you phrased some things, like when you said: "But obviously you'd want to turn it into a race thing" and then later saying "how dense can you be?" Suggesting that I'm a racist and stupid really offends me. You could have presented your viewpoint without resorting to hurtful things like that particularly when I've not done the same to you. Mutual treatment wouldn't go amiss.

But you did turn it into a race thing after a history of doing so (“Beyonce is only so popular because she’s black” springs to mind), and you were being dense. 

How sad that it offends you when people call you out for your racist comments. Maybe stop saying racist things?

[StrawberryBlond 15,668]

14 hours ago, Harry said:

But you did turn it into a race thing after a history of doing so (“Beyonce is only so popular because she’s black” springs to mind), and you were being dense. 

How sad that it offends you when people call you out for your racist comments. Maybe stop saying racist things?

I didn't deny that I made I made it about race. I was disagreeing with the disparaging way you acknowledged this. And I never meant that Beyonce is only successful because she's black (if I did say that phrase in a post that I can't remember, forgive me). In the beginning, that wasn't true, but her Lemonade era is where she definitely benefited from being black, it was a contributing factor that's undeniable. She capitalised on the relevancy of BLM and no white artist could have pulled off the messages she did and got the praise and money that resulted from it either. Notice how she wasn't called out for the using these movements to get success but white artists are being accused of this? Have you seen the criticism of Justin Timberlake's new video?

I don't say racist things. It's other people's warped minds that interpret them as racist. It's only in this day and age that my every little word and phrase is being picked apart, people can't seem to understand innocent sayings, deliberately misinterpreting stuff to start a fight and whatnot. And I'm not just talking about race, it's everything. Listen to what someone's actually saying as opposed to what you think they're saying or what you want them to say.

[YeehawKylie 7,817]

On 1/9/2018 at 3:42 PM, StrawberryBlond said:

It's not a sad truth. Not all these girls were "at risk" or whatever you want to call it. Some of them came from middle class homes with supportive families, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But the truth is also undeniable that white girls are routinely preyed upon by men of certain backgrounds. Considering that these men originate from a place where lots of women are forced into covering themselves from head to toe, can get stoned to death for various transgressions and where honour killings happen...is it really surprising that they have a disrespectful view of white women and everything they represent? That they think any woman who doesn't cover herself and lives her life the way she wants is asking for it? Not all of them think that this, obviously, but we really underestimate how many of them do. A study published recently by a counter-radicalism think tank proclaimed that 84% of sex grooming gangs in the UK involved British-South Asian men. This report was led by 2 South Asian men. And they said these findings should be a wake up call to their community. I'm all for being anti-profiling and giving everyone a chance but sometimes, the truth has to be addressed and who's coming into the country needs to be vetted a whole lot better than it is.

Its been understood that you never suggest a rape victim could have been raped by someone else or could have had their situation made worse. That's just basic human compassion. She could easily have said something like "Yes, there is a problem with criminals entering our country but that doesn't mean that we should be distrustful of them all because of the few who give the many a bad name." Tsting implication about the victims. I read through almost all of these 900 comments and not one of them said anything about "not all men are like this."

01. Are you suggesting women from middle class homes with supportive families aren't at risk of rape? Plenty of middle class women from supportive homes get raped. You say these women were at the wrong place at the wrong time, which is true. It also speaks to how random and unpredictable rape is--which is why many women are at risk. 

02. White girls are routinely preyed upon by men of certain backgrounds. When I read that I immediately wanted to ask 'according to whom?' and ready further to see you mentioned a study. I see that you mentioned the study, but again, it's misleading. You say "white girls are routinely preyed upon by men of certain backgrounds" while the study you reference simply proclaims that 84% of sex grooming gangs in the UK involved South Asian men. The study is staggering and worrisome, but it doesn't entirely support your claim that "white girls are routinely preyed upon by men of certain backgrounds," which is a broad statement as it is. Are they preyed upon by these sex grooming gangs? Or men they encounter walking home at night, at a bar, or their boyfriend or date?

The British Crime Survey states that 89% of women assaulted knew their partner, while 54% were assaulted by a partner or ex-partner. Now, given your claim that "white women are routinely preyed upon by men of certain backgrounds," are we to believe that these women often date or are acquainted to these "men of certain backgrounds?" I'm not saying you're wrong, but to my knowledge rape statistics aren't released using race or ethnicity (if I'm wrong, please provide links as it would help the thread). What I am saying is that I think you're making a generalization. Unless you can find studies that use race or ethnicity as a factor or present a percentage of "sex grooming gangs" being responsible for a significant percentage of rapes in the U.K., I don't think you claim can really be backed up. 

03. I agree with you, Lily Allen attempted to make a point, but shrugging it off as "they probably would have been raped at some point" was not a way to make said point. It was insensitive to the women and to the point she attempted to make. 

[Tokyo Rose 1,475]

Female circumcision is obscene, you can't call yourself feminist on one hand, and with the other hand hold a sign encouraging the spread of a culture of people who still practice stonings in their government and obscene treatment of women. 

[StrawberryBlond 15,668]

22 hours ago, IndieKylie said:

01. Are you suggesting women from middle class homes with supportive families aren't at risk of rape? Plenty of middle class women from supportive homes get raped. You say these women were at the wrong place at the wrong time, which is true. It also speaks to how random and unpredictable rape is--which is why many women are at risk. 

02. White girls are routinely preyed upon by men of certain backgrounds. When I read that I immediately wanted to ask 'according to whom?' and ready further to see you mentioned a study. I see that you mentioned the study, but again, it's misleading. You say "white girls are routinely preyed upon by men of certain backgrounds" while the study you reference simply proclaims that 84% of sex grooming gangs in the UK involved South Asian men. The study is staggering and worrisome, but it doesn't entirely support your claim that "white girls are routinely preyed upon by men of certain backgrounds," which is a broad statement as it is. Are they preyed upon by these sex grooming gangs? Or men they encounter walking home at night, at a bar, or their boyfriend or date?

The British Crime Survey states that 89% of women assaulted knew their partner, while 54% were assaulted by a partner or ex-partner. Now, given your claim that "white women are routinely preyed upon by men of certain backgrounds," are we to believe that these women often date or are acquainted to these "men of certain backgrounds?" I'm not saying you're wrong, but to my knowledge rape statistics aren't released using race or ethnicity (if I'm wrong, please provide links as it would help the thread). What I am saying is that I think you're making a generalization. Unless you can find studies that use race or ethnicity as a factor or present a percentage of "sex grooming gangs" being responsible for a significant percentage of rapes in the U.K., I don't think you claim can really be backed up. 

03. I agree with you, Lily Allen attempted to make a point, but shrugging it off as "they probably would have been raped at some point" was not a way to make said point. It was insensitive to the women and to the point she attempted to make. 

1. No, any woman can get raped. All I am debating is Lily's assertion that all these girls were in the "at risk" category. You get defined this way if you live in a poor area, come from a broken home, have parents who have been in jail/are addicts, are surrounded by gang culture. Girls who come from areas like this are susceptible to teenage pregnancy, gang affiliation, drug addiction and yes, sexual abuse. My argument was that not all the girls came from this background, which is what Lily was suggesting and pointing out that she just went for the lazy stereotype to justify what happened.

2. Well, I'm glad that you take the study I provided seriously (most haven't even read it and even told me that I'm lying). But why don't you think it supports my theory that white women are preyed upon by men of certain backgrounds? It lays the facts out there, there's nothing more to say. It's really hard to put this down without sounding awful, but here goes...I think it's just hard to unpick the classic liberal thinking that "POC are never as bad as we're led to believe they are." While they're not all like this, obviously, the negative stereotypes of them have come about due to truth. It took me a long time to just accept that not all POC are the angels that liberals want to claim they are. They're just as flawed as any white person and as we never downplay white crime, why are we in the practice of downplaying non-white crime?

Yes, a lot of women know their attacker. But that still doesn't throw my theory out. Yes, when white women do date or are acquainted with these non-white men, there are shockingly high instances of them being abused by them. Unfortunately, no, race and ethnicity is rarely included abuse stats but when you can't get the stats, read the stories from the women who have been affected. It's tough reading, but the truth must be told. Here's a proper run down below, spoilered for length:

Spoiler

I've been reading current crime stories in a real life special that I've been reading every week for the last 8 years and I have read countless stories about white women who have been mistreated by foreign men. The new issue came out yesterday and the first story was about a 17 year old white girl who was stalked by the South Asian guy who delivered her takeaway until the point where he tracked her down to her sister's house 100 miles away, where she was alone, babysitting her nephew. She felt she couldn't turn him away, he sat on the sofa getting drunk with the whiskey he'd brought and he became aggressive when she didn't want to get intimate. He smashed the whiskey bottle into her face, dragged her upstairs and raped her twice while her nephew watched. She thankfully covertly called the police on his phone and he's now behind bars. Turned out he'd met other women through similar means before. And this is not an unusual case. That's just one example. It's common for Muslim men to claim to their white girlfriend that he's been keeping the relationship secret because his parents won't approve and sometimes, they're having affairs behind their wife's back as they didn't want to be in an arranged marriage.

It's not just South Asian Muslims who are guilty of things like this either. I knew a white girl from my dance class who said that she once dated an Indian man and he took her out to dinner with him and his friends. None of them could speak English fluently and they blatantly spoke Punjabi all night, not even glancing in her direction. It was only later when she asked him what they were talking about that he confessed they were asking him stuff like: "Where did you get this white girl?" "Is she dirty in bed?" and most shockingly of all, "When you're done with her, can we have a shot?" That's how brazen the objectification can be in these cultures. Just round the corner from where I live, there's an Indian restaurant and many years ago, a white girl came to start a job here, and she was going to help the 2 young Indian men clean the place out, just them. They told her to wear loose clothes for comfort. On the car on the way over, they talked amongst each other in Punjabi. They got to the restaurant and started cleaning and one of them offered her a drink and she reluctantly took it. Next thing, she wakes up not knowing where she is, the loose clothes they told her to wear are on backwards (they clearly told her this so they'd be easy to remove) and her hair was matted with semen. The place shut down not long after but this crime was completely covered up (I actually told my family who lived in this area and they had no idea), my only knowledge of it being from a true life column in a teen gossip magazine and I saw the photo and realised it was my area. My friend lives near a curry takeaway house and once told us that we couldn't get food from there as the men who run it are creepy and this was followed up by girls from my school telling me they'd gone there before and the Asian owners shamelessly flirted with them, even though they were underage. I remember being a teenager and having the Asian man in a corner shop tell me "how rare it is to see such a beautiful face in here, you'll be breaking hearts, honey." No white shopkeeper has ever been so familiar with me, left me feeling very weird. Throughout my whole life, I've never had a relationship with any man, truth be told, but almost all the time, the few men who have ever leered at me have been non-white men and this culture of leering has been relayed to me by other white women, they seem to stare at you really lustfully in a way that makes you truly uncomfortable.

And again, let's change races here. White women in Thailand on holiday have long been the victims of date rape by local Thai men and the true extent of the crimes is covered up local authorities as they outright tell victims that it's bad for tourism. And men from certain parts of Africa, mainly Ghana, are infamous for scamming white women overseas in online dating profiles, building up a relationship, telling them they love them and want to marry them and then invent money problems so the women hand over their life savings and end up draining their accounts. Some even deliberately do it to older women in the hopes they'll be even more flattered and grateful for affection from a 20-something.

As you can see, it's a global problem. White women are routinely getting preyed on by foreign men, either in their native countries or as immigrants. Are they all like this? No. But there's enough to make you worry how widespread the problem is and makes you even more cautious at the idea of dating these men. While white men are capable of committing the same crimes, there are cultural problems presented sometimes that just won't be present with white men.

But whenever I bring up this stuff, I'm always accused of overexaggerating or even lying or being told there's no real problem at all. And funnily enough, it's usually liberal white men telling me this. A lot of them are blind to the plight of their own women because they don't see it, so it doesn't exist. And white women can be as equally unaware, if they've never witnessed it for themselves. But I've seen the real truth and it's not pretty.

3. I'm glad you agree that she just could her worded her valid opinion better.

I don't know if you'll support everything I had to say and I know it's tough to read this stuff as a liberal but the gravity of the situation needs to be talked about and I think it's high time white victims are listened to without justifications coming their way. But I have to say, thank you so much for being polite and respectful and even saying: "I'm not saying you're wrong" and being open minded. Very few people are like that and if only all my conversations were like this, things would be so much better.

22 hours ago, Tokyo Rose said:

Female circumcision is obscene, you can't call yourself feminist on one hand, and with the other hand hold a sign encouraging the spread of a culture of people who still practice stonings in their government and obscene treatment of women. 

I don't support an downfall of Islam but I do think the religion as a whole has to move into the 21st century. Too many of its followers are misinterpreting text and being radicalised and Islam when practicised traditionally has no place in the modern day. Just as Christianity modernised and dismisses dogmatic versions of itself, so too should Islam modernise and get a better reputation. I don't know how the change is going to be brought about, though.

[Harry 26,836]

On 18/01/2018 at 11:50 PM, StrawberryBlond said:

Listen to what someone's actually saying as opposed to what you think they're saying or what you want them to say.

This has to be the most sadly ironic thing I've ever read in my life.

Do you ever hear yourself?

[StrawberryBlond 15,668]

22 hours ago, Harry said:

This has to be the most sadly ironic thing I've ever read in my life.

Do you ever hear yourself?

Yes, I do hear myself. I'm a very self-aware person. It's the likes of you who are reading too much into what I'm saying. How is it that you're allowed to claim that I'm implying unsavoury undertones but I'm not allowed to suggest the same of anyone else? I'm not the fake person you seem to think I am. Surely if I were fake, I wouldn't be attracting controversy because I would be keeping my true feelings silent?

[Harry 26,836]

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yes, I do hear myself. I'm a very self-aware person. It's the likes of you who are reading too much into what I'm saying. How is it that you're allowed to claim that I'm implying unsavoury undertones but I'm not allowed to suggest the same of anyone else? I'm not the fake person you seem to think I am. Surely if I were fake, I wouldn't be attracting controversy because I would be keeping my true feelings silent?

I don't think you're fake - on the contrary, actually.  I do however just think you're kind of clueless, and certainly not self-aware.

[StrawberryBlond 15,668]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

I don't think you're fake - on the contrary, actually.  I do however just think you're kind of clueless, and certainly not self-aware.

You called me fake in the past. I'm not clueless, you just haven't talked to me on a respectful level and tried to get to know me to work out who I am. I find it very offensive how you accuse me of such a thing when I'm an educated person with a degree and considering you don't know the first thing about who I really am. And I'm self aware enough to address my flaws whereas you won't. You just act stuck up and like you're better than everyone. I seem to have been attracting these types on GGD as of late. People who think they are perfectly entitled to criticise me, call me names, accuse me of all sorts and smear my reputation but apparently, I can't call them out on for it or tell them some home truths.

[Harry 26,836]

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

You called me fake in the past. I'm not clueless, you just haven't talked to me on a respectful level and tried to get to know me to work out who I am. I find it very offensive how you accuse me of such a thing when I'm an educated person with a degree and considering you don't know the first thing about who I really am. And I'm self aware enough to address my flaws whereas you won't. You just act stuck up and like you're better than everyone. I seem to have been attracting these types on GGD as of late. People who think they are perfectly entitled to criticise me, call me names, accuse me of all sorts and smear my reputation but apparently, I can't call them out on for it or tell them some home truths.

Then I guess neither of us are receptive to criticism! Or maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[LateToCult 42,128]

Why doesn’t this thread die? Million Reasons is shook.  

OT: Who is Lilly Allen?

[StrawberryBlond 15,668]

On 1/23/2018 at 12:03 AM, Harry said:

Then I guess neither of us are receptive to criticism! Or maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Whatever. I just don't want us to fight anymore. When I'm being neutral and civil with people, I wish they wouldn't respond with nastiness.

23 hours ago, LateToCult said:

Why doesn’t this thread die? Million Reasons is shook.  

OT: Who is Lilly Allen?

Because people keep quoting me, so I have to keep replying.

Lily's a British singer, who had hits with Smile, The Fear and her cover of Somewhere Only We Know for a John Lewis Christmas ad. She never truly broke America. She took a big break after her first two albums to become a mother and her 2014 comeback flopped. She's currently working on her new album and has become a more political celebrity recently, calling out politicians, dishonest press reporting, visiting the Calais jungle, that kinda thing. Problem is, she ends up being a hypocrite many times and it makes her look really bad. She claimed to want to house refugees but has yet to do so.