Gay men hate femme gay men

[Brooklyn Knight 108]

3 hours ago, Givenchy said:

I'm not taking it personally, and nowhere did I suggest that femme gays are repulsive. They're just not my type, and I don't find myself and them sexually compatible, and it has nothing to do with how nice they are. I know a hell lot of nice women, women I treasure, but there's no way anything sexual or emotional can happen between me and them. 

First off, obviously if you are gay nothing would happen between you and a woman in the first place. Assuming that someone who has feminine qualities is not a man is very problematic. 

 

3 hours ago, Givenchy said:

I'm simply against the idea that a person's interest in another person is a societal influence. I live in the middle east and a lot of these manly men you mention are either into women or femme gays. I can understand that, to them the "femme" features are a turn on and these men identify as top. So it feels like a compatibility thing more than anything. I'm not sure about the west, but a lot of people claim that "99% of gays are versatile" and I don't know where they even got that percentage from, but if everyone wants to be both top and bottom, it makes sense that they might look down on something that may likely only want to be bottom. Even though I'm not suggesting that every bottom is femme nor that every top has to be Schwarzneggar LOL.

It's entirely a societal influence. Most if not everybody has been strictly shown that certain things are for boys and certain things are for girls, and that acting one way makes you a man and another way makes you a woman. So the idea that you are turned off by all feminine men is entirely prejudiced. And this is just based on the simple fact that you are basing all femmes on one pre conceived notion. So you're deducing them all to one stereotype which is literally impossible because no two people are the same.

 

3 hours ago, Givenchy said:

Here's the thing, and let's put it bluntly like this. Someone likes to get ****ed hard, what can a femme guy who also likes to get ****ed do about it? Let's be logical here. I'm not saying femme guys cannot **** someone but they're most likely into the other sexual role. And biologically speaking, isn't sex more pleasurable when you're for example a bottom gay having sex with someone who's strong enough to contain you. If this is your desire, then you're definitely gonna need somebody who's best for that preference and that of course changes from one person to another, but I guess it has much deeper roots in sexual roles, in desires and overall preference. Not simply nor purely societal problem. I didn't choose my partner based on a societal norm, I chose him because he cares about me and turns me on.

In this instance, you prove a valid point, in a sense. Yes, there are femme gays who prefer to the bottom, just like there are masculine men who like to bottom... but because masculine guys fit a very certain gender role, there wouldn't be an issue with that. It really all boils down to these antiquated gender roles. Being femme doesn't mean you are immediately a bottom and being masc doesn't immediately make you a top. It really just is prejudice towards femme gays. 

3 hours ago, Givenchy said:

This whole notion where some people claim that it's entirely something taught to us is nonsense. There's definitely a social influence, but ultimately the way our body reacts, the way our deep instincts function, it's who we are rather than what we're taught and a lot of people (not saying it's necessarily you) imply that you somehow owe the less desired people something or when some feminists complain that men are into big boobs and specific beauty standards and often claim that all that is because of the "evil fashion magazine beauty standards". I personally believe that these standards didn't just condition people, they were put in order to present the unachievable, to amplify what men desire in a woman or what people generally desire in one another and amplify that to become something magical rather than realistic, but it's still created based on what we desire, what we're wired to like.

You're right, part of attraction is the way your body reacts, but its largely a psychological reaction. It's a simple fact that masculinity is seen to be the ideal for men. They are supposed to be these hyper masculine creations, on the other hand, men who are feminine are seen as less than and weaker than other men, simply because of mannerisms. Femininity in general is seen as a sign of weakness, because it is simply the inbred misogyny in the world. So in a way, these mindsets have transcended all types of communities, from Gay to straight. 

[God Control 2,181]

20 minutes ago, Brooklyn Knight said:

1. First off, obviously if you are gay nothing would happen between you and a woman in the first place. Assuming that someone who has feminine qualities is not a man is very problematic. 

 

2. It's entirely a societal influence. Most if not everybody has been strictly shown that certain things are for boys and certain things are for girls, and that acting one way makes you a man and another way makes you a woman. So the idea that you are turned off by all feminine men is entirely prejudiced. And this is just based on the simple fact that you are basing all femmes on one pre conceived notion. So you're deducing them all to one stereotype which is literally impossible because no two people are the same.

 

3. In this instance, you prove a valid point, in a sense. Yes, there are femme gays who prefer to the bottom, just like there are masculine men who like to bottom... but because masculine guys fit a very certain gender role, there wouldn't be an issue with that. It really all boils down to these antiquated gender roles. Being femme doesn't mean you are immediately a bottom and being masc doesn't immediately make you a top. It really just is prejudice towards femme gays. 

4. You're right, part of attraction is the way your body reacts, but its largely a psychological reaction. It's a simple fact that masculinity is seen to be the ideal for men. They are supposed to be these hyper masculine creations, on the other hand, men who are feminine are seen as less than and weaker than other men, simply because of mannerisms. Femininity in general is seen as a sign of weakness, because it is simply the inbred misogyny in the world. So in a way, these mindsets have transcended all types of communities, from Gay to straight. 

1. I didn't.

2. I wouldn't say entirely. There's no proof of that and since you just said that no two people are the same then no study can sum up all people based on one confidence interval or something. If I'm turned off by feminine men, it's because I like someone who's big enough to contain me, to satisfy me, to be aggressive and passionate with me at the same time, to be the hero type. That's not something a femme gay can give me. If that's something negative, I can live with it because it makes me happy and I don't owe other people any reciprocated attraction. It's very similar to straight men who prefer a specific type of women, some prefer the slimmer type, some prefer the curvy type some even prefer asian women or black women over white or other types of women. I've seen many white Swedish women for example who said "I feel arab men are much more manly than any other men" or many chinese women who say "Iraqi men are the hottest", that's not because they're discriminative or prejudiced but because they simply lean more towards one type. Sometimes it's about desiring the other extreme. Why do a lot of masculine bisexual men desire femme gays? who do some men even prefer femme gays who dress in feminine underwear? fetish and desire. Not prejudice.

3. I never said that being masculine comes with the default top role and being feminine is by default, bottom. I specifically emphasized upon that. But a lot of times what people call "stereotypes" often stem from reality. That doesn't mean EVERY person of said category MUST BE something, but sometimes it's more likely to be true. For me, being with another man transcends that idea of just a person with a penis. Of course for me, personally, I wouldn't date a trans female to male. Nothing against them, but that's just not my interest, same goes for the other way. My desires are a person who is both a male and a top only and I don't see that as a problem. On the contrary, I feel that the people who want to make someone else's lack of interest in them to be a problem are just people who don't want to get over the fact a specific person doesn't like them, so they wanna make it like there's something wrong with the world. It doesn't have to be something wrong with anybody, but no one forces themselves to find interest in someone.

4. Masculinity is seen as ideal for men just as femininity is seen as ideal for women. I think a huge part of those is related to biology as well. That too cannot be generalized, indeed, but when a huge majority of the human race identifies as such or feels more comfortable as such, it's safe to assume it as the norm. Not that there's something wrong with people who don't conform, but there's nothing wrong with conforming either. I wouldn't call it antiquated nor something negative nor will I try to dig deep and find excuses to shame men who want to be masculine or females that want to remain feminine in the literally or "stereotypical" sense. 

What I find deeply problematic is how people are disgusted by others, is how they shame others and look down upon them. That's a problem indeed. No one is shameful, not a tough butch female, not a feminine male, not a promiscuous person (provided they don't lie to people to date them and then cheat on them) not a person who prefers one monogamous relationships, not a virgin, not anyone, gay straight or bi. No one deserves to be ashamed of and if people are being ashamed of others, I wholeheartedly agree that it's a problem that people need to be educated about so they can at least accept and leave others in peace. But as for interests and desires, I don't think anyone is entitled to be preferred nor does anyone owe anybody any attraction.

[lost in limbo 6,035]

The thing is not the fact they don't find femme men attractive for being femme (which is kinda stupid bc they are still men, but everyone has different tastes in people and etc.)

The thing is they find femme men degrading to their masculine image. And that's dumb.

You, my friend, are a gay. Someone that's normally outcasted from society and will suffer homophobia atleast once in your lifetime.

So, from that, you should've already learned not to exclude people for who they are.

And this guys are doing the opposite. Masculinity really is fragile.

Spoiler

I find it funny I've never seen these issues with butch and lipstick lesbians in the lesbian side of the community tho.

 

[God Control 2,181]

7 minutes ago, HausOfAmericano said:

The thing is not the fact they don't find femme men attractive for being femme (which is kinda stupid bc they are still men, but everyone has different tastes in people and etc.)

The thing is they find femme men degrading to their masculine image. And that's dumb.

You, my friend, are a gay. Someone that's normally outcasted from society and will suffer homophobia atleast once in your lifetime.

So, from that, you should've already learned not to exclude people for who they are.

And this guys are doing the opposite. Masculinity really is fragile.

  Hide contents

I find it funny I've never seen these issues with butch and lipstick lesbian in the lesbian side of the community tho.

 

I wouldn't want to defend the shame factor, because it's wrong to be ashamed of other people no matter what and people are their own thing, each person is different, there's no such thing as a community, only a categorization based on a trait or a belief, but I think the idea that some gay men believe that other types of gays be it the promiscuous or the femme are degrading to their image stems from the fact that saying you're gay immediately labels you as an effeminate person or a less of a man because the typical image of a gay man in the eyes of society is a someone who's feminine, bottom and promiscuous.

Of course anyone is free to be whatever they feel comfortable being and nobody's actions should affect anyone's image because we're all different, but the whole shame factor probably stems from the generalizations that are imposed on people because of other people in said "community".

This is mainly why I don't associate myself with any community, not religious, not sexual, not orientation-driven, not gender-driven. I believe we're all people and different and we just need to respect those differences but we're not communities nor do we owe each other anything. 

[lost in limbo 6,035]

4 minutes ago, Givenchy said:

I wouldn't want to defend the shame factor, because it's wrong to be ashamed of other people no matter what and people are their own thing, each person is different, there's no such thing as a community, only a categorization based on a trait or a belief, but I think the idea that some gay men believe that other types of gays be it the promiscuous or the femme are degrading to their image stems from the fact that saying you're gay immediately labels you as an effeminate person or a less of a man because the typical image of a gay man in the eyes of society is a someone who's feminine, bottom and promiscuous. Of course anyone is free to be whatever they feel comfortable being and nobody's actions should affect anyone's image because we're all different, but the whole shame factor probably stems from the generalizations that are imposed on people because of other people in said "community". This is mainly why I don't associate myself with any community, not religious, not sexual, not orientation-driven, not gender-driven. I believe we're all people and different and we just need to respect those differences but we're not communities nor do we owe each other anything. 

The community stands for equality above everything, and that's the only thing that should matter first and foremost.

The fact you don't consider yourself as part of the community has literally NOTHING to do with the topic. Congratulations for it, I guess.

And your arguments still prove how masculinity is fragile. They shouldn't care about society's opinion, yet they still decide to do it and shame femme gays for simply being who they are, bc they want gay people to have a certain image to society.

[God Control 2,181]

8 minutes ago, HausOfAmericano said:

The community stands for equality above everything, and that's the only thing that should matter first and foremost.

The fact you don't consider yourself as part of the community has literally NOTHING to do with the topic. Congratulations for it, I guess.

And your arguments still prove how masculinity is fragile. They shouldn't care about society's opinion, yet they still decide to do it and shame femme gays for simply being who they are, bc they want gay people to have a certain image to society.

 

I personally don't believe that it has to do with fragile masculinity, but more with the improper definition of people. If people get annoyed by other stereotypes, then why shouldn't gay men be annoyed by the stereotype that femininity and promiscuity are their major features or all their lives revolve around? Would a black man appreciates it if someone says "you probably like watermelon?", would a woman appreciates it if someone assumes she's a boy just because of the way she dresses? would an asian man appreciates it if you assume they like rice or that they must speak Chinese even if they're Asian Americans? I don't think so and they would immediately consider it a micro aggression if not worse, not to mention how a lot of transgender people immediately call you out if you assume their gender.

People shouldn't care for society's opinion, yet this whole topic is based on femme gays caring for society's opinion.

As for what I said regarding not being part of the community, it's an additional note as to why I'd rather identify as me rather than any label because I didn't see any good thing in being part of any community. It's part of why I totally don't care what anyone else thinks of me or assumes that I should be. This topic is all about people within said community being ashamed of each other, so it does have a lot to do with the topic because the community is becoming toxic with people either shaming you for conforming to male gender role and trying to invalidate your behavior as something taught to you by society rather than you being who you are yet at the same time defend their own behaviors as them being "who they are", or wanting a heteronormative monogamous relationship and calling it (trying to be straight) as if monogamy is a straight-exclusive thing, or those shaming you for being effeminate, promiscuous, into fashion..etc. and call you "typical gay guy" whether within the community or outside of it.

[lost in limbo 6,035]

7 minutes ago, Givenchy said:

I personally don't believe that it has to do with fragile masculinity, but more with the improper definition of people. If people get annoyed by other stereotypes, then why shouldn't gay men be annoyed by the stereotype that femininity and promiscuity is their major feature or all their life revolves around? Would a black man appreciates it if someone says "you probably like watermelon?", would a woman appreciates it if someone assumes she's a boy just because of the way she dresses? would an asian man appreciates it if you assume they like rice or that they must speak Chinese even if they're Asian Americans? I don't think so and they would immediately consider it a micro aggression if not worse, not to mention how a lot of transgender people immediately call you out if you assume their gender.

The thing is, femme gays exist. For an example, there are Chinese people who like rice, coicidentally,. The thing is, in the gay community, femme gays are also femme because they are like that.

And it's not those people's fault that society thinks a certain group of people is the same, with the same tastes, same opinions, same actions, etc. It's society. And that shows once again, how much those gay men care too much about society's opinion of them.

7 minutes ago, Givenchy said:

People shouldn't care for society's opinion, yet this whole topic is based femme gays caring for society's opinion.

 

Except the fact that they act like that bc they don't care about society's opinion of them and feel free to act like they are.

7 minutes ago, Givenchy said:

As for what I said regarding not being part of the community, it's an additional note as to why I'd rather identify as me rather than any label because I didn't see any good thing in being part of any community. It's part of why I totally don't care what anyone else thinks of me or assumes that I should be.

Fine, but communities don't work like that and you know it.

[God Control 2,181]

Just now, HausOfAmericano said:

1. The thing is, femme gays exist. For an example, there are Chinese people who like rice, coicidentally,. The thing is, in the gay community, femme gays are also femme because they are like that.

And it's not those people's fault that society thinks a certain group of people is the same, with the same tastes, same opinions, same actions, etc. It's society. And that shows once again, how much those gay men care too much about society's opinion of them.

2. Except the fact that they act like that bc they don't care about society's opinion of them and feel free to act like they are.

 

3. Fine, but communities don't work like that and you know it.

1. I don't get the difference. If you're asian and happened to like rice, It is like being gay who happened to be feminine. But assuming that you MUST be feminine because you're gay is just like assuming you MUST like rice because you're asian. It's basically using the trait that is publicized to describe an entire community that is full of diversity. And it does genuinely bother people when you make such assumptions. So what I said isn't in defense of people who say "I'm ashamed of femme gays because they tarnish my reputation", but merely explaining the mentality behind it. It's not personal hatred, but when pride marches are full of naked people who simulate sex, that sends a message to the world that the entire gay community is like that, which is not only something that people will negatively talk about, but might likely affect your chances in getting a job or any representation to a corporation because simply by knowing you're gay, they might actually start thinking "this person is gonna give the wrong impression" because they assume that the fact that you're gay = feminine and/or promiscuous.

2. So then what's the point of this entire thread if they don't care what society thinks? Clearly some people care enough to call it a problem and to complain about it and seek change from such debates.

3. Which is why I distance myself from any community.

[lost in limbo 6,035]

2 minutes ago, Givenchy said:

1. I don't get the difference. If you're asian and happened to like rice, It is like being gay who happened to be feminine. But assuming that you MUST be feminine because you're gay is just like assuming you MUST like rice because you're asian. It's basically using the trait that is publicized to describe an entire community that is full of diversity. And it does genuinely bother people when you make such assumptions. So what I said isn't in defense of people who say "I'm ashamed of femme gays because they tarnish my reputation", but merely explaining the mentality behind it. It's not personal hatred, but when pride marches are full of naked people who simulate sex, that sends a message to the world that the entire gay community is like that, which is not only something that people will negatively talk about, but might likely affect your chances in getting a job or any representation to a corporation because simply by knowing you're gay, they might actually start thinking "this person is gonna give the wrong impression" because they assume that the fact that you're gay = feminine and/or promiscuous.

 

Again, people care too much about society. And besides, nobody wants to work in a place of work ho doesn't contract you bc of the attitudes of other people that share your sexuality. Also, shame on you for using ****ing  Pride as an example. 

5 minutes ago, Givenchy said:

2. So then what's the point of this entire thread if they don't care what society thinks? Clearly some people care enough to call it a problem and to complain about it and seek change from such debates.

 

Except those gay men aren't society lol. They're part of this certain group, like it or not. And it's uncorfortable for these people to have those people inside their group, standing for literally the opposite of the mensage that you are supposed to learn as a gay person.

7 minutes ago, Givenchy said:

3. Which is why I distance myself from any community.

I've met incredible people inside the community. I will continue to relate myself with the bi and LGBT+ community and meet more incredible people inside them, but well, that's your loss.

[God Control 2,181]

Just now, HausOfAmericano said:

1. Again, people care too much about society. And besides, nobody wants to work in a place of work ho doesn't contract you bc of the attitudes of other people that share your sexuality. Also, shame on you for using ****ing  Pride as an example. 

2. Except those gay men aren't society lol. They're part of this certain group, like it or not. And it's uncorfortable for these people to have those people inside their group, standing for literally the opposite of the mensage that you are supposed to learn as a gay person.

3. I've met incredible people inside the community. I will continue to relate myself with the bi and LGBT+ community and meet more incredible people inside them, but well, that's your loss.

1. A lot of people of all kinds care what society thinks. This is a fact of life and the people about whom the thread is made care as well. I'm free to use a valid example even if it bothers people to do so. If you have a good argument, come up with it.

2. They're still part of society. There's no membership card or agency nor special tattoos that make you gay. Any person in your surroundings is part of society. It doesn't matter what gender or sexuality they belong to and there's no specific school to graduate from to become a proper gay man. Being gay is simply having the attraction towards the same sex, it has no set of rules nor is there any authority that decide what it should be to become a gay man. At the end of the day, we're all people and we're all different. Like it or not.

3. I've met incredible people of all kinds and I prefer to treat people as people and all I care about is someone who respects me and I respect them, as friends. I couldn't care less if they're gay or not. That doesn't concern me, but the fact that I don't associate myself with a specific group is hardly a loss for me. Ultimately, I'll choose what makes me happy not what others think should make me happy.

[lost in limbo 6,035]

1 hour ago, Givenchy said:

1. A lot of people of all kinds care what society thinks. This is a fact of life and the people about whom the thread is made care as well. I'm free to use a valid example even if it bothers people to do so. If you have a good argument, come up with it.

 

You basically got my argument all wrong. 

 

1 hour ago, Givenchy said:

2. They're still part of society. There's no membership card or agency nor special tattoos that make you gay. Any person in your surroundings is part of society. It doesn't matter what gender or sexuality they belong to and there's no specific school to graduate from to become a proper gay man. Being gay is simply having the attraction towards the same sex, it has no set of rules nor is there any authority that decide what it should be to become a gay man. At the end of the day, we're all people and we're all different. Like it or not.

 

Holy ****. That's literally the opposite of the mensage those people YOU'RE defending are sending. And I never said any of these things, you got them wrong yourself. 

 

1 hour ago, Givenchy said:

3. I've met incredible people of all kinds and I prefer to treat people as people and all I care about is someone who respects me and I respect them, as friends. I couldn't care less if they're gay or not. That doesn't concern me, but the fact that I don't associate myself with a specific group is hardly a loss for me. Ultimately, I'll choose what makes me happy not what others think should make me happy.

I do the same lol. I said I met incredible individuals by being part of those communities and you could know too if you didn't go by that logic of yours.  But whatever, I respect that. I just don't respect you trying to defend those people. We're all different like you literally said above and those people are saying they're ashamed of being related to femme men because they're different. That's hypocritical of you.

But I'm not gonna bother, you'll keep the same opinion, I'll keep the same opinion and there's nothing you and I can do. Have a nice day/evening.

[PopBitch 1,218]

Flipping Out's Jeff Lewis, "Gage, you'd better get to the gym and keep that fine, hunky body in shape, or I'm replacing you with someone even younger!"    Just a little humor to lighten up the thread.

 

[God Control 2,181]

1 hour ago, HausOfAmericano said:

You basically got my argument all wrong. 

 

Holy ****. That's literally the opposite of the mensage those people YOU'RE defending are sending. And I never said any of these things, you got them wrong yourself. 

 

I do the same lol. I said I met incredible individuals by being part of those communities and you could know too if you didn't go by that logic of yours.  But whatever, I respect that. I just don't respect you trying to defend those people. We're all different like you literally said above and those people are saying they're ashamed of being related to femme men because they're different. That's hypocritical of you.

But I'm not gonna bother, you'll keep the same opinion, I'll keep the same opinion and there's nothing you and I can do. Have a nice day/evening.

I told you before in my first reply that I'm not defending but mainly explaining their rationale behind such behaviors. I think different depends on perspective, in the eyes of a straight man, you're different, and in your eyes a straight man is different, so I think the sword swings both ways and when people want to tell those who value their masculine features that they're simply conforming while those who are feminine are "being themselves" it's hypocritical.

As for the communities, I don't need to label myself or go to specific gay places like gay bars or dating apps to meet good people. It's enough for me that I run into different types of people at concerts, conventions, work..etc. and I don't exile someone from my life just by knowing someone is gay or muslim or christian or anything for that matter. As long as someone respects me, I respect them. I rarely discuss these matter with people nor use them as a factor to decide whether to talk to someone or not. But generally speaking, I don't live like I'm part of a group nor do I let one or two traits about me define where I belong, I belong with everyone who makes me feel at home.

It's ok to disagree or keep our respective opinions. Have a nice day/evening as well.  

[highongaga 913]

this thread is cancerous

[weed 78,895]

On 11/9/2017 at 11:32 PM, Bebe said:

Of course he is implying they're not true men.

"Femme turn me off.. because I’m gay for a reason. I want a MAN"

What else does that imply? He's gay, he wants a MAN - Femme men turn him off because they apparently don't fit the bill of being a real, or true, man.

It's far more deep than preference, obviously those men who are rejecting femme men to have a preference for masculine men, but that doesn't mean that preference isn't problematic...

71% of gay men said they were turned off by femme men.... That's a crazy huge amount of gay men. This isn't some "Oh, I have this weird thing for guys with green eyes! They're so cute!" type thing - this is a majority of gay men actively repulsed by men who don't adhere to specific gender expectations... 
 

Girl idk why I'm getting these feelings rn but I just have to say reading your posts makes me feel so secure!! Like you out here with these facts defending people like me and what we face because it's really never seriously addressed, and it makes me feel good ahahaha thank you