Ghost in the Shell Film will cost co. $60 million in debt

[Edonis 28,950]

6 minutes ago, Phlop said:

I haven't seen it yet but the promotion for it was messy. I totally didn't realize that movie was coming out until 2 weeks before. Other movies released this month had months of hype (B&B, PowerRangers, BossBaby, etc). 

Also in its planning stages it got a lot of bad press for the whitewashing. It should have had an Asian cast because then it would've been more supported by ethnic groups, the anime community and would have gotten a nod from Hollywood. If any movie were to break that mold, it should have been this one. 

I agree with the promotion aspects. This was probably one of the worst promoted movies in a while; I didn't realize it was coming out until a few weeks prior. 

I don't necessarily think an all Asian cast would be necessary (some characters were of different races and ethnicities in the original source material) but I do think the major should've stayed Japanese. I don't get the exact reasoning to cast a white woman and then make it into a "Japanese soul in a white woman's body" route. Eh. I think it was kind of doomed from the start. 

[StrawberryBlond 14,898]

I've not seen it and wasn't even aware of it beforehand, so I'm not talking from experience here. But I think there was more to it than just a whitewashing scandal. It was a very old anime, it first began in 1989. There was already an anime adaption in 1995. So, all this time later, why the need for a live action version? Who would have thought this was a remotely good idea. I've seen Hollywood make this mistake before. They made a movie out of the Vampire Academy series despite the book series ending just over 3 years ago and that film was an epic flop. It stands to reason that to base a movie off of a series that ended is going to pose some problems, but to not promote it well enough beforehand is an even bigger mistake. Part of the reason why the Harry Potter and Twilight series were so big was because they capitalised on the success at the time, when the books were still being published. If they had only been made into movies now, there would be nowhere near the same level of success. Hollywood has learned a bit but they don't always get a right. Anime doesn't exactly require a live action adaption anyway. Anime is anime for a reason and live action just doesn't translate well.

But in regards to the whitewashing thing, while, yes, I understand why some people were annoyed by it but notice how any justifications of it being down to commercial reasons of wanting a known name to lead it were dismissed? Yet, when white fictional characters races change, white people are just supposed to suck it up and anyone who has a problem is a racist? Double standards, much? Apparently, white characters can be changed however we see fit, their race can even be considered 'ambiguous,' and they can be changed purely as an excuse to get a role for a minority. But in reverse...it's racist? Huh? When a black woman got the role of Hermione in the stage play of the new Harry Potter spin-off, the decision was widely criticised by fans of the series. They were met with racism accusations including those from JK Rowling herself who even went so far as to say that she never made it clear that Hermione was white, that was just our interpretation. This is nonsense as there are actually segments of the book that definitely point to her being white and considering that Jo insisted on having a say in who was cast in the roles for the movies, the fact she picked a white girl to play Hermione confirms that Hermione is indeed white. It's like, it's not a crime to make a character white! Whites have just as a much a right to visibility as other races, not less! And while, yes, there were complaints that did sound racist, most of them were completely rational and some even additionally complained about the fact that the actor playing Ron didn't have red hair when that was a major character trait up until now. But that, apparently, did not even warrant an explanation, only complaints over a change in race are valid. And also, race doesn't play a role when we're talking about voices of animals, either. The live action Jungle Book had barely any Indians voicing any of the characters, they were instead taken by mainly white and black actors. Not a single complaint was made about that, which honestly surprised me. And let's not even get started on how having a white cast in a historical drama in line with historical accuracy is frowned upon...yet when a historical drama is made involving a non-white race, historical accuracy is considered of paramount importance.

It just bugs me that whites are always seen as the bad guys in this situation. And that they just have to accept whatever racial changes are made to white characters yet minorities are allowed to complain as much as they want over any white-washing. Ending racism involves making things equal, not better for one race over the other. If white-washing is bad, then doing the same in reverse for any white characters should be seen as equally bad. Yes, there are a lack of roles for minorities in Hollywood but the solution is to make original movies casting for minorities in mind, not changing the race of existing white characters who have already been established as white.

[Gardevoir 9,867]

14 hours ago, Edonis said:

I just googled her. She's stunning 

But I really don't get why they didn't cast an Japanese woman for the lead (or at least and East Asian woman). I get that they wanted traction with ScarJo bringing in an audience but still. It didn't work out tbh 

Because Asian people are not so eatable as Scarlet Johansson, and that's sad truth. It's all about commercial success. 

[junolxf 8,654]

Good. It's what they deserve for not listening. 

[Edonis 28,950]

7 minutes ago, Emigrante said:

Because Asian people are not so eatable as Scarlet Johansson, and that's sad truth. It's all about commercial success. 

But it's not commercially successful so far 

At least not domestically. 

[brownie 5]

I'm as liberal as they come AND I want to write / direct and currently work in the film industry: and this makes me mad. And not because I agree with it. 

Look, the creator of the anime thought Scarlett was a perfect choice. The Japanese audiences love her and had no issues with her not being Japanese. The WHOLE point of the character is that she's a "shell" stripped of who she really is anyways. Also, this movie would never have been made / released without an international star -- this is an international movie. 

And NO ONE had a problem with Scarlett being cast but America. Seriously, not a single other country focused their press on this. Russia, UK, Australia, Japan -- none of them cried "AHHHH WHITEWASHING!" This truly was a case of just America choosing to waste time being offended over this instead of the trillion other better things to worry about. PC culture like this is slowly ruining the film industry. 

TLDR: That an entire film can fail cause non-asians got offended that another non-asian plays a typically asian role when the asians who gave her the role itself were fine with it -- is ridiculous. 

[Gardevoir 9,867]

Just now, Edonis said:

But it's not commercially successful so far 

At least not domestically. 

well but that's what they were aiming for. And movie is only out for week. So I wouldn't come into that conclusion, cause it still has the time to grow. 

[brownie 5]

2 minutes ago, Emigrante said:

well but that's what they were aiming for. And movie is only out for week. So I wouldn't come into that conclusion, cause it still has the time to grow. 

Sadly, opening weekends make or break a film now. The film will disappear in the next couple of weeks. 

[brownie 5]

3 hours ago, Edonis said:

I agree with the promotion aspects. This was probably one of the worst promoted movies in a while; I didn't realize it was coming out until a few weeks prior. 

I don't necessarily think an all Asian cast would be necessary (some characters were of different races and ethnicities in the original source material) but I do think the major should've stayed Japanese. I don't get the exact reasoning to cast a white woman and then make it into a "Japanese soul in a white woman's body" route. Eh. I think it was kind of doomed from the start. 

I know it seems strange ethically, but this movie would literally never have been made without a 'bankable star'. Scarlett is known and loved internationally, and to make a movie of this kind you need a budget with international support. 

The irony here is that if they'd cast an asian lead American audiences STILL would not have seen it (they've proven they don't watch many movies with minorities as a lead, Get Out being a shining exception) and the movie would have bombed internationally cause many international audiences simply reject asian leads in the first place. 

[Edonis 28,950]

Just now, brownie said:

I'm as liberal as they come AND I want to write / direct and currently work in the film industry: and this makes me mad. And not because I agree with it. 

Look, the creator of the anime thought Scarlett was a perfect choice. The Japanese audiences love her and had no issues with her not being Japanese. The WHOLE point of the character is that she's a "shell" stripped of who she really is anyways. Also, this movie would never have been made / released without an international star -- this is an international movie. 

And NO ONE had a problem with Scarlett being cast but America. Seriously, not a single other country focused their press on this. This truly was a case of just America choosing to waste time being offended over this instead of the trillion of better things to worry about. PC culture like this is slowly ruining the film industry. 

Okay so there's an article published recently that had Japanese women watch the movie and their reaction to it. They didn't have that big of an issue with Scarlett being cast; however they felt awkward after finishing the film. I'm spoiling the movie so I apologize if you want to watch it (stop reading now ) but:

The film Americanized the Major. Which was fine; they made her a white "woman" she's an android, but managed to make the race issue nonexistent at the start of the movie. But there was a twist where her soul was actually a Japanese woman, she had a Japanese mother, etc. they meet and have this really shallow, unrealistic approach to garner sympathy with viewers but instead, made some Japanese people uncomfortable. It made me think of Rachel Dolezal quite frankly. And the biggest issue isn't even the twist, it's how they handled that subject. Should they go the route of having another human of a different race impacting her "soul" perhaps the directors could've focused on a mental crisis for the major, making her appear more human by understanding the more psychological side of what makes us human (which is really what the original manga and movie discussed), etc. Instead, the character nonchalantly accepted the fact that she isn't actually white and basically moved on. It was weird. And the focus of the film being just action wasn't GitS at all. There was no need to go that route and make such a shallow, dumb downed thing that was, weird. There was so much possibility with the given source material even if Americanized. 

[Edonis 28,950]

7 minutes ago, Emigrante said:

well but that's what they were aiming for. And movie is only out for week. So I wouldn't come into that conclusion, cause it still has the time to grow. 

True, China and Japan are a huge market for the film. We shall see. 

[Edonis 28,950]

1 minute ago, brownie said:

I know it seems strange ethically, but this movie would literally never have been made without a 'bankable star'. Scarlett is known and loved internationally, and to make a movie of this kind you need a budget with international support. 

The irony here is that if they'd cast an asian lead American audiences STILL would not have seen it (they've proven they don't watch many movies with minorities as a lead, Get Out being a shining exception) and the movie would have bombed internationally cause many international audiences simply reject asian leads in the first place. 

I agree with most of your statement but saying it would bomb internationally with an Asian lead would just be untrue. Maybe in Europe (however the movie is basically a nonevent there) but China and Japan (the biggest market for a live action adaption) would be fine I think. But I do agree with everything else. I just don't get why GitS was their first choice for a live action movie lol. 

[brownie 5]

3 minutes ago, Edonis said:

Okay so there's an article published recently that had Japanese women watch the movie and their reaction to it. They didn't have that big of an issue with Scarlett being cast; however they felt awkward after finishing the film. I'm spoiling the movie so I apologize if you want to watch it (stop reading now ) but:

The film Americanized the Major. Which was fine; they made her a white "woman" she's an android, but managed to make the race issue nonexistent at the start of the movie. But there was a twist where her soul was actually a Japanese woman, she had a Japanese mother, etc. they meet and have this really shallow, unrealistic approach to garner sympathy with viewers but instead, made some Japanese people uncomfortable. It made me think of Rachel Dolezal quite frankly. And the biggest issue isn't even the twist, it's how they handled that subject. Should they go the route of having another human of a different race impacting her "soul" perhaps the directors could've focused on a mental crisis for the major, making her appear more human by understanding the more psychological side of what makes us human (which is really what the original manga and movie discussed), etc. Instead, the character nonchalantly accepted the fact that she isn't actually white and basically moved on. It was weird. And the focus of the film being just action wasn't GitS at all. There was no need to go that route and make such a shallow, dumb downed thing that was, weird. There was so much possibility with the given source material even if Americanized. 

That makes sense-- in all honesty I have NOT seen the film but am going sunday morning! Just have not had a moment to go see it. But I really do work in the industry am was genuinely surprised to see so many film people bothered by this. I know the twist and it doesn't bother me much -- I fully understand why Scarlett was cast from a producer's POV. 

That being said...I can see how that ending as it plays out can be uncomfortable post-twist. The whole "the major is really the original character" is fine, but if she meets her Japanese mother and all (which I didn't know about), I can see how the writing can bother some. 

[Edonis 28,950]

Just now, brownie said:

That makes sense-- in all honesty I have NOT seen the film but am going sunday morning! Just have not had a moment to go see it. But I really do work in the industry am was genuinely surprised to see so many film people bothered by this. I know the twist and it doesn't bother me much -- I fully understand why Scarlett was cast from a producer's POV. 

That being said...I can see how that ending as it plays out can be uncomfortable. 

Yeah I encourage to see it regardless. It's not an awful film it's just, I dunno. Weird is the vibe I'm getting lol. 

[brownie 5]

Just now, Edonis said:

Yeah I encourage to see it regardless. It's not an awful film it's just, I dunno. Weird is the vibe I'm getting lol. 

My main concern as someone who wants to direct -- that the media can just DESTROY a movie with negative press like this -- over ONE ASPECT of the movie! It's crazy.