Trump sad Confederate statues are coming down

[GypsyVida 5,960]

14 minutes ago, JonathanHolland1 said:

and we actually have an economy with a functioning health care system

Yeah but our trash healthcare system was put into place under Obama. Trump is trying to fix it as we speak. You can't blame a man who's last name is Trump for something called Obamacare. 

[GypsyVida 5,960]

@lego @OliverViennese @Delusional Aura

Why don't you guys respond to me with a statement instead of just excuse me no-ing people when they have an alternate opinion.

Just sayin' 

[August Blue 8,566]

1 minute ago, GypsyVida said:

@lego @OliverViennese @Delusional Aura

Why don't you guys respond to me with a statement instead of just excuse me no-ing people when they have an alternate opinion.

Because you need to catch up

[GypsyVida 5,960]

Just now, August Blue said:

Because you need to catch up

catch up with what may i ask

[Bebe 17,289]

Yeah, if Charlottesville showed us one thing - it's that the people interested in these statues have learned the mistakes of history *eye roll*

The statues were not erected so people could learn from their mistakes, the statues were erected to glorify and celebrate the 'bravery' of men who are traitors to the US and who fought for the right to keep slaves. What 'beautiful' statues of racist men who fought to maintain slavery and white supremacy in the United States! What a shame to rip apart the 'history and culture' of the white supremacists. 

It's so transparent  You can't claim that the statues are there to learn from history and in the same breath discuss how beautiful they are and how they contribute to the greatness of the U.S.

As for his comparison to Washington and Jefferson, I couldn't say it better than Jim Grossman, executive director of the American Historical Association.

"Washington and Jefferson were central to the creation of a nation … Lee and Stonewall were not being honored for those types of accomplishment, they were being honored for creating and defending the Confederacy, which existed for one reason, and that was to protect the right of people to own other people."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/08/16/historians-no-mr-president-washington-and-jefferson-are-not-the-same-as-confederate-generals/?utm_term=.da3be9b720e7

[OliverViennese 1,164]

12 minutes ago, GypsyVida said:

I applaud you. I for one am not a big Trump fan, but I can at least respect the man for the amazing things he's doing for our country. IMO, Obama was a pu$$y when it came to North Korea. He just ignored them for 8 years and then gave the mess to Trump to deal with. Trump doesn't back down. He says it like he means it (www.wendyshow.com ) and he's not afraid to do what it takes to get them to back down.

Another thing (this isn't directed toward you), is how I find it so completely stupid that it's seen as racist to be patriotic these days. Since when did holding the American flag become a symbol of slavery? I'm pretty sure that's the Confederate flag you're talking about sweetie . Also, I don't see it as racist that Trump is upset about the monuments being taken down. Think about it. If we continue to just tear down everything and anything that has to do with the Civil War and/or Confederacy, our kids, our kid's kids won't know what happened in the 1860's. We need to stop making it seem as though it is racist to be patriotic, and start seeing it as a good thing again because otherwise, if we do tear these things down, future generations perhaps will make the same mistake as the people back then made. 

 

4 minutes ago, GypsyVida said:

@lego @OliverViennese @Delusional Aura

Why don't you guys respond to me with a statement instead of just excuse me no-ing people when they have an alternate opinion.

Just sayin' 

Because I don't agree with almost all statements you made - what did you think? 

Spoiler

"Obama was a ***"

Shut up

"Trump doesn't back down"

He changes his mind daily and the idea that he were a strong leader - well he's really just a Putin/Baron puppet, so..

"it's seen as racist to be patriotic these days"

It's not.

"If we continue to just tear down everything and anything that has to do with the Civil War and/or Confederacy, our kids, our kid's kids won't know what happened in the 1860's"

As a german this strikes me as funny. I have never seen statues of Hitler or any of those NS-governmant Nazis. I don't think anyone forgot.. 

 

 

[Morphine Prince 109,983]

23 minutes ago, GypsyVida said:

I applaud you. I for one am not a big Trump fan, but I can at least respect the man for the amazing things he's doing for our country. IMO, Obama was a pu$$y when it came to North Korea. He just ignored them for 8 years and then gave the mess to Trump to deal with. Trump doesn't back down. He says it like he means it (www.wendyshow.com ) and he's not afraid to do what it takes to get them to back down.

Another thing (this isn't directed toward you), is how I find it so completely stupid that it's seen as racist to be patriotic these days. Since when did holding the American flag become a symbol of slavery? I'm pretty sure that's the Confederate flag you're talking about sweetie . Also, I don't see it as racist that Trump is upset about the monuments being taken down. Think about it. If we continue to just tear down everything and anything that has to do with the Civil War and/or Confederacy, our kids, our kid's kids won't know what happened in the 1860's. We need to stop making it seem as though it is racist to be patriotic, and start seeing it as a good thing again because otherwise, if we do tear these things down, future generations perhaps will make the same mistake as the people back then made. 

Maybe your kids won't but my kids will get an education and will learn about the Civil War in their HISTORY BOOKS and museums. 

I don't want my kids to live in a society where traitor un-American Confederates are praised with monuments in our cities. 

They broke away from the USA because they didn't want their economic system built on slavery to be dismantled. They deserve zero praise. 

 

[GypsyVida 5,960]

1 minute ago, OliverViennese said:

As a german this strikes me as funny. I have never seen statues of Hitler or any of those NS-governmant Nazis. I don't think anyone forgot.. 

 What I'm worried about is that if we just take every statue, museum, monument, everything that has to do with slavery, future generations WILL NOT know about it. I'm not saying that definitely the next generation won't, but perhaps 3, 4, or 5 generations from now might not know about what happened here in the 1860's, because it's considered racist to talk about it and learn it. For example, my sister's school has recently discontinued the history unit on the Civil War because it's offensive to black students. Well why don't we take out the lesson on the Revolutionary War too, for it must be offensive to British people. Let's also take out the lesson on the Armenian Genocide, because it's offensive to Armenians and Armenian students. Do you get what I mean? If we try and shield everyone from being offended, and stop teaching these things, then it will without a doubt in my mind happen again. I don't know when, but it will. THAT'S why we cannot take these statues, museums, etc. down. THAT'S why we cannot stop teaching this material in schools. I don't want these statues to stay standing that way we can praise the Confederate leaders, I wan't these statues to stay standing so that future generations can also see how horrible it was for black people in the 19th century US. I wan't these statues to stay standing so that future generations won't do anything like this ever again. 

[GypsyVida 5,960]

10 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

Maybe your kids won't but my kids will get an education and will learn about the Civil War in their HISTORY BOOKS and museums. 

Read this

Just now, GypsyVida said:

my sister's school has recently discontinued the history unit on the Civil War because it's offensive to black students. Well why don't we take out the lesson on the Revolutionary War too, for it must be offensive to British people. Let's also take out the lesson on the Armenian Genocide, because it's offensive to Armenians and Armenian students.

There. Some kids (like my sister) don't even get THAT. What know? Just let them be blind on that issue?

[Liza 618]

1 minute ago, GypsyVida said:

 What I'm worried about is that if we just take every statue, museum, monument, everything that has to do with slavery, future generations WILL NOT know about it. I'm not saying that definitely the next generation won't, but perhaps 3, 4, or 5 generations from now might not know about what happened here in the 1860's, because it's considered racist to talk about it and learn it. For example, my sister's school has recently discontinued the history unit on the Civil War because it's offensive to black students. Well why don't we take out the lesson on the Revolutionary War too, for it must be offensive to British people. Let's also take out the lesson on the Armenian Genocide, because it's offensive to Armenians and Armenian students. Do you get what I mean? If we try and shield everyone from being offended, and stop teaching these things, then it will without a doubt in my mind happen again. I don't know when, but it will. THAT'S why we cannot take these statues, museums, etc. down. THAT'S why we cannot stop teaching this material in schools. I don't want these statues to stay standing that way we can praise the Confederate leaders, I wan't these statues to stay standing so that future generations can also see how horrible it was for black people in the 19th century US. I wan't these statues to stay standing so that future generations won't do anything like this ever again. 

WTF. Are you serious? Was there no controversy about this move?

[Morphine Prince 109,983]

1 minute ago, GypsyVida said:

Read this

There. Some kids (like my sister) don't even get THAT. What know? Just let them be blind on that issue?

now* 

And I don't agree with that and that's not what we were discussing. We were discussing monuments in our cities. 

And I need proof of what you're saying. Please link me to some news story on this. I'd be interested in reading about it. 

[GypsyVida 5,960]

6 minutes ago, Liza said:

WTF. Are you serious? Was there no controversy about this move?

I mean, LOTS of parents were upset, but anything for the sake of no one getting offended, right?

[GypsyVida 5,960]

5 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

now* 

And I don't agree with that and that's not what we were discussing. We were discussing monuments in our cities. 

And I need proof of what you're saying. Please link me to some news story on this. I'd be interested in reading about it. 

There are not news articles about it online as far as I know. But there are similar cases that I can link you to.

Here, this one isn't for the same reasons, but it is similar in the way that they changed curriculum.

There probably aren't any articles about it for my sister's school yet because they are starting it for the 2018-2019 school year.

 

[Jonathanholland 5,429]

23 minutes ago, GypsyVida said:

I applaud you. I for one am not a big Trump fan, but I can at least respect the man for the amazing things he's doing for our country. IMO, Obama was a pu$$y when it came to North Korea. He just ignored them for 8 years and then gave the mess to Trump to deal with. Trump doesn't back down. He says it like he means it (www.wendyshow.com ) and he's not afraid to do what it takes to get them to back down.

Another thing (this isn't directed toward you), is how I find it so completely stupid that it's seen as racist to be patriotic these days. Since when did holding the American flag become a symbol of slavery? I'm pretty sure that's the Confederate flag you're talking about sweetie . Also, I don't see it as racist that Trump is upset about the monuments being taken down. Think about it. If we continue to just tear down everything and anything that has to do with the Civil War and/or Confederacy, our kids, our kid's kids won't know what happened in the 1860's. We need to stop making it seem as though it is racist to be patriotic, and start seeing it as a good thing again because otherwise, if we do tear these things down, future generations perhaps will make the same mistake as the people back then made. 

While I agree the US shouldn't ignore North Korea, Both the bushes and almost all presidents before them didn't do anything about N-Korea either. Trump just uses the hard talk as PR stunt, just as the missles towards Syria. He hasn't done anything to actually SOLVE things. With all due respect, but I really can't understand why many Americans still want all these big talk and action. I mean look at Cuba, Vietnam and Afghanistan. It didn't solve a thing and after these wars/crisis everyone blamed their leader, yet people still love it when Trump threatens North-Korea with Fire and Fury. Obama at least used diplomatics to actually get things solved. He dared to talk about Putin about gay rights, something Trump would never do. 

I understand the mixed feelings about the statues. For comparison here in the Netherlands there have been some discussions about statues from "heroes" of our golden age who made the Netherlands a strong empire. Many people here think these people were actually criminals because they murdered whole populations. While I agree the statues in the Netherlands give a view on perspectives in history,  I think these statues don't tell both perspectives. The difference with the US is that, as I stated in my previous post, these statues only uphold the morals of segregation, which many people still strugle with today. Trump only defending one perspective is wrong in my opinion and adds nothing to the discussion.

[Morphine Prince 109,983]

11 minutes ago, GypsyVida said:

There are not news articles about it online as far as I know. But there are similar cases that I can link you to.

Here, this one isn't for the same reasons, but it is similar in the way that they changed curriculum.

There probably aren't any articles about it for my sister's school yet because they are starting it for the 2018-2019 school year.

 

I am from Texas, I've heard about this. However, here they are watering down the history to the point where it could be inaccurate and downplays racism.