London Tube using gender-neutral greetings

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8 minutes ago, ZeldaJ said:

I'm against it. And I'm saying this as an actual transgender woman. While it's not hurting me directly, it's hurting society in the long run. Postmodernism is a thing.

So as a transgender woman and as a member of the LGBTQ+ community, do you think that there are only two genders? Because if so, we, as a community, need to learn to be more accepting of who we are.

If you're just talking about the pronouns thing. I don't think that it's going to hurt society, in the long run, I mean, it's only going to be more inclusive and even while genderqueer and nonbinary people make up a small percentage of the population, why should we exclude them?

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3 minutes ago, maxblac said:

One example is brains. Men and women have different brains which cause us to behave differently. Obviously not all men are masculine and not all women are feminine-there are exceptions to everything. However, the differences you say are socially constructed such as boys playing with cars and girls playing with dolls are just because of our brains and hormones. I will reiterate, there are exceptions, and that's ok.


If someone identifies as whatever kinda gender other than male and female, they can. That is fine. I won't tell them how to identify because I have my own life and I don't rally care about theirs. That being said, I do not recognise those genders as real because there is no science behind them.

You know it was considered "mental" and an "illness" to be gay though right? It had "science" to back it up, and now the vast majority of people recognize that it isn't a mental illness.

I'm not saying that you're saying that it's a mental illness, but what I'm saying is that this "science" thing that you're proposing doesn't hold up. 

You're saying that boys playing with toy cars and girls playing with dolls are scientific? How? They're toys, they're pieces of plastic molded into a shape of a car or a doll, what's scientific about that?

Guys being broader and generally stronger than women, that's  scientific. Guys having a penis and girls having a vagina is scientific, the fact that most boys play with cars and most girls play with dolls has nothing based on science.

Those are social constructs that mold us into thinking about today's binary gender norms.

Did you know that high heels were worn by men before women? So how do you explain that it's a "girl's thing" to wear high heels today? It's a social construct.

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1 minute ago, M Monstre said:

You know it was considered "mental" and an "illness" to be gay though right? It had "science" to back it up, and now the vast majority of people recognize that it isn't a mental illness.

I'm not saying that you're saying that it's a mental illness, but what I'm saying is that this "science" thing that you're proposing doesn't hold up. 

You're saying that boys playing with toy cars and girls playing with dolls are scientific? How? They're toys, they're pieces of plastic molded into a shape of a car or a doll, what's scientific about that?

Guys being broader and generally stronger than women, that's  scientific. Guys having a penis and girls having a vagina is scientific, the fact that most boys play with cars and most girls play with dolls has nothing based on science.

Those are social constructs that mold us into thinking about today's binary gender norms.

Did you know that high heels were worn by men before women? So how do you explain that it's a "girl's thing" to wear high heels today? It's a social construct.

But I'm not sitting here arguing that fashion isn't a social construct. Fashion is. Men are more masculine, hence the term, than women. Let me use another example-men are more inclined to do jobs that require strength- that's both a neurological and physical thing. As for the gay thing, it's literally not a mental illness. It's just a static opinion. I don't think identifying as whatever gender or not being typically masculine or feminine respectively is a mental illness either. 

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3 minutes ago, maxblac said:

But I'm not sitting here arguing that fashion isn't a social construct. Fashion is. Men are more masculine, hence the term, than women. Let me use another example-men are more inclined to do jobs that require strength- that's both a neurological and physical thing. As for the gay thing, it's literally not a mental illness. It's just a static opinion. I don't think identifying as whatever gender or not being typically masculine or feminine respectively is a mental illness either. 

I'm sorry but at this point, I don't know if you're reading my posts or just skimming through them and picking out the words you want to hear.

 

First, I didn't say that you said that being genderqueer/nonbinary was a mental illness. I was using that argument to show you that it was once "scientific" that being gay was a mental disorder. While science can play a pivotal and crucial role in a lot of things, when you're giving or presenting wrong or contradictory information it does more harm than good in your argument.

I never said that being gay was mental illness, I told you that's what people once believed, and it wasn't even that too long ago. 

Secondly, you were literally arguing that boys playing with toy cars and girls playing with dolls had something to do with how our brain processes stuff. You could easily give a baby girl a toy car and that won't affect her gender whatsoever. 

Men are generally more masculine, and that's why you generally see them doing more masculine jobs, but that has to do with their sex, not their gender identity.

The concept is fairly simple, you can't just use "gender" and "sex" interchangably because they're not the same thing. "Gender" is how you identify yourself, and "sex" is the biological, physical aspects of a person—something you've been arguing this whole time.

 

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10 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

I'm sorry but at this point, I don't know if you're reading my posts or just skimming through them and picking out the words you want to hear.

 

First, I didn't say that you said that being genderqueer/nonbinary was a mental illness. I was using that argument to show you that it was once "scientific" that being gay was a mental disorder. While science can play a pivotal and crucial role in a lot of things, when you're giving or presenting wrong or contradictory information it does more harm than good in your argument.

I understand that you never claimed I think that. I'm aware of that. I just didn't really understand why you Brough being gay up as I didn't really understand the correlation, but ok. 
 

 

12 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

I never said that being gay was mental illness, I told you that's what people once believed, and it wasn't even that too long ago. 

I know, I'm just saying that it literally isn't a mental illness, so anyone saying so is wrong.
 

 

12 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

Secondly, you were literally arguing that boys playing with toy cars and girls playing with dolls had something to do with how our brain processes stuff. You could easily give a baby girl a toy car and that won't affect her gender whatsoever.

I didn't say that giving a girl a car to play with will change her brain or make her trans. I said our brains cause, for example, girls want to play with dolls because girls are generally more creative. I will repeat this, typically. Not always.

 

 

16 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

Men are generally more masculine, and that's why you generally see them doing more masculine jobs, but that has to do with their sex, not their gender identity.

The concept is fairly simple, you can't just use "gender" and "sex" interchangably because they're not the same thing. "Gender" is how you identify yourself, and "sex" is the biological, physical aspects of a person—something you've been arguing this whole time.

 

I thought we've agreed that gender is the differences between men and women. You argued that they were all socially constructed, I argued otherwise. You're saying that all of these reasons are created because of stereotypes, but they're actually caused by our neurology.

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9 minutes ago, maxblac said:

I didn't say that giving a girl a car to play with will change her brain or make her trans. I said our brains cause, for example, girls want to play with dolls because girls are generally more creative. I will repeat this, typically. Not always.

I thought we've agreed that gender is the differences between men and women. You argued that they were all socially constructed, I argued otherwise. You're saying that all of these reasons are created because of stereotypes, but they're actually caused by our neurology.

That's what I'm trying to make out here. Could you give me specifics as to how girls are more inclined to play with dolls? It's because we, as a society, have made it that way. I'm not saying that it's bad, but it's just the facts. You're trying to place this on scientific fact when you've just been saying that "it's because of our brains", well, what specifically about our brains does this? What part of the brain? What does it do? 

Also, I just did a quick Google search, and from what I've found, it says guys are possibly more creative than guys.

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4 hours ago, witchcocktor said:

If you want to make England more comfortable, how about cracking down on the terrorism that seems to be rampant around those parts, hmh?

They've prevented more than 13 attempts since 2013 due to intelligence, they just obviously don't get reported or picked up by the media. I wouldn't call it rampant, it's copy cat attacks. Same with France last year. TfL has no impact on regulating terrorism.. 

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7 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

That's what I'm trying to make out here. Could you give me specifics as to how girls are more inclined to play with dolls? It's because we, as a society, have made it that way. I'm not saying that it's bad, but it's just the facts. You're trying to place this on scientific fact when you've just been saying that "it's because of our brains", well, what specifically about our brains does this? What part of the brain? What does it do? 

Also, I just did a quick Google search, and from what I've found, it says guys are possibly more creative than guys.

http://www.webmd.com/brain/features/how-male-female-brains-differ#1
Please read more than just the first page, but obv take all that's written into thought.

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1 minute ago, maxblac said:

http://www.webmd.com/brain/features/how-male-female-brains-differ#1
Please read more than just the first page, but obv take all that's written into thought.

Well first of all, WebMD is an "iffy" source. Not saying that everything on there is wrong, but it's "iffy".

Secondly though, what does this have to do with gender? This is talking about the physical and biological differences between men and women. This is sex. This is sex. This is not gender. 

It says in the article that it's definitely more common to have "male and female parts" in one brain. So how is there such a "large difference" that you're talking about when the vast, vast majority of brains include "both parts".

Also:

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1 minute ago, M Monstre said:

Well first of all, WebMD is an "iffy" source. Not saying that everything on there is wrong, but it's "iffy".

Secondly though, what does this have to do with gender? This is talking about the physical and biological differences between men and women. This is sex. This is sex. This is not gender. 

It says in the article that it's definitely more common to have "male and female parts" in one brain. So how is there such a "large difference" that you're talking about when the vast, vast majority of brains include "both parts".

Also:

Sex causes gender. The differences between men and women are caused by our neurology and biology.There's a direct correlation.

Also:
' "Our studies are finding significant differences in the brain circuitry of men and women, even when they're doing the same thing: It's like two people driving from Philadelphia to New York, who take different routes, but end up at the same place," says Ragini Verma, PhD, associate professor at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia.

Her team has looked at nearly 2,000 healthy people, including kids, teens, and young adults who took various tests of their mental skills. Differences in their "brain road maps" (scientifically known as "the connectome") can explain why males outperform females on certain tests of mental skills, while females have the edge in others. '




 

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Hilarious that people are applauding this... if you're offended by the words 'ladies and gentlemen' you're mentally ill.

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1 minute ago, maxblac said:

Sex causes gender. The differences between men and women are caused by our neurology and biology.There's a direct correlation.

Also:
' "Our studies are finding significant differences in the brain circuitry of men and women, even when they're doing the same thing: It's like two people driving from Philadelphia to New York, who take different routes, but end up at the same place," says Ragini Verma, PhD, associate professor at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia.

Her team has looked at nearly 2,000 healthy people, including kids, teens, and young adults who took various tests of their mental skills. Differences in their "brain road maps" (scientifically known as "the connectome") can explain why males outperform females on certain tests of mental skills, while females have the edge in others. '




 

There are aspects of someone's sex that can affect their gender. For example, a guy who has a penis and testicles can identify as a guy because of that reasoning. Really, that's how most people operate.

However, it's one aspect out of the larger picture which is that gender is a socially constructed thing. Again, they're two separate things and while they can correlate, one does not cause the other. 

Again, and I don't know when you're going to get this through your head, but those are biological, physical differences. That is sex. Not gender.

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2 minutes ago, Cedric said:

Hilarious that people are applauding this... if you're offended by the words 'ladies and gentlemen' you're mentally ill.

It's "mentally ill" to promote inclusivity? I'm not offended by the words "ladies and gentlemen" and I highly doubt anyone else really is, but this is to promote inclusivity those who are genderfluid/nonbinary.

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2 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

There are aspects of someone's sex that can affect their gender. For example, a guy who has a penis and testicles can identify as a guy because of that reasoning. Really, that's how most people operate.

However, it's one aspect out of the larger picture which is that gender is a socially constructed thing. Again, they're two separate things and while they can correlate, one does not cause the other. 

Again, and I don't know when you're going to get this through your head, but those are biological, physical differences. That is sex. Not gender.

Give me some examples (other than fashion, we've established that) of socially constructed aspects of gender please.

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Just now, maxblac said:

Give me some examples (other than fashion, we've established that) of socially constructed aspects of gender please.

Literally everything that is associated to each gender. For boys, the color blue; playing sports; playing video games; liking comic books; liking race cars. For girls, the color pink; liking dresses and skirts; putting on makeup; liking princesses.

Anything considered to be part of "one gender" are aspects that affect someone's gender identity.