German Federal Election 2017 [RESULTS]

[Melech 9,900]

53 minutes ago, tomsches said:

I hope the success of the Afd won't influence the Austrian elections in 2 weeks.

If all the Austrian far right influenced the AfD, not the other way around 

[Melech 9,900]

On 25.9.2017 at 11:08 AM, Qualle1 said:

I couldn't believe my eyes and my ears as I was watching the press-conference live on TV...

She officially left the party and also her husband did here in NRW

 

[benKo 3,362]

55 minutes ago, not asher613 said:

@benKo why/how do you support them?

Thank you. You're the first one asking this without calling me a racist or whatever  

The first topic wich is important to me, is the refugee crisis. I think we should control our borders to know who really is in our country and who really needs help. A really big part of the "refugees" here aren't real refugees fleeing from a war or something like that. Currently there is no real difference being made between someone who's live is endangered and someone who just wants to have a better life in Germany. So we need a new real law for that. We only need migrants, who are qualified to work here and don't live off the state. And we have to get all those out of the country, who were rejected. Don't confuse migrants with refugees.

The second important topic is economics. The money we get from the banks when we save our cash there gets less and less, to almost zero. For big capitals, you even have a negative interest rate. The bank secret is abolished. We have a cash limit of 10.000€, wich is definetly going to be lowered. So what happens if you have to pay money for savings on your bank account? You want to withdraw it. What happens if the state can see your account and there are cash limits? You can't withdraw it. It's currently not like this, but I'm certain it's going to happen with the CDU and Merkel.

Third topic: The EU. To keep it simple: I'm not against a union between different european states and trade deals. But I don't want a government in Brussels wich can set rules for all states in the union. And I don't want my country trying to save a failed project: The Euro. The worst thing is, that nobody asked the citizens, if they want the Euro. It just came without anyone wanting it. A strong currency for strong and weak countrys can't work. It didn't hit Germany as hard as it hit other countrys, but we also loose a lot of money to the EU and Greece as example...

And only the AfD speaks about all of this. That doesn't mean I agree with all of their positions. I'm not against gay marriage for example. But that isn't a big factor in my decision, the three above are. I know gays who are more afraid of radical muslims who don't accept gays at all, rather than care about if their partnership is called "Ehe" or "Eingetragene Lebenspartnerschaft" So I am pro gay marriage, but it's not like I can't agree with all their other positions.

Spoiler

I also want to add: I know, that there are some people in the AfD with positions and statements, wich are not okay. But you have them in all partys. I agree with big parts of their program, I like Alice Weidel very much as a politician and there are also many people in this party, who know what they are talking about. I know this from first hand.

But mess at Frauke Petry destroying the reputation™ even more... I hope they are going to internally settle after this.

Short variant: I have no problem with foreigners and homosexuals and the AfD itself hasn't.

 

[Mythos 3,199]

I work in a Bar in Semesterferien, and for few days i had some AfD-Wähler trying to win me over, telling me about all the great things they want to do, denying everything i said they where against. At one point i kinda got mad, about all the bullshit that is coming out of their mouths, about ideas which are long gone and will only harm Germany if we get them back, but i kept my pokerface and just kept listening

- Single man should be able to earn enough money for his family, ergo woman should stay at home and take care of the children. Woman have build Germany, after WWI and WWII, without them we would be nothing, we owe them so much, and people seriously want these strong and independent woman to put into the kitchen? Seriously?

- They want the old values back, whatever those are

- EU has failed, we should leave the EU. We have one, if not the strongest markets in the world, and that's because we don't have boarders. People from the EU can move freely where they are needed. How the hell is this not a good thing, except you are a Highschool graduate, who can't find a job, because you can't do anything and the machines have took over your job. But the world needs to move forward, i am sorry buddy, but maybe you should try harder.

With boarders there will also be more conflicts, and there is a reason why we need a strong EU, so we can move forward as one Europe, as brothers and sisters, not as enemies like for the last 2000 years. There is still so much hatred between nations, and you think boarders would help against it?

There is so much more the EU does for its people, but i am not gonna point these out, cause they don't really care.

There are some things EU needs to improve. We need EU Boarders, because we can't let anyone in, but isn't there a better way then just for whole Europe going to the right side, everyone starting to hate everyone again. This will lead to conflicts again, and what would we have won with this? If the EU fails, Europe is done for.

 

@benKo

How old are you? 12? Banks have been controlling money for decades, and they know everything about your money for decades. And what about 10.000? What's wrong with that? You do realize if you call you bank and you say that you need like 50.000 from you account you can pick your money in a day or two. They are not allowed to have too much money at banks because of insurance reasons, that has nothing to do with not wanting to. They also don't get money everyday, also insurance reasons (werden halt täglich nicht beliefert).

Brusse: why don't you want the EU parliament to set some rules for all the states? Like basic human rights? What has the Brussel done that is so bad? I want to Kroatia in August and i noticed that there is no roaming anymore, i just could continue to use my contract from Germany in the whole EU without restrictions... bad bad EU, why are they doing this to me? They really want me to suffer don't they?

 

I have a feeling like i am seeing more and more of this people around me...

 

[not asher613 661]

3 hours ago, benKo said:

Thank you. You're the first one asking this without calling me a racist or whatever  

The first topic wich is important to me, is the refugee crisis. I think we should control our borders to know who really is in our country and who really needs help. A really big part of the "refugees" here aren't real refugees fleeing from a war or something like that. Currently there is no real difference being made between someone who's live is endangered and someone who just wants to have a better life in Germany. So we need a new real law for that. We only need migrants, who are qualified to work here and don't live off the state. And we have to get all those out of the country, who were rejected. Don't confuse migrants with refugees.

The second important topic is economics. The money we get from the banks when we save our cash there gets less and less, to almost zero. For big capitals, you even have a negative interest rate. The bank secret is abolished. We have a cash limit of 10.000€, wich is definetly going to be lowered. So what happens if you have to pay money for savings on your bank account? You want to withdraw it. What happens if the state can see your account and there are cash limits? You can't withdraw it. It's currently not like this, but I'm certain it's going to happen with the CDU and Merkel.

Third topic: The EU. To keep it simple: I'm not against a union between different european states and trade deals. But I don't want a government in Brussels wich can set rules for all states in the union. And I don't want my country trying to save a failed project: The Euro. The worst thing is, that nobody asked the citizens, if they want the Euro. It just came without anyone wanting it. A strong currency for strong and weak countrys can't work. It didn't hit Germany as hard as it hit other countrys, but we also loose a lot of money to the EU and Greece as example...

And only the AfD speaks about all of this. That doesn't mean I agree with all of their positions. I'm not against gay marriage for example. But that isn't a big factor in my decision, the three above are. I know gays who are more afraid of radical muslims who don't accept gays at all, rather than care about if their partnership is called "Ehe" or "Eingetragene Lebenspartnerschaft" So I am pro gay marriage, but it's not like I can't agree with all their other positions.

  Reveal hidden contents

I also want to add: I know, that there are some people in the AfD with positions and statements, wich are not okay. But you have them in all partys. I agree with big parts of their program, I like Alice Weidel very much as a politician and there are also many people in this party, who know what they are talking about. I know this from first hand.

But mess at Frauke Petry destroying the reputation™ even more... I hope they are going to internally settle after this.

Short variant: I have no problem with foreigners and homosexuals and the AfD itself hasn't.

 

thank you for your thorough response. I am entirely of ignorant of German politics. 

so, if the afd had won and took control of the parliament, you would be glad? we do not have a parliament in the US and i think voting must be very different. but a party that is built around dangerous fears would be comfortable for you? as in, maybe you are ok with good Muslims but you must know that many of them hate. So are you glad for these politics to enter the discussion because no one else was talking about them but you wouldn't want them as majority, or you think these haters running on xenophobia, and homophobia would be good for Germany as leaders?

short form:

Are you voting for a change inside of German politics or are you voting for a revolution built on these fears you mentioned? did you want them to win?

[benKo 3,362]

3 minutes ago, not asher613 said:

so, if the afd had won and took control of the parliament, you would be glad?

I don't think they are ready for this. But they are very ready for a good opposition. It's a young party and they have to sort out a few people and have to solidify themselves. It's a bit chaotic right now, especially when the lead (Frauke Petry) leaves the AfD right after the election... You can't have all the right people in such a short time, but I think with Alice Weidel, Jörg Meuthen and Alexander Gauland (I'm not entirely sure what I think of him), they have a good lead to begin with. You don't wanna know how messy other parties were in their beginning.

9 minutes ago, not asher613 said:

but a party that is built around dangerous fears would be comfortable for you?

I don't think they are built around dangerous fears. I'm in most parts comfortable with their program and their lead. There are people wich indeed made racist statements (like Björn Höcke, he's not in the parliament luckily), but I think and hope they will be sorted out in the next 4 years. You have bad members in every party, wich makes it not better, but you don't have to focus only on the AfD all the time. 

 

14 minutes ago, not asher613 said:

these haters running on xenophobia, and homophobia

Their program includes nothing of these. Their program says nothing against foreigners and nothing against homosexuals. They are against the gay marriage, but not against gays itself. Sounds a bit weird, I don't agree with this position, but no one has to be afraid of them. They even have a lesbian as their top candidate who raises two boys with a woman from Sri Lanka... And I know other gays who support the AfD and only disagree with their gay-marriage position or don't even care about that at all. "We can live together and have our tax advantages like the others, I don't care how it's called" (You have to know that in Germany, the only advantage of the gay marriage would be the name and an easier adoption process, they already have something like the marriage, only with a unpleasant name "registered civil partnership")

[not asher613 661]

17 minutes ago, benKo said:

I don't think they are ready for this. But they are very ready for a good opposition. It's a young party and they have to sort out a few people and have to solidify themselves. It's a bit chaotic right now, especially when the lead (Frauke Petry) leaves the AfD right after the election... You can't have all the right people in such a short time, but I think with Alice Weidel, Jörg Meuthen and Alexander Gauland (I'm not entirely sure what I think of him), they have a good lead to begin with. You don't wanna know how messy other parties were in their beginning.

I don't think they are built around dangerous fears. I'm in most parts comfortable with their program and their lead. There are people wich indeed made racist statements (like Björn Höcke, he's not in the parliament luckily), but I think and hope they will be sorted out in the next 4 years. You have bad members in every party, wich makes it not better, but you don't have to focus only on the AfD all the time. 

 

Their program includes nothing of these. Their program says nothing against foreigners and nothing against homosexuals. They are against the gay marriage, but not against gays itself. Sounds a bit weird, I don't agree with this position, but no one has to be afraid of them. They even have a lesbian as their top candidate who raises two boys with a woman from Sri Lanka... And I know other gays who support the AfD and only disagree with their gay-marriage position or don't even care about that at all. "We can live together and have our tax advantages like the others, I don't care how it's called" (You have to know that in Germany, the only advantage of the gay marriage would be the name and an easier adoption process, they already have something like the marriage, only with a unpleasant name "registered civil partnership")

maybe I'm stating it wrong. all the people who either hate or are afraid of migrants, the banks, gays, and the eu/foreigners are definitely into afd, correct?

i guess the question is about Germany's history and about how movements like this can bring people, not you, but people who have hate or fear in their hearts, to considering solutions which would sound wrong on paper but sound reasonable in the heat of the moment. 

I can't tell you what the afd is, like I said I am totally ignorant of German politics. but it sounds like the fears and hatred of Germany all seem to go with them. is that something I shouldn't be worried about?

[benKo 3,362]

31 minutes ago, not asher613 said:

maybe I'm stating it wrong. all the people who either hate or are afraid of migrants, the banks, gays, and the eu/foreigners are definitely into afd, correct?

i guess the question is about Germany's history and about how movements like this can bring people, not you, but people who have hate or fear in their hearts, to considering solutions which would sound wrong on paper but sound reasonable in the heat of the moment. 

I can't tell you what the afd is, like I said I am totally ignorant of German politics. but it sounds like the fears and hatred of Germany all seem to go with them. is that something I shouldn't be worried about?

Okay, that's true. The people who are racist anyways are obviously following the AfD rather than the Greens or The Left. But those people were always there. They now have a party wich made it to the Parliament and is closer to their opinions than all other partys in the parliament. Some of them also made it into the AfD, because you obviously can't tell by their look if they are racist or not. So the people who really hate migrants and all of the other things you said, are probably into AfD.

But I don't think you should be worried about it. There are two things that can happen:

1. The racist people who follow and join the AfD will be sorted out on the long run or they will be convinced of the not-racist positions.

2. The racist people become the majority of the AfD and they will turn into a dangerous party. We already have a party like that, it's the NPD. They are observed by the Verfassungsschutz ("Consitution protection") and are declared "consitution-hostile". They receive no money from the government and are somewhere around 0,5%. So if a party in Germany gets really dangerous, the courts will decide about it and it gets observed.

The people and their opinions will never disappear. You can educate them or if this doesn't work, prevent them from getting a right to decide something. At the moment the AfD is allowed and not watched by the authorities. This will change if it gets dangerous or it will stay like that, if the "bad people" can't have a majority and can be sorted out of the party. The program itself is not dangerous for anyone. But of course you can disagree with their opinions and can just not elect them.

[not asher613 661]

21 minutes ago, benKo said:

Okay, that's true. The people who are racist anyways are obviously following the AfD rather than the Greens or The Left. But those people were always there. They now have a party wich made it to the Parliament and is closer to their opinions than all other partys in the parliament. Some of them also made it into the AfD, because you obviously can't tell by their look if they are racist or not. So the people who really hate migrants and all of the other things you said, are probably into AfD.

But I don't think you should be worried about it. There are two things that can happen:

1. The racist people who follow and join the AfD will be sorted out on the long run or they will be convinced of the not-racist positions.

2. The racist people become the majority of the AfD and they will turn into a dangerous party. We already have a party like that, it's the NPD. They are observed by the Verfassungsschutz ("Consitution protection") and are declared "consitution-hostile". They receive no money from the government and are somewhere around 0,5%. So if a party in Germany gets really dangerous, the courts will decide about it and it gets observed.

The people and their opinions will never disappear. You can educate them or if this doesn't work, prevent them from getting a right to decide something. At the moment the AfD is allowed and not watched by the authorities. This will change if it gets dangerous or it will stay like that, if the "bad people" can't have a majority and can be sorted out of the party. The program itself is not dangerous for anyone. But of course you can disagree with their opinions and can just not elect them.

I think I'm still worried about it.

[benKo 3,362]

33 minutes ago, not asher613 said:

I think I'm still worried about it.

Okay, at least I am happy that I was able to have a normal discussion with you 

[Qualle1 1,385]

[Melech 9,900]

3 hours ago, benKo said:

I don't think they are ready for this. But they are very ready for a good opposition. It's a young party and they have to sort out a few people and have to solidify themselves. It's a bit chaotic right now, especially when the lead (Frauke Petry) leaves the AfD right after the election... You can't have all the right people in such a short time, but I think with Alice Weidel, Jörg Meuthen and Alexander Gauland (I'm not entirely sure what I think of him), they have a good lead to begin with. You don't wanna know how messy other parties were in their beginning.

 

Gauland said Germans should be proud of WW2 soldiers and he believes that Israels right to exist shouldn't be in Germanys interest

 

[HiddenWeirdo 4,278]

3 hours ago, benKo said:

Okay, that's true. The people who are racist anyways are obviously following the AfD rather than the Greens or The Left. But those people were always there. They now have a party wich made it to the Parliament and is closer to their opinions than all other partys in the parliament. Some of them also made it into the AfD, because you obviously can't tell by their look if they are racist or not. So the people who really hate migrants and all of the other things you said, are probably into AfD.

But I don't think you should be worried about it. There are two things that can happen:

1. The racist people who follow and join the AfD will be sorted out on the long run or they will be convinced of the not-racist positions.

2. The racist people become the majority of the AfD and they will turn into a dangerous party. We already have a party like that, it's the NPD. They are observed by the Verfassungsschutz ("Consitution protection") and are declared "consitution-hostile". They receive no money from the government and are somewhere around 0,5%. So if a party in Germany gets really dangerous, the courts will decide about it and it gets observed.

The people and their opinions will never disappear. You can educate them or if this doesn't work, prevent them from getting a right to decide something. At the moment the AfD is allowed and not watched by the authorities. This will change if it gets dangerous or it will stay like that, if the "bad people" can't have a majority and can be sorted out of the party. The program itself is not dangerous for anyone. But of course you can disagree with their opinions and can just not elect them.

4 hours ago, benKo said:

I don't think they are ready for this. But they are very ready for a good opposition. It's a young party and they have to sort out a few people and have to solidify themselves. It's a bit chaotic right now, especially when the lead (Frauke Petry) leaves the AfD right after the election... You can't have all the right people in such a short time, but I think with Alice Weidel, Jörg Meuthen and Alexander Gauland (I'm not entirely sure what I think of him), they have a good lead to begin with. You don't wanna know how messy other parties were in their beginning.

I don't think they are built around dangerous fears. I'm in most parts comfortable with their program and their lead. There are people wich indeed made racist statements (like Björn Höcke, he's not in the parliament luckily), but I think and hope they will be sorted out in the next 4 years. You have bad members in every party, wich makes it not better, but you don't have to focus only on the AfD all the time. 

 

Their program includes nothing of these. Their program says nothing against foreigners and nothing against homosexuals. They are against the gay marriage, but not against gays itself. Sounds a bit weird, I don't agree with this position, but no one has to be afraid of them. They even have a lesbian as their top candidate who raises two boys with a woman from Sri Lanka... And I know other gays who support the AfD and only disagree with their gay-marriage position or don't even care about that at all. "We can live together and have our tax advantages like the others, I don't care how it's called" (You have to know that in Germany, the only advantage of the gay marriage would be the name and an easier adoption process, they already have something like the marriage, only with a unpleasant name "registered civil partnership")

Sorry, but that's complete bllshit. It's not about the unknown racist people who need to be sorted out. ALL of them are racist if they support such goals. It's about WHAT they ALL stand for.

All the hard times we Germans and the whole world has been through in history and the AfD would only make things worse. You can't compare their initial position with that of the other parties. History and the actual wars should change that aspect, don't you think? I'm not scared of them, but I'm humiliated by what they stand for and the people that voted them.

Do you even know what they stand for? I get that every party is a mess at the beginning but Germany is way too advanced in economy, finance and environmental technique to be led by those idiots. Their points are not just simply weak. They are indeed pointless and go into a direction that wouldn't permit Germany to continue to grow as a strong country.

For example, Germany became bigger economically because of their trades with the other European states. What they want is that Germany should leave the EU.

Another example, Germany has always been a country with many Immigrants.. way before all the asylum seekers came into the country. AfD says that even people born in Germany should have NO right to be German citizens. Only ''Germans'' with German origins.

So I'm proud to have a Chancellor like Angela Merkel in my country. Her parents are immigrants. And so are mine. I was born in Germany. Why should I value less if all I'm doing is serving this country with big respect and love?

[benKo 3,362]

13 minutes ago, HiddenWeirdo said:

Sorry, but that's complete bllshit. It's not about the unknown racist people who need to be sorted out. ALL of them are racist if they support such goals. It's about WHAT they ALL stand for.

All the hard times we Germans and the whole world has been through in history and the AfD would only make things worse. You can't compare their initial position with that of the other parties. History and the actual wars should change that aspect, don't you think? I'm not scared of them, but I'm humiliated by what they stand for and the people that voted them.

Do you even know what they stand for? I get that every party is a mess at the beginning but Germany is way too advanced in economy, finance and environmental technique to be lead by those idiots. Their points are not just simply weak. They are indeed pointless and go into a direction that wouldn't permit Germany to grow as a strong country.

For example, Germany became bigger economically because of their trades with the other European states. What they want is that Germany should leave the EU.

Another example, Germany has always been a country with many Immigrants.. way before all the asylum seekers came into the country. AfD says that even people born in Germany should have NO right to be German citizens.

So I'm proud to have a Chancellor like Angela Merkel in my country. Her parents are immigrants. And so are mine. I was born in Germany. Why should I value less if all I'm doing is serving this country with big respect and love?

No arguments, just claims and insults. Thanks, you changed my mind and acted very democratic by just calling everything bullshit and calling literally every AfD member and follower racist. Just tell me where the AfD says that people born in Germany have no right to be a German citizen? If THE AfD says it, there must be something in the program or a statement from a top candidate, right? Good night.

 

 

[HiddenWeirdo 4,278]

1 minute ago, benKo said:

No arguments, just claims and insults. Thanks, you changed my mind and acted very democratic by just calling everything bullshit and calling literally every AfD member and follower racist. Just tell me where the AfD says that people born in Germany have no right to be a German citizen? If THE AfD says it, there must be something in the program or a statement from a top candidate, right? Good night.

 

 

Insults? Apart from the ''bullshit'', what was another insult? You voted them, right? That's why you are acting like that. Making them look like their points are not that bad for our country.

Oh man, you should read their program cause it's one of their big program points in there.