Lily Allen makes offensive statement about Rochdale victims

[Haz 82]

8 minutes ago, Melech said:

Well it was safer this year for sure. 

And I am not saying migrants shouldn't come to Germany but ignoring the problems won't get us much far as well 

I'm with you completely. Help those who want to help themselves, e.g. those who have paperwork and can be vetted rather than those who burn their paperwork to prevent their criminal past being uncovered and them subsequently being deported.

[Bebe 17,289]

25 minutes ago, Melech said:

Why not talking about everything equally? There were mass sexual harassment in Cologne New years in 2015 and it was mostly by North African migrants and it would be wrong to totally ignore the cultural aspect of it. 

Obviously people from different countries have different attitudes to women, LGBT people etc. 
I just didn't feel the need to mention it, because it wasn't pertinent to what I was discussing.

A member said:

"when white men do it, suddenly, there's no hesitation in barging in and getting justice served, which is the way things should be done. But a sex ring involving members of a non-white race? Tip toe around it and disbelieve the victims."

I responded by pointing out that actually, there have been multiple cover ups of white men and sex rings. There have been multiple cases where victims of these white men are ignored or the authorities don't believe them, there have been multiple instances where authorities have tiptoed around white male sex offenders and sex-rings.

That's all I responded to - what you just mentioned has nothing to do with that.

[StrawberryBlond 15,668]

On 1/11/2018 at 1:25 AM, Morphine Prince said:

You inserted it here, racist. 

Who are you? I can say whatever I want without having to consider you. 

Get riled up all you want. 

I talk about it where it needs to be mentioned, I don't bring it up unnecessarily. And you were the one who just came in calling me a racist. What was I supposed to do, take it?

Pardon me, I just say stuff around here with the consideration of every member and if what I say might hurt them or not. It's called being a compassionate human being.

On 1/11/2018 at 1:28 AM, uo111 said:

When I originally responded I was only talking about Lily Allen’s tweet. I didn’t read your post because it wasn’t the article, it was your opinion and I didn’t care to read you opinion about Lily Allen when the title of the thread itself was false.

Life is complicated, your “either every brown person is weak or every brown person is a rapist, there is no other choice!” statement is simple-minded, demeaning, and nonsensical.

What do you want me to do with it? Obviously it’s untrue and ignores simple truths like not every situation is the same and not every person is the same.

And then you lecture me of not knowing events in the UK while telling me how women in Germany, France and Sweden feel in the same breath. You must know how hypocrtical that is?

You are afraid of every brown person in the world because of the actions of 84 men in one city. And a star suggesting that white men also rape and banning muslis would not solve rape made you so angry that you had to come post about it here. You understand why your, “liberals are so dumb,” rhetoric is hard to take seriously.

It may have been my opinion but it all related to the article in question. But it was a long post, so fair enough. But, if you had read the article in full, you would have picked up on why race was a factor. So, you clearly didn't read the article either.

Whoa, I said no such thing. You have completely misinterpreted what I said if that's what you took away from it. I made no comparison to brown people being weak or rapists, with no in between, I was saying that they either hold power or they don't. You clearly haven't read what I said properly, go back and look at it.

What do you mean, what do I want you to do with it? Read it to educate yourself on the reality. You've just assumed the figures are untrue despite no counter argument as to why it can't be the case. You have just seen a shocking headline that doesn't suit your agenda and automatically, a switch has gone off in your brain that says "this can't be true as I don't want to believe it is." The article says nothing about every situation being the same, neither does it say that every person is the same. The case was presented by 2 Muslims who said these stats are proof that something needs to be done in their community. Thankfully, not every member of their community wants to bury their head in the sand. I can't imagine how it's good for their image as law-abiding Muslims to continue to let this practice go on, which tarnishes the image of all Muslims. It's outrageous how as soon as non-white perpetrators come to the fore, liberals contort themselves into every possible position to excuse them in some way, to soften the severity of what they've done, disregard their victims, insist that it's not their whole community who does this. You never do that for white perpetrators. As a liberal myself, I'm against double standards. Treat every criminal and victim the same, no matter what colour their skin is.

Wow, you just bulldozed right over every single shocking event I just listed just to get an accusation of being hypocritical in there. Did not one part of those stories touch you in any way that you feel the need to comment on them? But to address your point, at least I'm from the same continent as these countries and secondly, if I ever speak about anything that happens in another country, I always do lots of research into it to ensure I'm informed first. Those stories that I provided are the result of months of accumulative research into the refugee crisis and listening to the translated accounts of locals. Which is a lot more than I can say for you, who hasn't even read the article that I posted in full and yet thinks you're justified in telling me what the situation is in my own country. This side of my country is concealed to even us locals (especially if we've been raised in liberal circles who deliberately avoid discussing the dark underbelly of our society and insisting everything's fine), we have to find it out for ourselves through living there and finding out stuff behind closed doors. I didn't even know about the Rochdale scandal and the volume of similar gangs that were spread all over the country until very recently, that's how well the media kept me out of the loop. So, exactly how do you expect an outsider to have any clue about this?

I never said I was afraid of every brown person in the world. Just last night, I was dancing with 2 of them, one of whom had just got off the plane from India earlier that day. Thankfully, not everyone in the community has regressive ideology and are happy to mix with whites and treat them as equals. If every one of them were like this, there would be no problems. But as we've seen in the case discussed, not all of them think this way and it's important that we locate such people and make sure they can do no harm to others. For your information, the UK is a lot more connected than you make out. I could travel from one end of the country to the other in little over a day. I was in the region of where these attacks too place last month and it took me just a few hours to get there. Because of this, actions of the people in one city can hit hard, it's much closer to home as opposed to say, something bad happening in NY when you're in LA. And it also makes you release that such gangs could easily migrate to another region further north or something. I mean, the entire population of my country (Scotland) has less people than one American city, to put it into perspective. And I never claimed that white men didn't rape, I just said when they do, it's handled differently. I never said I wanted to ban all Muslims, just ones who have criminal convictions and/or are religiously radical (and I think the same for anyone wanting to come into my country with the same criteria). And I never said that banning Muslims would mean rape would stop. Let me put it this way - the UK already has enough of its own men raping, the last thing we need is rapists being imported from abroad, adding to the problem, making our women even more unsafe. If your country has created a monster, they're your responsibility to deal with, not to allow them to become the responsibilities of other countries. And once again, I am a liberal. I'm just not from the PC or SJW branch and am prepared to call out the flaws within the side.

On 1/11/2018 at 1:08 PM, Bebe said:

I'm going to hate myself for entering this discussion honestly, but let's be real with ourselves here.

It's not like, idk, in Ireland there was a shocking extent of abuse, cover-ups and hierarchical failings involving thousands of victims and stretching back decades from the Catholic Church... Hundreds of priests had abused thousands of children. The Dublin archdiocese operated in a culture of concealment, placing the integrity of its institutions above the welfare of the children in its care.

It's not like, idk, the British parliament was accused of covering up a pedophile network filled with important VIPs, MP's and people associated with the British Government. Westminster paedophile dossier?

Jehovah’s Witnesses have claimed they were told not to report allegations of child abuse, as the organisation was accused of sheltering abusers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/jehovahs-witnesses-claim-told-not-report-child-sex-abuse-organisation/

 

The Church of England has been accused of repeatedly covering up abuse
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5163161/Church-England-faces-new-sex-abuse-cover-row.html

Hell even former England manager Graham Taylor was involved in a cover-up at Aston Villa which led to young boys being exposed to a paedophile who had been working as a scout for the Birmingham-based club
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/853780/england-football-aston-villa-manager-graham-taylor-sexual-abuse-inquiry-cover-up

It's also not like there wasn't any tip-toeing around figures like Jimmy Savile?  

Come off it, there are cover ups when it comes to white men. There is the disbelief of victims. There are white communities who band together to hide abuse committed it's members. There isn't a scary pedophile underworld full of brown people who feel untouchable by the law - I'd be more worried about the white men in positions of power, they're the ones likely to get away with awful abuses.

I think there's a big misconception going on here - you believe that I think only non-whites are to blame. Actually, there are so many corrupt avenues in this world and I rant and rave about all of them. Just because I want to put the focus on an issue with a specific non-white community for a minute, you think that's the only area I think it's worth demonising? It's like talking about sexism with men and the first thing they want to do is change the subject or tell you that men have it bad too. It's the exact same rhetoric. Whenever something comes up that doesn't match your agenda, deny it and change the subject.

Granted, I should have made my position a bit clearer. I meant that white rapists who are regular citizens always get investigated when there are claims made, there's no question about it. Obviously, if they're celebrities, they nearly always get protected because money and fame talks. Literally every nation on earth is like this. It's not about race, it's about the power that celebrities command. They're being protected because they're famous, not because they're white. And you also provide to me instances of abuse within Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses, which is religion and again, protected (don't know why, honestly), not because they have majority white followings but because religion is seen as something sacred to be respected, even if you don't follow it. And as you'll have seen in one of my previous posts, I stated that I want all religious institutions to be routinely inspected, not just the Muslim ones. Even as a believer in God myself, I am well aware how religion can corrupt and I want to make sure no one ever suffers because of corrupt followers.

And also, this is a real laugh...every source you posted is courtesy of a right wing newspaper! I thought you were claiming that conservative media always try to hush up scandals happening in their community and protect the reputation of whites in general! And here you just prove that they are willing to report on the stuff that you claim they try to hide or deny! This just proves that conservative media isn't always as biased as you claim and also that you're prepared to support these sources when they say something that fits your agenda. You never trust articles from these sources when they say something you disagree with, but suddenly, when they say something that you believe in, they're suddenly shining a light on the real truth. And those who have liked your comments showed themselves up for the same reason. And you wonder why your positions are so hard to take seriously when you throw previously held convictions out the window so easily when it makes your argument look good?

By the way, not so fun fact, I was once in the same hotel bar as Jimmy Savile, I was on the seat right beside his bar stool...when I was 12. For the record, a lot of people thought that guy was creepy for years, especially women. We couldn't get why so many people viewed him as some sort of national treasure. He was protected not only because he was a celebrity but because society is notoriously shortsighted when it comes to seeing "lovable" figures for who they truly are. This is a problem facing all societies, not just white ones. That is why, as you're saying, some communities can band together to defend its accused members. Protecting your own is an age old principle and it's present in us all to some degree. To act like it's just whites that do it is simply untrue. And it is also untrue to say there isn't an underworld of brown people who feel untouchable by the law. Because there totally is (notice how you were all for believing white victims until they're abused by a non-white person?). All the information's out there, you just don't want to go looking for it as you have stubbornly decided that you don't want to believe in it. To quote a comedian: "I don't believe in gravity, but you don't see me flying." Basically, just because you believe something doesn't make it so.

On 1/11/2018 at 2:21 PM, Haz said:

Lily Allen infuriates me, she is a walking hypocrite. If they where white attackers she'd be all over it like a Corbynite is to Venezuelan politics. 

Britain now has a culture where mainstream media now has to cover up anything negative about the BME communities in the UK to not come under fire from the loony left. Recently there was an article written in The Sun by the Labour MP for Rochdale, who admitted the UK did have a problem with Asian men grooming young girls - because let's face it, for every 1 white grooming gang there's probably 5 Asian ones in the UK - and that's not racist, if you think it is then do take a trip to Rochdale, Oldham, Blackburn and other northern communities and speak to victims and authorities. 

It's a problem that needs to be rooted out - not necessarily by deportation or denial of entry to the UK because all the UK Border Force can go on is previous convictions, which in most cases is non-existent. 

As controversial as your post it, you're right. People are all too happy to say they support victims of abuse but you won't find them actually going to these communities and speaking to the victims and local police forces because if they did, everything they were led to be believe up until this point was a lie. It's understandable to believe that the majority race in your country is the ones responsible for the most rapes, after all. But sometimes, that logic isn't always infalliable. Asians (all Asians, the entire breadth of nationalities and religions) make up just 7% of the UK population. Muslims specifically make up just 4.4% of  the country. And as Islam isn't a race, not all of that 4.4% figure might even be Asian, which means that the actual figure of Asian Muslims will be even lower. And take in that the majority of sex abuse reports are from specifically the Pakistani Muslim community, the figure goes even lower than that (Pakistanis make up just 1.9% of the UK population according to the 2011 consensus). So, when there are this many sex abuse reports coming out of this teeny sub-demographic, it really gives you pause for thought. Let's not pretend for one minute that if there was a country that only had whites at 1.9% of its population, yet 7 out of 10 of them were responsible for reported rapes in the nation, there would be mass vilification of them and everything "toxic white culture" stands for by liberals.

But yes, outright denial of entry is not what I want either. I just want there to be much harsher restrictions in place to hopefully prevent such people being allowed here, regardless of race or religion. Surely wanting only peaceful, non-criminals to emigrate to your country is the least one can ask for?

On 1/11/2018 at 3:05 PM, Bebe said:

Obviously people from different countries have different attitudes to women, LGBT people etc. 
I just didn't feel the need to mention it, because it wasn't pertinent to what I was discussing.

How is it not pertinent? It stands to reason that those who have been raised in a country (or in a family, if they were born here) that encourages women to cover from head to toe and teaches that homosexuality is a sin might grow up to have some very concerning views about the world and how certain people deserve to be treated. You don't think that could have any potential link between these shocking sex abuse claims and these teachings?

[Bebe 17,289]

3 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I think there's a big misconception going on here - you believe that I think only non-whites are to blame. Actually, there are so many corrupt avenues in this world and I rant and rave about all of them. Just because I want to put the focus on an issue with a specific non-white community for a minute, you think that's the only area I think it's worth demonising? It's like talking about sexism with men and the first thing they want to do is change the subject or tell you that men have it bad too. It's the exact same rhetoric. Whenever something comes up that doesn't match your agenda, deny it and change the subject.

Granted, I should have made my position a bit clearer. I meant that white rapists who are regular citizens always get investigated when there are claims made, there's no question about it. Obviously, if they're celebrities, they nearly always get protected because money and fame talks. Literally every nation on earth is like this. It's not about race, it's about the power that celebrities command. They're being protected because they're famous, not because they're white. And you also provide to me instances of abuse within Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses, which is religion and again, protected (don't know why, honestly), not because they have majority white followings but because religion is seen as something sacred to be respected, even if you don't follow it. And as you'll have seen in one of my previous posts, I stated that I want all religious institutions to be routinely inspected, not just the Muslim ones. Even as a believer in God myself, I am well aware how religion can corrupt and I want to make sure no one ever suffers because of corrupt followers.

And also, this is a real laugh...every source you posted is courtesy of a right wing newspaper! I thought you were claiming that conservative media always try to hush up scandals happening in their community and protect the reputation of whites in general! And here you just prove that they are willing to report on the stuff that you claim they try to hide or deny! This just proves that conservative media isn't always as biased as you claim and also that you're prepared to support these sources when they say something that fits your agenda. You never trust articles from these sources when they say something you disagree with, but suddenly, when they say something that you believe in, they're suddenly shining a light on the real truth. And those who have liked your comments showed themselves up for the same reason. And you wonder why your positions are so hard to take seriously when you throw previously held convictions out the window so easily when it makes your argument look good?

By the way, not so fun fact, I was once in the same hotel bar as Jimmy Savile, I was on the seat right beside his bar stool...when I was 12. For the record, a lot of people thought that guy was creepy for years, especially women. We couldn't get why so many people viewed him as some sort of national treasure. He was protected not only because he was a celebrity but because society is notoriously shortsighted when it comes to seeing "lovable" figures for who they truly are. This is a problem facing all societies, not just white ones. That is why, as you're saying, some communities can band together to defend its accused members. Protecting your own is an age old principle and it's present in us all to some degree. To act like it's just whites that do it is simply untrue. And it is also untrue to say there isn't an underworld of brown people who feel untouchable by the law. Because there totally is (notice how you were all for believing white victims until they're abused by a non-white person?). All the information's out there, you just don't want to go looking for it as you have stubbornly decided that you don't want to believe in it. To quote a comedian: "I don't believe in gravity, but you don't see me flying." Basically, just because you believe something doesn't make it so.

 

How is it not pertinent? It stands to reason that those who have been raised in a country (or in a family, if they were born here) that encourages women to cover from head to toe and teaches that homosexuality is a sin might grow up to have some very concerning views about the world and how certain people deserve to be treated. You don't think that could have any potential link between these shocking sex abuse claims and these teachings?

"I think there's a big misconception going on here - you believe that I think only non-whites are to blame. Actually, there are so many corrupt avenues in this world and I rant and rave about all of them. Just because I want to put the focus on an issue with a specific non-white community for a minute, you think that's the only area I think it's worth demonising? It's like talking about sexism with men and the first thing they want to do is change the subject or tell you that men have it bad too. It's the exact same rhetoric. Whenever something comes up that doesn't match your agenda, deny it and change the subject."

I responded to a specific claim you made which is ""when white men do it, suddenly, there's no hesitation in barging in and getting justice served, which is the way things should be done. But a sex ring involving members of a non-white race? Tip toe around it and disbelieve the victims."

YOU SAID THAT. I pointed out that it wasn't true  

"Granted, I should have made my position a bit clearer. I meant that white rapists who are regular citizens always get investigated when there are claims made, there's no question about it"

You don't think priests are regular citizens? Here's thing, I totally get that the community protected these abusers - but that's not something knew. The Catholic community protects it's own, MP's protect their own. Lets not pretend like the brown people have free reign to do whatever they want to do and have special protection from the law. YES, in this case brown men were protected, the police was weary to investigate, but that's true of groups containing largely white men as well. Authorities response to sexual abuse is frankly consistently pretty piss poor.

"And also, this is a real laugh...every source you posted is courtesy of a right wing newspaper! I thought you were claiming that conservative media always try to hush up scandals happening in their community and protect the reputation of whites in general! And here you just prove that they are willing to report on the stuff that you claim they try to hide or deny! This just proves that conservative media isn't always as biased as you claim"

Umm. Yeah, I know the reputation of those outlets, and I've always been aware that right-wing papers cover the news? You're finding this a lot more shocking and amusing then me. I've never said that or tried to claim that? I think that it's just another example of you either making something up, assuming that I think in a certain way or building some ridiculous strawman out of what I've written in order to try and catch me out. 

"This is a problem facing all societies, not just white ones. That is why, as you're saying, some communities can band together to defend its accused members. Protecting your own is an age old principle and it's present in us all to some degree. To act like it's just whites that do it is simply untrue."

I'm not acting as if only white people molest children, what are you talking about? All I did was reply to your ludicrous claim that when white people do it: The victims are believed straight away and justice is served immediately! That's not true.

"(notice how you were all for believing white victims until they're abused by a non-white person?)"

How awful of you to suggest I don't believe victims - there is NOTHING in my statement that would imply I EVER would disbelieve a white victim if they were abused by a non-white person. Of course brown people molest people, of course their victims can be white. How terrible of you to make such an accusation based on nothing.


"How is it not pertinent? It stands to reason that those who have been raised in a country (or in a family, if they were born here) that encourages women to cover from head to toe and teaches that homosexuality is a sin might grow up to have some very concerning views about the world and how certain people deserve to be treated. You don't think that could have any potential link between these shocking sex abuse claims and these teachings?"

Err, yes I obviously do think that... It doesn't take a genius to figure out that people's beliefs towards women or LGBT people affects their behaviour towards women or LGBT people. I've actually spoken about that in other threads. It just isn't relevant and pertinent to what I was talking about was it? I think I've been pretty clear already about how the two topics are a totally separate topic of discussion.

[StrawberryBlond 15,668]

23 hours ago, Bebe said:

I responded to a specific claim you made which is ""when white men do it, suddenly, there's no hesitation in barging in and getting justice served, which is the way things should be done. But a sex ring involving members of a non-white race? Tip toe around it and disbelieve the victims."

YOU SAID THAT. I pointed out that it wasn't true

You don't think priests are regular citizens? Here's thing, I totally get that the community protected these abusers - but that's not something knew. The Catholic community protects it's own, MP's protect their own. Lets not pretend like the brown people have free reign to do whatever they want to do and have special protection from the law. YES, in this case brown men were protected, the police was weary to investigate, but that's true of groups containing largely white men as well. Authorities response to sexual abuse is frankly consistently pretty piss poor.

Umm. Yeah, I know the reputation of those outlets, and I've always been aware that right-wing papers cover the news? You're finding this a lot more shocking and amusing then me. I've never said that or tried to claim that? I think that it's just another example of you either making something up, assuming that I think in a certain way or building some ridiculous strawman out of what I've written in order to try and catch me out.

I'm not acting as if only white people molest children, what are you talking about? All I did was reply to your ludicrous claim that when white people do it: The victims are believed straight away and justice is served immediately! That's not true.

"(notice how you were all for believing white victims until they're abused by a non-white person?)"

How awful of you to suggest I don't believe victims - there is NOTHING in my statement that would imply I EVER would disbelieve a white victim if they were abused by a non-white person. Of course brown people molest people, of course their victims can be white. How terrible of you to make such an accusation based on nothing.

Err, yes I obviously do think that... It doesn't take a genius to figure out that people's beliefs towards women or LGBT people affects their behaviour towards women or LGBT people. I've actually spoken about that in other threads. It just isn't relevant and pertinent to what I was talking about was it? I think I've been pretty clear already about how the two topics are a totally separate topic of discussion.

I wasn't talking about celebrities when I said that quote. You were. Big difference.

Priests are regular citizens to me, but not to everyone else. They have special rights because of their position. I don't agree with it but it is what it is. But yes, the authorities response to sexual abuse in general can be terrible. But that doesn't mean that they're not inconsistent when it comes to who they decide to investigate more than others all the same.

Funny, I give the same response when people laugh at me for reading the DM - I say that I just read it for the news, not to support a political agenda. But that's not good enough for a lot of you. Whenever I've provided stories from conservative sources, liberals never want to read it, which is infuriating. But they don't trust me, I'm a "bad," liberal, I'm a conservative in disguise or something. Why should anyone trust the sources I provide? But suddenly, you submit some and because they trust you, you're a "good" liberal, they suddenly think conservative sources are a-ok and they're being truthful when they talk about something that supports their agenda. And people call me fake?

No, I was referring to your accusation that whites always band together to protect attackers. I've seen many times that this isn't true.

I said that you seemed to disbelieve the white victims when they were abused by a non white because your attitude seems to change when that's the case. To be more specific, it's like you justify their abuse. Like Lily was doing, insinuating that getting raped was going to be inevitable for them.

How are they two separate topics? There's a clear link between the two - a habit of seeing their own women as virtuous and to be protected because they're from their culture and covvered, and viewing white women as worthless because they're not from their culture and wear whatever they want. Let's not pretend why these men chose these girls. A lot of them had families of their own. How odd that they were attracted to a woman of their own race enough to marry her and yet, when they went out doing illicit sexual stuff, it was always underage white girls they chose. That tells you a lot about how racially motivated they were.

[Harry 26,836]

You have to be really dumb if you think that Lily intended to be victim blaming with this statement. It's not downplaying the attacks and it's certainly not defending the perpetrators. Yeah it may not have been the best timed and/or worded response to the question, but she was clearly making a wider statement about how rife sexual assault is.

But obviously you'd want to turn it into a race thing, saying that she's "defending" the attackers just because they are non-white despite the fact that her comment didn't contain a single reference to race. I'm really not surprised at all.

[judxs 762]

People on here agreeing that these girls would have been raped 'eventually' are making me feel sick. That is such a disgusting way to think about it. They were raped by a grooming GANG, which is something the UK has hardly ever had to deal with before. They aren't a common thing in our society, so no, they probably wouldn't have been raped 'eventually'.

[StrawberryBlond 15,668]

17 hours ago, Harry said:

You have to be really dumb if you think that Lily intended to be victim blaming with this statement. It's not downplaying the attacks and it's certainly not defending the perpetrators. Yeah it may not have been the best timed and/or worded response to the question, but she was clearly making a wider statement about how rife sexual assault is.

But obviously you'd want to turn it into a race thing, saying that she's "defending" the attackers just because they are non-white despite the fact that her comment didn't contain a single reference to race. I'm really not surprised at all.

Come on, we haven't talked/argued in ages. I thought we'd moved on from all that bitterness. I was actually hoping to get in touch to make it up with you but I don't know if you want to now. Why have you suddenly come back and are acting like you're against me all over again? We've never even had arguments around race before, so my only guess is that you've picked up on what other people have said around here and run with it, which is unfair.

Of course I don't think she was genuinely meaning to hurt these girls with that statement but it was offensive all the same and aren't we always being told that intent doesn't matter if it hurts people? Her comment didn't need to contain a reference to race to be coded. I know it's coded because I have seen this argument come up repeatedly in SJW circles when it involves non white perpetrator/white victim. When it's white on white or white on non-white, no such justifications of inevitable sexual abuse are considered, you'd get slammed to hell and back if you did. But suddenly, when it's a non-white person who's committed the crime, it's justifications aplenty, the victims aren't treated with the same respect. But until now, it was just regular citizens who I heard make these double standards. Now celebrities are at it and we know how celebrity opinion can influence the public and sway things, so it's highly dangerous that myths of inevitable rape are doing the rounds. Saying that a girl was bound to get sexually abused because of where she lived and her background is just as bad as saying a girl was bound to get sexually assaulted for going out wearing a short skirt at night. Putting the focus on the victim for what happened to them is never the way to go, according to SJWs. But apparently, they can pick and choose when to believe in this philosophy when they've got a liberal agenda to push and protect and vilifying non-white criminals is not part of that agenda.

17 hours ago, judxs said:

People on here agreeing that these girls would have been raped 'eventually' are making me feel sick. That is such a disgusting way to think about it. They were raped by a grooming GANG, which is something the UK has hardly ever had to deal with before. They aren't a common thing in our society, so no, they probably wouldn't have been raped 'eventually'.

So glad that someone's seeing sense. It is beyond comprehension why anyone would think it was acceptable to say that a rape victim's situation was inevitable. Because that's exactly what they're saying, no matter what spin they try to put on it. Inevitable sexual abuse is a dangerous myth that needs to be dispelled. Hardly invokes confidence in girls who are at risk, does it? Don't try to fight it, you're going to get abused, don't blame anyone else, deal with it! What a disgusting message.

However, grooming gangs are hardly new to the UK. It was just that they were underground for a long time and a lot of people didn't understand what grooming was so didn't know how to handle it. Also, until fairly recently, it was mostly just white men doing the grooming but with the influx of immigration over the last decade or so, more and more foreign grooming gangs, consisting of Muslim immigrants or British-born Muslims, have started cropping up all over the place. And it sounds awful to inset religion/race into the equation but like it or not, it's the reality, I'm just telling the facts. Bringing up these specifics are important when it comes to pinpointing why they did the grooming, i.e. racist feelings towards white women, believeing them to be worthless because they're not part of their race, community or religion.

[Morphine Prince 109,962]

On 1/12/2018 at 6:17 PM, Bebe said:

"I think there's a big misconception going on here - you believe that I think only non-whites are to blame. Actually, there are so many corrupt avenues in this world and I rant and rave about all of them. Just because I want to put the focus on an issue with a specific non-white community for a minute, you think that's the only area I think it's worth demonising? It's like talking about sexism with men and the first thing they want to do is change the subject or tell you that men have it bad too. It's the exact same rhetoric. Whenever something comes up that doesn't match your agenda, deny it and change the subject."

I responded to a specific claim you made which is ""when white men do it, suddenly, there's no hesitation in barging in and getting justice served, which is the way things should be done. But a sex ring involving members of a non-white race? Tip toe around it and disbelieve the victims."

YOU SAID THAT. I pointed out that it wasn't true  

"Granted, I should have made my position a bit clearer. I meant that white rapists who are regular citizens always get investigated when there are claims made, there's no question about it"

You don't think priests are regular citizens? Here's thing, I totally get that the community protected these abusers - but that's not something knew. The Catholic community protects it's own, MP's protect their own. Lets not pretend like the brown people have free reign to do whatever they want to do and have special protection from the law. YES, in this case brown men were protected, the police was weary to investigate, but that's true of groups containing largely white men as well. Authorities response to sexual abuse is frankly consistently pretty piss poor.

"And also, this is a real laugh...every source you posted is courtesy of a right wing newspaper! I thought you were claiming that conservative media always try to hush up scandals happening in their community and protect the reputation of whites in general! And here you just prove that they are willing to report on the stuff that you claim they try to hide or deny! This just proves that conservative media isn't always as biased as you claim"

Umm. Yeah, I know the reputation of those outlets, and I've always been aware that right-wing papers cover the news? You're finding this a lot more shocking and amusing then me. I've never said that or tried to claim that? I think that it's just another example of you either making something up, assuming that I think in a certain way or building some ridiculous strawman out of what I've written in order to try and catch me out. 

"This is a problem facing all societies, not just white ones. That is why, as you're saying, some communities can band together to defend its accused members. Protecting your own is an age old principle and it's present in us all to some degree. To act like it's just whites that do it is simply untrue."

I'm not acting as if only white people molest children, what are you talking about? All I did was reply to your ludicrous claim that when white people do it: The victims are believed straight away and justice is served immediately! That's not true.

"(notice how you were all for believing white victims until they're abused by a non-white person?)"

How awful of you to suggest I don't believe victims - there is NOTHING in my statement that would imply I EVER would disbelieve a white victim if they were abused by a non-white person. Of course brown people molest people, of course their victims can be white. How terrible of you to make such an accusation based on nothing.


"How is it not pertinent? It stands to reason that those who have been raised in a country (or in a family, if they were born here) that encourages women to cover from head to toe and teaches that homosexuality is a sin might grow up to have some very concerning views about the world and how certain people deserve to be treated. You don't think that could have any potential link between these shocking sex abuse claims and these teachings?"

Err, yes I obviously do think that... It doesn't take a genius to figure out that people's beliefs towards women or LGBT people affects their behaviour towards women or LGBT people. I've actually spoken about that in other threads. It just isn't relevant and pertinent to what I was talking about was it? I think I've been pretty clear already about how the two topics are a totally separate topic of discussion.

RACIST. 

For the love of God quote people individually after maybe 3 quotes if you’re gonna type so much. 

[Harry 26,836]

On 14/01/2018 at 1:18 AM, judxs said:

People on here agreeing that these girls would have been raped 'eventually' are making me feel sick. That is such a disgusting way to think about it. They were raped by a grooming GANG, which is something the UK has hardly ever had to deal with before. They aren't a common thing in our society, so no, they probably wouldn't have been raped 'eventually'.

As we've seen more and more recently, a large proportion of women have dealt with sexual abuse or harassment at some point in their life. I think that's the point Lily was trying to make. It's disgusting, sure, but basically all of my female friends have recently described how common all of this is. Go to any club and open your eyes, you'll see it.

Getting raped at the hands of a grooming gang is different to this of course which is why Lily's point was timed incredibly badly, but it's still a valid point nonetheless imo. Maybe it does make you feel sick but it doesn't mean that the people raising this issue are wrong or lying. If you want to turn a blind eye to it in order to avoid being disgusted then I guess that's on you, but this is a real problem.

And grooming gangs are not new.

23 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Come on, we haven't talked/argued in ages. I thought we'd moved on from all that bitterness. I was actually hoping to get in touch to make it up with you but I don't know if you want to now. Why have you suddenly come back and are acting like you're against me all over again? We've never even had arguments around race before, so my only guess is that you've picked up on what other people have said around here and run with it, which is unfair.

Of course I don't think she was genuinely meaning to hurt these girls with that statement but it was offensive all the same and aren't we always being told that intent doesn't matter if it hurts people? Her comment didn't need to contain a reference to race to be coded. I know it's coded because I have seen this argument come up repeatedly in SJW circles when it involves non white perpetrator/white victim. When it's white on white or white on non-white, no such justifications of inevitable sexual abuse are considered, you'd get slammed to hell and back if you did. But suddenly, when it's a non-white person who's committed the crime, it's justifications aplenty, the victims aren't treated with the same respect. But until now, it was just regular citizens who I heard make these double standards. Now celebrities are at it and we know how celebrity opinion can influence the public and sway things, so it's highly dangerous that myths of inevitable rape are doing the rounds. Saying that a girl was bound to get sexually abused because of where she lived and her background is just as bad as saying a girl was bound to get sexually assaulted for going out wearing a short skirt at night. Putting the focus on the victim for what happened to them is never the way to go, according to SJWs. But apparently, they can pick and choose when to believe in this philosophy when they've got a liberal agenda to push and protect and vilifying non-white criminals is not part of that agenda.

Please.

So why is it that whenever anyone calls you out on your problematic statement you say "I didn't mean it" or whatever instead of owning the fact that you said something offensive, apologise and learn from it? As always you're just kinda twisting everything to suit your rhetoric.

No one is justifying sexual abuse. No one. You're completely missing the point. Lily's statement was badly worded and timed, hence her apology and retraction. She isn't saying "oh well, they would've been raped anyway!". She isn't saying she was going to get sexually abused because of where they lives, she's saying that is the PROBLEM. It's not victim blaming. How dense can you be?

And no. Her statement had nothing to do with race. You're only looking into it because that's how you perceive it. You go on about "SJWs" and a "liberal agenda" but all you're doing is reading into things that aren't actually there so you can talk about how victimised white people supposedly are. No one wants to protect non-white rapists.

You honestly wouldn't be out of place at a Trump rally, it's laughable.

[StrawberryBlond 15,668]

18 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

RACIST. 

For the love of God quote people individually after maybe 3 quotes if you’re gonna type so much. 

Huh, why did you aim that at Bebe? Wasn't it not my post you were supposed to be referring to?

3 hours ago, Harry said:

Please.

So why is it that whenever anyone calls you out on your problematic statement you say "I didn't mean it" or whatever instead of owning the fact that you said something offensive, apologise and learn from it? As always you're just kinda twisting everything to suit your rhetoric.

No one is justifying sexual abuse. No one. You're completely missing the point. Lily's statement was badly worded and timed, hence her apology and retraction. She isn't saying "oh well, they would've been raped anyway!". She isn't saying she was going to get sexually abused because of where they lives, she's saying that is the PROBLEM. It's not victim blaming. How dense can you be?

And no. Her statement had nothing to do with race. You're only looking into it because that's how you perceive it. You go on about "SJWs" and a "liberal agenda" but all you're doing is reading into things that aren't actually there so you can talk about how victimised white people supposedly are. No one wants to protect non-white rapists.

You honestly wouldn't be out of place at a Trump rally, it's laughable.

Considering that we were able to be civil to each other in the few exchanges we've made since, I was hoping we could make it up? I've treated you with nothing but kindness ever since, why do still want to be mean to me?

I apologise if anyone found any comments I said to be offensive. I only have good intentions at heart. I can't say much more when I didn't mean anything bad. Besides, I don't actually see anyone here being offended by what I said, just irritated. I have nothing to learn from if I'm being polite and fair. It's other people who aren't polite and fair to me, which the exclusion of perhaps Bebe as he at least doesn't call me names and throw accusations at me. I've repeatedly told certain people here that what they've said has offended me and do they change? Do they hell. They're too vain and proud to see themselves as anything other than in the right. So, apparently, I have to change but you lot don't have to? I don't think so.

Lily's apology was very self serving and I don't know how you can't see that. She mentioned that having the guts to say you're sorry makes you a strong person. That's the words of a person who doesn't feel sorry at all, they just want to be congratulated for projecting remorse and make it all about themselves. She's all for talking about the horrors of grooming until it involves a group of people that she's always defending. Then she starts carting out excuses.

She was responding to a question regarding the race of the abusers, so while there was no mention of race in her reply, her reply dealt with the race spoken of in the question. Her answer, paraphrased for a tweet, essentially had "No, even if Pakistani Muslims hadn't been allowed here..." at the beginning. And I don't think white people are victimised in general. But stats show that white girls are in real danger in certain communities because of the extreme disregard that some foreign men have against them for not being like their women. You'll notice that a lot of these abusers had families of their own. So, they seem attracted to their own Pakistani Muslim women, but when they go out to cheat on their wives, they always chose white girls who didn't share their religion or community...that sends a powerful message. I'm not reading anything into that, that is a clear pattern of behaviour that suggests a disrespect for white females. You'll notice that white grooming gangs aren't picky, they just took whatever they could get and didn't have any problem abusing girls of their own race and community, not seeing them as protected entities. But the Pakistani Muslim gangs sought out white girls specifically, even though there were clearly a lot of Pakistani Muslim girls in the area. Because they held their own girls to a high standard, for they are, after all, future wives for those in their community. But white girls? Who cares about them? Thing is, abusers don't care who they abuse, they just take whatever's there. If an abuser is targeting a specific group to the exclusion of all else, it's clear their motivations come from an extreme dislike for that group. You say that "no one wants to protect non-white rapists," then why do liberals repeatedly make excuses for them and refuse to talk about them, instead reverting to "what about white rapists?" whenever the topic comes up?

For the last time, I don't support Trump. I've gone over and over all my "I'm not a racist" credentials every time but no one pays attention, or, just like you accused me of, see what they want to see. I've said many times that I'm a liberal, anti-Trump, anti-Brexit, pro-immigration, pro-interracial. So, what's with all the persist accusations of me being anything different? And you're calling me dense?

[Morphine Prince 109,962]

1 minute ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Huh, why did you aim that at Bebe? Wasn't it not my post you were supposed to be referring to?

Considering that we were able to be civil to each other in the few exchanges we've made since, I was hoping we could make it up? I've treated you with nothing but kindness ever since, why do still want to be mean to me?

I apologise if anyone found any comments I said to be offensive. I only have good intentions at heart. I can't say much more when I didn't mean anything bad. Besides, I don't actually see anyone here being offended by what I said, just irritated. I have nothing to learn from if I'm being polite and fair. It's other people who aren't polite and fair to me, which the exclusion of perhaps Bebe as he at least doesn't call me names and throw accusations at me. I've repeatedly told certain people here that what they've said has offended me and do they change? Do they hell. They're too vain and proud to see themselves as anything other than in the right. So, apparently, I have to change but you lot don't have to? I don't think so.

Lily's apology was very self serving and I don't know how you can't see that. She mentioned that having the guts to say you're sorry makes you a strong person. That's the words of a person who doesn't feel sorry at all, they just want to be congratulated for projecting remorse and make it all about themselves. She's all for talking about the horrors of grooming until it involves a group of people that she's always defending. Then she starts carting out excuses.

She was responding to a question regarding the race of the abusers, so while there was no mention of race in her reply, her reply dealt with the race spoken of in the question. Her answer, paraphrased for a tweet, essentially had "No, even if Pakistani Muslims hadn't been allowed here..." at the beginning. And I don't think white people are victimised in general. But stats show that white girls are in real danger in certain communities because of the extreme disregard that some foreign men have against them for not being like their women. You'll notice that a lot of these abusers had families of their own. So, they seem attracted to their own Pakistani Muslim women, but when they go out to cheat on their wives, they always chose white girls who didn't share their religion or community...that sends a powerful message. I'm not reading anything into that, that is a clear pattern of behaviour that suggests a disrespect for white females. You'll notice that white grooming gangs aren't picky, they just took whatever they could get and didn't have any problem abusing girls of their own race and community, not seeing them as protected entities. But the Pakistani Muslim gangs sought out white girls specifically, even though there were clearly a lot of Pakistani Muslim girls in the area. Because they held their own girls to a high standard, for they are, after all, future wives for those in their community. But white girls? Who cares about them? Thing is, abusers don't care who they abuse, they just take whatever's there. If an abuser is targeting a specific group to the exclusion of all else, it's clear their motivations come from an extreme dislike for that group. You say that "no one wants to protect non-white rapists," then why do liberals repeatedly make excuses for them and refuse to talk about them, instead reverting to "what about white rapists?" whenever the topic comes up?

For the last time, I don't support Trump. I've gone over and over all my "I'm not a racist" credentials every time but no one pays attention, or, just like you accused me of, see what they want to see. I've said many times that I'm a liberal, anti-Trump, anti-Brexit, pro-immigration, pro-interracial. So, what's with all the persist accusations of me being anything different? And you're calling me dense?

Yes, sorry @Bebe 

 

[Harry 26,836]

12 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Huh, why did you aim that at Bebe? Wasn't it not my post you were supposed to be referring to?

Considering that we were able to be civil to each other in the few exchanges we've made since, I was hoping we could make it up? I've treated you with nothing but kindness ever since, why do still want to be mean to me?

I apologise if anyone found any comments I said to be offensive. I only have good intentions at heart. I can't say much more when I didn't mean anything bad. Besides, I don't actually see anyone here being offended by what I said, just irritated. I have nothing to learn from if I'm being polite and fair. It's other people who aren't polite and fair to me, which the exclusion of perhaps Bebe as he at least doesn't call me names and throw accusations at me. I've repeatedly told certain people here that what they've said has offended me and do they change? Do they hell. They're too vain and proud to see themselves as anything other than in the right. So, apparently, I have to change but you lot don't have to? I don't think so.

Lily's apology was very self serving and I don't know how you can't see that. She mentioned that having the guts to say you're sorry makes you a strong person. That's the words of a person who doesn't feel sorry at all, they just want to be congratulated for projecting remorse and make it all about themselves. She's all for talking about the horrors of grooming until it involves a group of people that she's always defending. Then she starts carting out excuses.

She was responding to a question regarding the race of the abusers, so while there was no mention of race in her reply, her reply dealt with the race spoken of in the question. Her answer, paraphrased for a tweet, essentially had "No, even if Pakistani Muslims hadn't been allowed here..." at the beginning. And I don't think white people are victimised in general. But stats show that white girls are in real danger in certain communities because of the extreme disregard that some foreign men have against them for not being like their women. You'll notice that a lot of these abusers had families of their own. So, they seem attracted to their own Pakistani Muslim women, but when they go out to cheat on their wives, they always chose white girls who didn't share their religion or community...that sends a powerful message. I'm not reading anything into that, that is a clear pattern of behaviour that suggests a disrespect for white females. You'll notice that white grooming gangs aren't picky, they just took whatever they could get and didn't have any problem abusing girls of their own race and community, not seeing them as protected entities. But the Pakistani Muslim gangs sought out white girls specifically, even though there were clearly a lot of Pakistani Muslim girls in the area. Because they held their own girls to a high standard, for they are, after all, future wives for those in their community. But white girls? Who cares about them? Thing is, abusers don't care who they abuse, they just take whatever's there. If an abuser is targeting a specific group to the exclusion of all else, it's clear their motivations come from an extreme dislike for that group. You say that "no one wants to protect non-white rapists," then why do liberals repeatedly make excuses for them and refuse to talk about them, instead reverting to "what about white rapists?" whenever the topic comes up?

For the last time, I don't support Trump. I've gone over and over all my "I'm not a racist" credentials every time but no one pays attention, or, just like you accused me of, see what they want to see. I've said many times that I'm a liberal, anti-Trump, anti-Brexit, pro-immigration, pro-interracial. So, what's with all the persist accusations of me being anything different? And you're calling me dense?

How am I "being mean" to you lol

[StrawberryBlond 15,668]

23 hours ago, Harry said:

How am I "being mean" to you lol

By coming out of the woodwork after all this time by making a comment to get at me despite us being civil in the last few conversations we've had and suggesting that I'm a racist when I'm not. I've dealt with enough of these untrue accusations in the last few months tarnishing my reputation, I don't need it from people who haven't even spoken to me in ages and who I've never even had a discussion about race with.

[Harry 26,836]

20 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

By coming out of the woodwork after all this time by making a comment to get at me despite us being civil in the last few conversations we've had and suggesting that I'm a racist when I'm not. I've dealt with enough of these untrue accusations in the last few months tarnishing my reputation, I don't need it from people who haven't even spoken to me in ages and who I've never even had a discussion about race with.

... You opened a thread for discussion and that's what you got. Am I meant to just not reply to a thread that I have something to say about because I disagree with you? If you think that's mean, I honestly don't know what to tell you. Get a grip, I guess?