London Tube using gender-neutral greetings

[Blake 7,385]

1 minute ago, maxblac said:

You're literally incorrect but try again.

I'm literally someone who identifies as genderqueer/fluid so please go on and tell me that I have a disorder or a defect or a mental problem.  

I'll relish in your hate.

[FentyGa 14,340]

23 minutes ago, Blake said:

I'm literally someone who identifies as genderqueer/fluid so please go on and tell me that I have a disorder or a defect or a mental problem.  

I'll relish in your hate.

I never said genderfluid/agender/whatever new gender of the week people have mental disorders or defects or disorders. Don't put words in my mouth because I do not appreciate that.

[Emigrante 9,993]

good thing

but just wanted to say that in english it's not that hard to avoid gender-neutral talking since when you're speaking directly to someone, there are no gender describing elements. For comparison, in my language there is no way to do that, cause every verb includes gender annotation. 

[REALITY 80,162]

49 minutes ago, Blake said:

I'm literally someone who identifies as genderqueer/fluid so please go on and tell me that I have a disorder or a defect or a mental problem.  

I'll relish in your hate.

And then he has the nerve to say that there are only two genders 

[REALITY 80,162]

1 hour ago, maxblac said:

Like I said, biological and cultural differences are both part of gender. 
'Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e. the state of being male or female, sex-based social structures (including gender rolesand other social roles), or gender identity.'
Some aspects are culturally constructed, not all. 

Give me an example please, because I'm genuinely curious as to where and how the biological aspects of a person affect gender. 

Something like "broad shoulders" doesn't affect someone's gender. 

Would you be referring to how if you have a penis and testicles you're a guy and if you have a vagina and ovaries, you are a girl? That's your sex. Gender is defined by social and cultural aspects, not whether you have a penis.  

Also, what about the people who don't fit into being either "male" or "female", in terms of their gender. There are many people out there who are legitimately genderqueer/fluid or nonbinary, so what do say to those people? 

Would you say, "Oh well, they just need to pick one cause there are only two genders." To which I would say, again, there are more than two genders, and you're most likely referring to their sex, when in that case, you can be intersex. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

11 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

Give me an example please, because I'm genuinely curious as to where and how the biological aspects of a person affect gender. 

Something like "broad shoulders" doesn't affect someone's gender. 

Would you be referring to how if you have a penis and testicles you're a guy and if you have a vagina and ovaries, you are a girl? That's your sex. Gender is defined by social and cultural aspects, not whether you have a penis.  

Also, what about the people who don't fit into being either "male" or "female", in terms of their gender. There are many people out there who are legitimately genderqueer/fluid or nonbinary, so what do say to those people? 

Would you say, "Oh well, they just need to pick one cause there are only two genders." To which I would say, again, there are more than two genders, and you're most likely referring to their sex, when in that case, you can be intersex. 

But this is over a greeting Its formal to address someone by "Ladies and Gentlemen" 

I dont see why people would be offended by a simple greeting thats used everywhere

[REALITY 80,162]

Just now, Craig Barnes said:

But this is over a greeting Its formal to address someone by "Ladies and Gentlemen" 

I dont see why people would be offended by a simple greeting thats used everywhere

I'm not debating that though. If they want to use that greeting, great, more power to them.

What I'm debating and arguing though is that there are more than two genders.

[StrawberryBlond 15,555]

It won't affect me but it's still unnecessary. I don't know about everyone else but...I don't even notice those announcements. Maybe you notice everything when your gender identity is picked apart but honestly, when I hear "ladies and gentlemen," I feel absolutely nothing. I may as well have heard "everyone." I don't hear the word "ladies" and immediately prick up my ears and think: "Oh, that's me, that's me!" No, I just hear it as an announcement to get everyone's attention. Saying anything after "good morning" isn't even necessary in my mind. Maybe it's because I don't like it when someone uses my name at the end of every sentence. I only use someone's name when I want to get their attention. It's just a basic piece of identification. If I were one of these people, I wouldn't care a jot about this stuff. I'd want to change the stuff that seriously affected me.

At the end of the day, such people make up 0.01% of the world's population. When you don't even make up 1%, you're going to have to get used to the world not always making allowances for you. It's not discriminatory, it's just life. Catering for the vast majority of people is natural. And identifying as gender-less can't even be proven scientifically either. And I find it very telling that it's a concept that we've only just started hearing about. It needs to be studied to work out if it's actually valid or if these people need to check in with a psychiatrist. Because if anyone had walked about years ago saying that they had no gender, they would have been thrown in a mental ward. We're in the process of trying to accept it now because our culture's changed to accomodate to new identities but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't research the validity of these claims. Just because someone says they identify a certain way doesn't make them sane or mean that you should believe them without question. The world becomes a dangerous place when we just say something must be true just because someone says it is.

Now, Piers got a lot of flak for this interview but it's clear that his detractors are just annoyed that he came up with ideas that they had never considered. He asks about the prison issue of not knowing where to put non-binary people...and they said they didn't have an answer to that question. Major red flag there. They were both so nervous, likely not because they were on tv but because they were terrified that he's point out a flaw in their thinking or a problem they hadn't considered. You can tell they have no answer for anything that he asks, which is why they're constantly interrupting him with claims that what he's saying is ridiculous without giving a reason why. And Piers has made in it clear that he supports transgenderism...but only when it comes to gender. He doesn't think people should have any other trans-identity. He said in the supplement video to this a phrase that he became notorious for: "Can I identify as a black woman?" Guess why they wouldn't answer his question? Because he wasn't genuinely identifying this way. Honestly, what back-pedalling. Either they couldn't get the concept of hypothetical questions into their heads or they didn't want to answer it because they realised their response wouldn't be good enough and could land them in deep water with the black community (look at how many of them bashed Rachel Dolezal, the white woman who claims to be black and has changed herself to appear black). I think, until proper scientific research has been done on the whole gender-less claim, we can't treat it too seriously right now. Just like Piers, I'll happily throw my hands up and admit I was wrong if this concept becomes backed by science. But until then, I'll just treat this idea with caution.

9 hours ago, Chic said:

Makes me kinda sad. I like when people say ma'am or miss, it reaffirms my femininity.

I know what you mean. I always feel all warm and fluffy when someone refers to me like this. I remember when a soldier referred to me as "ma'am" once and I was only 24 at the time and I was caught between feeling like a upper class debutante and an old lady! My granny said that when her daughter first brought her boyfriend over, he would always call her "ma'am" and she said it made her feel like the queen because it's just not in our culture to use that term in day-to-day life! It's certain in US Southern culture to use it as a mark of respect and while some people may think it's outdated (and to an extent, it is), I just like the feeling it gives me. Probably because most of the people I know just respond with grunts and I remember in school, certain boys wouldn't even get my attention by name, they'd just weirdly say: "Here..." and it made me feel less than human. To use gender-less language, while it might be approved by the 0.01% of the population who identify that way, to the other 99.9%, it's a highly impersonal, and sometimes even disrespectful, way of communicating with your fellow humans. To be called a person and "they" when it's unnecessary is so impersonal. It makes me feel like an object, not living.

[Fiona Apple 13,006]

Tired with the gender crap

[Fanta 5,019]

This gender mess is getting out of hand. Growing up I simply wanted equality between women and men, and the LGBT community because I thought it stopped at that. Today, everyone is coming up with a new gender concept every single day and it's simply not realistic. I actually think some of these people that identify as one of these new gender identities simply want attention or are going through something. What's up with the label thing? Just do you and stop putting yourself in a box.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Fanta said:

This gender mess is getting out of hand. Growing up I simply wanted equality between women and men, and the LGBT community because I thought it stopped at that. Today, everyone is coming up with a new gender concept every single day and it's simply not realistic. I actually think some of these people that identify as one of these new gender identities simply want attention or are going through something. What's up with the label thing? Just do you and stop putting yourself in a box.

It's kinda funny actually, the same people who are yelling to not put labels on everything, are also making up labels every day.  

[REALITY 80,162]

10 minutes ago, Fanta said:

This gender mess is getting out of hand. Growing up I simply wanted equality between women and men, and the LGBT community because I thought it stopped at that. Today, everyone is coming up with a new gender concept every single day and it's simply not realistic. I actually think some of these people that identify as one of these new gender identities simply want attention or are going through something. What's up with the label thing? Just do you and stop putting yourself in a box.

 

That's precisely what genderqueer/nonbinary want though.

To me, anything besides male, female, genderqueer and nonbinary isn't necessarily valid; however, that's exactly why genderqueer and nonbinary people want things like this. Now, I don't particularly care about this instance. If they want to change the greeting, then that's they're prerogative.

 

[REALITY 80,162]

4 minutes ago, ZeldaJ said:

It's kinda funny actually, the same people who are yelling to not put labels on everything, are also making up labels every day.  

That can be applied to anything. Yeah, the same thing could be said about people of color and women. 

I think it's cool that they're doing this, and it doesn't necessarily affect me personally, but don't just dismiss this.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

That can be applied to anything. Yeah, the same thing could be said about people of color and women. 

I think it's cool that they're doing this, and it doesn't necessarily affect me personally, but don't just dismiss this.

I'm against it. And I'm saying this as an actual transgender woman. While it's not hurting me directly, it's hurting society in the long run. Postmodernism is a thing.

[FentyGa 14,340]

2 hours ago, M Monstre said:

Give me an example please, because I'm genuinely curious as to where and how the biological aspects of a person affect gender. 

Something like "broad shoulders" doesn't affect someone's gender. 

Would you be referring to how if you have a penis and testicles you're a guy and if you have a vagina and ovaries, you are a girl? That's your sex. Gender is defined by social and cultural aspects, not whether you have a penis.  

Also, what about the people who don't fit into being either "male" or "female", in terms of their gender. There are many people out there who are legitimately genderqueer/fluid or nonbinary, so what do say to those people? 

Would you say, "Oh well, they just need to pick one cause there are only two genders." To which I would say, again, there are more than two genders, and you're most likely referring to their sex, when in that case, you can be intersex. 

One example is brains. Men and women have different brains which cause us to behave differently. Obviously not all men are masculine and not all women are feminine-there are exceptions to everything. However, the differences you say are socially constructed such as boys playing with cars and girls playing with dolls are just because of our brains and hormones. I will reiterate, there are exceptions, and that's ok.


If someone identifies as whatever kinda gender other than male and female, they can. That is fine. I won't tell them how to identify because I have my own life and I don't rally care about theirs. That being said, I do not recognise those genders as real because there is no science behind them.